/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I played MD on a 70 player rev round on Ministation with no Chemist.
With just one sleeper, one cryotube, a cloner, and like half the chems a normal station would have, we did a pretty alright job keeping the station... vaguely alive.
This probably shouldn't be possible.

MisterPerson wrote:Encouraging people to run at their attacker like that is good though. It's more fun than just "oh well you got shot, you're dead".

for once i have to agree with misterperson

MisterPerson wrote:Encouraging people to run at their attacker like that is good though. It's more fun than just "oh well you got shot, you're dead".

It also means there's next to no risk or danger - you can be shot to pieces and 1 styptic patch will fully heal you from crit.

iamgoofball wrote:Do you honestly think that "make it more difficult just because" is a good way to go about things?

Hey, there's that absolutism! Either we never increase the difficulty or complexity of anything, or we "make it more difficult just because". Nobody has an actual reason for wanting to make changes.

Do you even fucking PLAY medical?

On other servers, it's one of my favorite jobs, because there's almost always stuff to do, and unlike most of the other jobs it heats up as the round progresses.

On this server, I try, and give up in frustration around the fifth time someone runs past me and jumps in a cryo tube. We don't HAVE medical. We have "medbay doormen", until someone inevitably breaks the door down halfway through the round.

There's a pattern that's been repeated in a bunch of areas: every time someone trips over some feature of the game mechanics and cries about it, we sand it down, until we have no mechanics left. Some people found it inconvenient that you can't get out of a cryo tube while inside, so we let you eject yourself. (Now doctors don't need to monitor people in cryo, cause they'll let themselves out.) Then it was inconvenient that the doctor can forget to turn the tube on, so we make it turn on automatically when there's someone inside. Then it's inconvenient that you need someone to close the door, so we fix that. Now you don't need the doctor at all; the self-service healing booth does it all. I'm sure at some point someone will propose that it not run out of drugs, "because sleepers don't".

What this does is leave everyone with nothing to do but (1) be antagonists, (2) fight antagonists, or (3) grief.

if people are healing themselves what I like to do is pump them full of fucking morphine until they pass out, treat them, then cuffbuckle their unconscious body, muzzle it, put a blindfold on them, and put earmuffs on them and then cart them around the station announcing to everyone there's a free ez kill

I really hope you don't actually do that when i'm online.

is ic issue :^)

To me, it seems like a very simple fix for this problem (and by "simple," I mean not requiring a full med revamp (but that should be happening at some point too)) is to simply make sleepers and chemistry have limited resources. Make it so that every time a chemical is dispensed or drug administered, it pulls from a total resource pool for those machines. Once the resources are exhausted, no more drugs or chems until they are restocked, which can utilize refill cartridges similar to how vending machines currently are stocked. Balance on this would have to be fairly fine tuned so as to ensure that sleepers are still seen as viable despite their slightly longer time to treat damage by making them still more resource efficient than your standard medkit fare. Beyond that though, you still get your scarcity without your average crew member being held up in medbay all day because treatment takes forever. It would simply mean that medbay would have to rely more heavily on other departments like cargo (for brand-new resources) and science (perhaps for replenishing old resource cartridges using other non-renewable resources available) for continued operation throughout the round.

Ideally, this station should be internally interdependent to the point where people have vested interest in saving parts of the station that aren't the 20 tiles surrounding their workspace. Scarcity should be a looming threat for those who would waste resources or fail to protect supply/production lines, and having that scarcity effect medbay gives potentially deadly consequences to such deterioration that would otherwise simply halt work progress.

John_Oxford wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:

TheNightingale wrote:

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:The only "healing" nerf should be making defibs CMO only.

High-level R&D too, perhaps? Endgame medical gear is a little lacking (NVMedHUD and synthflesh, really).

We had that at first, IIRC, but R&D would mass-produce defibs / assistants would break in and print them, and suddenly death held no fear

Thats generally what end-game is.

One or more of the following has happened during the course of the round, and it has entered a end-game stage:

1. All the antagonists have been killed
2. The shuttle consoles have been rendered in accessable through normal means
3. The entire crew is dead due to antagonists
4. The station has been split into a gang of roving merchant survivalists and a hive of xenomorphs
5. Power has shut off, rioting occured, space law is no longer in effect and it essentially becomes a "Your own your own, do what you need to do" scenario
6. Security goes full on hitler mode with the support of admins, becomes security vs crew
7. The round type is extended, RnD does their job, everyone carrys around pulse rifles and rides in fully equipped durands
8. The round type is extended, admins are hosting a event very late into the round, everyone adapts to all the shit thats gone on during the round
*. Have you ever seen a station with a 60 hour round time? Bullet casings everywhere, everythings ripped off the floors, theres holes in the wall, dead corpses everywhere, ect ect.
*2. Go onto the main byond hub, and scroll to the very bottom of the list, All of those russian servers havent been restarted in easily a year, join up and see what it looks like.

You forgot the one where everything goes perfectly, the antags are annihilated at instantly and the crew decks the station out in rare materials for hours before someone ignites a plasma floor.

Douk wrote:To me, it seems like a very simple fix for this problem (and by "simple," I mean not requiring a full med revamp (but that should be happening at some point too)) is to simply make sleepers and chemistry have limited resources. Make it so that every time a chemical is dispensed or drug administered, it pulls from a total resource pool for those machines.

I'm really fine with the chemical dispensers being unlimited (except plasma, because that just defies logic). We don't want to discourage chemists from experimenting and making mistakes or making too much of the "wrong" drug. The sleepers should have to get stocked with drugs from chemistry, like how cryo works.

They can start out loaded with some basic healing chems (again like cryo), and maybe they can have a central drug dispenser in the room that they're all plugged into, but they should need to be monitored and refilled manually. Like, the drug dispenser has ten ports. You can plug a bottle into a port and each sleeper will have a button that dispenses from that bottle.

I'd rather they not have refill cartridges, because this means you don't have to (and can't) make decisions about what to stock. You could instead order drug packages from cargo, which would contain bottles of the same stuff that the sleeper was stocked with.

If you still want more interdepartmental cooperation, hey, we could always move chemistry over to the science department.

if medical needs any sort of nerf its to the ability to take things right out of medkits in there pack its not a big deal usualy but its a huge buff in blob to be able to juggle medical items so easily without having to drop your defib at all

rockpecker wrote:

Douk wrote:To me, it seems like a very simple fix for this problem (and by "simple," I mean not requiring a full med revamp (but that should be happening at some point too)) is to simply make sleepers and chemistry have limited resources. Make it so that every time a chemical is dispensed or drug administered, it pulls from a total resource pool for those machines.

I'm really fine with the chemical dispensers being unlimited (except plasma, because that just defies logic). We don't want to discourage chemists from experimenting and making mistakes or making too much of the "wrong" drug. The sleepers should have to get stocked with drugs from chemistry, like how cryo works.

They can start out loaded with some basic healing chems (again like cryo), and maybe they can have a central drug dispenser in the room that they're all plugged into, but they should need to be monitored and refilled manually. Like, the drug dispenser has ten ports. You can plug a bottle into a port and each sleeper will have a button that dispenses from that bottle.

I'd rather they not have refill cartridges, because this means you don't have to (and can't) make decisions about what to stock. You could instead order drug packages from cargo, which would contain bottles of the same stuff that the sleeper was stocked with.

If you still want more interdepartmental cooperation, hey, we could always move chemistry over to the science department.

this is fucking stupid because the sleepers get new chems already from being upgraded by r&d or they WOULD if R&D ever did anything beyond making themselves mechs and bombing the station.

Super Aggro Crag wrote: this is fucking stupid because the sleepers get new chems already from being upgraded by r&d or they WOULD if R&D ever did anything beyond making themselves mechs and bombing the station.

Yes, they do. They shouldn't.

DaemonBomb wrote:I played MD on a 70 player rev round on Ministation with no Chemist.
With just one sleeper, one cryotube, a cloner, and like half the chems a normal station would have, we did a pretty alright job keeping the station... vaguely alive.
This probably shouldn't be possible.

One sleeper can heal infinite brute and burn and the rest of the damage types basically never happen or can be healed by sitting them in a room that contains air.

rockpecker wrote:

Super Aggro Crag wrote: this is fucking stupid because the sleepers get new chems already from being upgraded by r&d or they WOULD if R&D ever did anything beyond making themselves mechs and bombing the station.

Yes, they do. They shouldn't.

so remove the R&D department because you're mad chemistry doesn't get enough work to do? Do you think they'd really make chemicals to heal people when 99 percent of chemists make a glass of mannitol and then proceed to hop over to the wiki and start trying out all the retarded explosives, narcotics, and poisons goofball decided we needed because healing 1 tick of damage every 3 minutes was OP as fuck? This wouldn't result in Chemists doing their job more, it'd result in more people smashing the windows into chemistry and trying to do it themselves and people slaughtering each other over a stocked medkit. The playerbase.

best be carefull mentioning goofchem misterperson might delete your post for being off topic.

On the topic at hand cryo could be made to go through chems faster but then your fucked if you lack a chemist.

Sleeper should definintly keep its ability to make its own chems.

I think its fine for medbay to be able to heal things easily the true test of the doctors skill is in the field against the blob within the medbay its a people managment job juggling 10 people needing healing in a crysis no other job is intense outside of emergencys why should medical be.

Buff spears so medbay is needed to get them out safely they should bleed more when removed not less.

Making triage more important, huh? Well, it might make people rely on their doctors more (ie. not even powergamers can be as medically robust as a fully kitted-out doctor).

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Do you think they'd really make chemicals to heal people when 99 percent of chemists make a glass of mannitol and then proceed to hop over to the wiki and start trying out all the retarded explosives, narcotics, and poisons goofball decided we needed

I'm sorry that I gave chemists something fun to do other than make 50u DD pills for 10 minutes and then log out.

Also, considering the fact that every single time I've entered the medbay and checked out the CHEMIST-STOCKED med vendor it was full of all the medicine I'd ever need, I'd say you're pulling shit out of your ass at this point.

because healing 1 tick of damage every 3 minutes was OP as fuck?

Sorry, where the fuck did you get your numbers? I'd like some evidence.

As opposed to goof chem, where one patch of styptic + silver sulf will INSTANTLY heal a metric assload of burn and brute (toxin only being relevent 1% of the time), + a load of heal over time shit after?
Yeah, cool.

Yeah, let's cool it with the name calling.

its not name calling its people talking about healing chems in a thread about fucking healing chems.