Make megafauna spawns have a minimum distance

[Togopal]

Subject is self explanatory

Make megafauna have a minimum distance away from the mining base

If there is something that already does this, it needs to be expanded, because I was killed by a colossus right after stepping outside at the beginning of a round

[Lazengann]

rekt

[Togopal]

rekt

Fuck you shitty admin

[Qbopper]

thank you for actually posting the thread

I don't see any issues with this and it would likely be good for newer players (along with the more unrobust of us) to not be instantly murdered by something they didn't necessarily know about

[ShadowDimentio]

(along with the more unrobust of us)

FILTHY CASUALS GET OUT OF MY SPACEMEN REEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Togopal]

Change megafauna to everything hostile to mining including tendrils

[Grazyn]

It's not frequent enough to warrant a change and you can always use the aux mining station to restart mining operations in a different place

[cedarbridge]

It's not frequent enough to warrant a change and you can always use the aux mining station to restart mining operations in a different place

Happens staggeringly frequently. The real problem is that there's no way to get explorer suits if a jugg/megafauna is sitting on top of them and hulksmashes the place before you can gear up.

[Grazyn]

Explorer suits can be ordered at cargo and you don't even need them to mine.

[XDTM]

Why keep a ~5-10% chance of your job being fucked until someone sets up the aux base + losing the suits, which while not vital do hold an oxy tank and resist damage pretty well. Just because you can get around it, it doesn't mean you should be expected just because rng rolled against you.

[kevinz000]

Why keep a ~5-10% chance of your job being fucked until someone sets up the aux base + losing the suits, which while not vital do hold an oxy tank and resist damage pretty well. Just because you can get around it, it doesn't mean you should be expected just because rng rolled against you.

Welcome to the game of rng.

[D&B]

Use the fucking GPS cyka blyat.

If you need to get out but the main door is blocked just break the window of the coin maker room.

Also this doesn't even happen in 10% of rounds, nor 6. Where the fuck are you getting that number from.

[cedarbridge]

Also this doesn't even happen in 10% of rounds, nor 6. Where the fuck are you getting that number from.

It shouldn't be happening at all. That's the point.

[D&B]

Does it really happen though.

I have gotten the occasional watcher or goliath on top of the station suit storage but never have I seen that megafauna spawned there. They made the claim that this happens scarcely often, so I want to know where this info is coming from.

If you're speaking out of your ass, then why are we fixing something that ain't broke?

[cedarbridge]

Does it really happen though.

I have gotten the occasional watcher or goliath on top of the station suit storage but never have I seen that megafauna spawned there. They made the claim that this happens scarcely often, so I want to know where this info is coming from.

If you're speaking out of your ass, then why are we fixing something that ain't broke?

I got an ahelp last night complaining about a goliath that had spawned literally right next to the suit storages, knocked down both miners attempting to suit up, and smashed all of the doors leading to the main base in the process of putting one of the miners into crit from the knockdown. We had another round at a different time where a drake had spawned outside the door and bubblegum spawned a few yards east of that. This was a little less annoying but it did keep the miners stuck and buttoned into the base until about half the lowpop station could be convinced to come down and fight it off.

The real question for detractors is, why are you fighting this? What emergent and interesting gameplay is added by having megafauna and hostile mob spawns so close to the base that the place is wrecked almost instantly? This is especially true since 1) hardly anyone ever goes to mining to look for lost miners 2) megafauna don't stop until they gib or dust you. The "sorry kiddo you lost your round to roundstart RNG" thing is just a cop out to gain what? Some sort of hateboner for miners?

[onleavedontatme]

why are you fighting this?

Because there is a segment of the gaming population that enjoys things being difficult and even unfair to a masochistic degree, and those players see any attempt to make lavaland easier as the slippery slope to the mundane and safe station where every sort of PVE challenge or danger has been completely eroded by "quality of life" changes. They appreciate the "get fucked" learning curve because they feel accomplished when they learn and get past it the next time.

If a Goliath gets in the base stab it with your knife until it dies.

[D&B]

Does it really happen though.

I have gotten the occasional watcher or goliath on top of the station suit storage but never have I seen that megafauna spawned there. They made the claim that this happens scarcely often, so I want to know where this info is coming from.

If you're speaking out of your ass, then why are we fixing something that ain't broke?

I got an ahelp last night complaining about a goliath that had spawned literally right next to the suit storages, knocked down both miners attempting to suit up, and smashed all of the doors leading to the main base in the process of putting one of the miners into crit from the knockdown. We had another round at a different time where a drake had spawned outside the door and bubblegum spawned a few yards east of that. This was a little less annoying but it did keep the miners stuck and buttoned into the base until about half the lowpop station could be convinced to come down and fight it off.

The real question for detractors is, why are you fighting this? What emergent and interesting gameplay is added by having megafauna and hostile mob spawns so close to the base that the place is wrecked almost instantly? This is especially true since 1) hardly anyone ever goes to mining to look for lost miners 2) megafauna don't stop until they gib or dust you. The "sorry kiddo you lost your round to roundstart RNG" thing is just a cop out to gain what? Some sort of hateboner for miners?

1. A goliath getting into base is the easiest shit ever to deal with, since you can just basically stab it to death (and there's two miners here that should have been stabbing) and heal with the medkit that the mining base has. If you choose the role that has the highest permanent death rate, why are you complaining about the lowest monsters fighting you in your home turf?

2. There are these magical things called a GPS. The reason you get 4 provided at roundstart in the mining base is because A. It lets your body be found if you die B. Tells you the location of nearby megafauna. You don't even need to use the main door since the window in the coin maker room can be smashed and provide another venue of entrance/exiting. Confrontation is not necessary since you're well able to avoid the monsters by making another entrance and checking the GPS to avoid them.

What is emergent and interesting about bubblewrapping everything and making sure nobody gets hurt or die? Why do we even care if people die if death is so meaningless now? We have a shitload of ghost roles and jobs that get free and easy ways to bring back people into the round. What is so bad about letting people learn how to avoid or deal with danger?

There's two easy ways to avoid dying early:

1. Don't pick shaft miner (AKA the role with the highest death rate*)
2. Be aware of your surroundings

We should not change the game, nor should we push to hand hold the hands of players that can prevent their deaths, but choose not to. It'll only lead to a duller experience and a less enjoyable overall round. Fuck, mining shot up its lethality when it swapped to lavaland, but its popularity shot up as well.

[cedarbridge]

What is emergent and interesting about bubblewrapping everything and making sure nobody gets hurt or die? Why do we even care if people die if death is so meaningless now? We have a shitload of ghost roles and jobs that get free and easy ways to bring back people into the round. What is so bad about letting people learn how to avoid or deal with danger?

This is called a strawman. Its bad, you should avoid using them.

Megafauna getting in and smashing up the base is shitty for all involved and just makes the experience of playing the role less enjoyable. Its not a question of "bubblewrapping" the job. Its a matter of "should I be dying before I've actually had the chance to put on my roundstart gear?" Really, the answer to that should be no. As you say, and from my own experiences, the role itself is already lethal enough after you've left the base. I mean, you can call this hugboxing all you want, but I don't see much difference in this "the game should be unfair for unfairness' sake" mentality between spawning drakes and bubblegums right outside the suit storage area and starting the SM engine at 70% instability because "Its supposed to be hard." There's no reason for the base itself to be an immediate threat.

As I understand it as well, the megafauna are intended as boss encounters of sorts. There's little thematic reason for one to be camping right outside the base if that's their intended purpose.

You're also trying to imply that shaft miner became more popular because of its increased lethality and not because 1) roid mining was slow as balls because moving in a hardsuit in a vaccum sucked 2) the rewards are a million times better 3) tools for mining have improved a lot making it easier to do more in less time 4)golliaths don't instantly GG you if you pick the wrong cardinal direction anymore.

[Lazengann]

Tbh Cedar I consider a drake spawning right by the outpost a stroke of luck, they're really easy to kill and getting the drake armor that early is great.

[Grazyn]

What is emergent and interesting about bubblewrapping everything and making sure nobody gets hurt or die? Why do we even care if people die if death is so meaningless now? We have a shitload of ghost roles and jobs that get free and easy ways to bring back people into the round. What is so bad about letting people learn how to avoid or deal with danger?

This is called a strawman. Its bad, you should avoid using them.

Megafauna getting in and smashing up the base is shitty for all involved and just makes the experience of playing the role less enjoyable. Its not a question of "bubblewrapping" the job. Its a matter of "should I be dying before I've actually had the chance to put on my roundstart gear?" Really, the answer to that should be no. As you say, and from my own experiences, the role itself is already lethal enough after you've left the base. I mean, you can call this hugboxing all you want, but I don't see much difference in this "the game should be unfair for unfairness' sake" mentality between spawning drakes and bubblegums right outside the suit storage area and starting the SM engine at 70% instability because "Its supposed to be hard." There's no reason for the base itself to be an immediate threat.

As I understand it as well, the megafauna are intended as boss encounters of sorts. There's little thematic reason for one to be camping right outside the base if that's their intended purpose.

You're also trying to imply that shaft miner became more popular because of its increased lethality and not because 1) roid mining was slow as balls because moving in a hardsuit in a vaccum sucked 2) the rewards are a million times better 3) tools for mining have improved a lot making it easier to do more in less time 4)golliaths don't instantly GG you if you pick the wrong cardinal direction anymore.

It's the textbook definition of emergent gameplay, the issue is that when megafauna spawns next to the station miners usually just run around like headless chickens or try to fight it (!!!) inside the outpost (!!!) so they obviosuly die.
I write it off as "things you do once and learn not to do for the next time", I don't want to turn this into spoonfeeding central but really all you have to do to is
>notice megafauna is next to mining EVA
>stop whatever you're doing and focus only on running back to the shuttle because your life isn't worth any amount of equipment
>return to station
>optional: if megafauna is a dragon, ask if there is an experienced dragon slayer willing to help (there usually is at least one)
>ask sec to let you back to mining via gulag
>dig a tunnel and go far enough from the gulag to leave the ore scarcity zone
>drop the aux base beacon and shuttle beacon
>drop the aux base
>optional: mine enough ore to buy your explorer suit back from cargo
>restart mining operations

The funny thing is, miners already do this when megafauna spawns close enough and wreck the station, so it really is only an issue of learning and adapting

[Screemonster]

We don't allow players to spawnkill so why should megafauna be allowed to?

They don't have to be moved away far, just an exclusion zone that's basically megafauna sight radius from the base. If you take long enough to gear up that one of them wanders in from outside this zone then tough shit.

[Grazyn]

Miners don't spawn in mining EVA do they? And megafauna don't spawn inside the outpost either. You will always have enough time to run back to the station and do the auxiliary base thing if the beast aggroes (unless it's a colossus and it hits you with its shotgun blast but then again, edge case and not guaranteed death either). If it's just blocking the exit, you can usually just break down a wall/window on the south side and go mining through there. Seen that happen too.

Problem with exclusion zone is that it would end up interfering with ruins, which can also spawn near the outpost. So the beast would either end up inside the ruin, thus basically being removed as a threat, or moved further away if the ruin is megafauna spawn-blocked too (I don't really know if they all are or just some of them)

[Jacough]

why are you fighting this?

Because there is a segment of the gaming population that enjoys things being difficult and even unfair to a masochistic degree, and those players see any attempt to make lavaland easier as the slippery slope to the mundane and safe station where every sort of PVE challenge or danger has been completely eroded by "quality of life" changes. They appreciate the "get fucked" learning curve because they feel accomplished when they learn and get past it the next time.

If a Goliath gets in the base stab it with your knife until it dies.

So if Colossus or Bubblegum also get in the base are we supposed to stab them until they die as well?

[cedarbridge]

why are you fighting this?

Because there is a segment of the gaming population that enjoys things being difficult and even unfair to a masochistic degree, and those players see any attempt to make lavaland easier as the slippery slope to the mundane and safe station where every sort of PVE challenge or danger has been completely eroded by "quality of life" changes. They appreciate the "get fucked" learning curve because they feel accomplished when they learn and get past it the next time.

If a Goliath gets in the base stab it with your knife until it dies.

So if Colossus or Bubblegum also get in the base are we supposed to stab them until they die as well?

The supposed stated solution is "git gud" and find some way to not die while slapping down an aux base while begging cargo for new suits.

[Qbopper]

I think there shouldn't be something stopping megafauna from accidentally being brought back to the base, but I think having one there at round start is pretty dumb

even if you can deal with it getting that loot right away strikes me as silly

There doesn't need to be anything more to this beyond "don't let megafauna spawn within X tiles of the base"

[Jacough]

I think there shouldn't be something stopping megafauna from accidentally being brought back to the base, but I think having one there at round start is pretty dumb

even if you can deal with it getting that loot right away strikes me as silly

There doesn't need to be anything more to this beyond "don't let megafauna spawn within X tiles of the base"

That's what I was thinking as well and what I didn't understand Kor getting so butt hurt about. I don't really have a problem with regular fauna getting in because getting killed by them doesn't permanently remove you from the round and if worst comes to absolute worst security or gun cargo can probably take care of them. Having mining get fucked before they can even get out the door because an ash drake or some shit spawned right outside and having to sit out 30 min or longer because megafauna permanently destroyed their corpses? That's just shitty and not fun.

If it happens later because either a terrified fucktard came running home while being chased by bubblegum or maybe a traitor looking to die a glorious death decided to sacrifice himself to lure the colossus back to the station on the other hand, that's some good old Dwarf Fortress fashion fun.

[Togopal]

The main reason I suggest the regular mobs being moved as well is because goliath and legion will start breaking shit if they see you and since there's almost always an ash storm at round start you can't do much but watch as they smash your windows and cause all the items including GPS's and suits you vend and are too slow to grab in time are sucked into the lava

[XDTM]

On that note can we make normal fauna not break walls? I can understand rock breaking, but a solid steel wall shouldn't be like paper, and shouldn't be crushed just because a goliath who didn't even want to pass through the wall was feeling angry while near it.

[D&B]

Just don't aggro the monster and you're gucci

[onleavedontatme]

That's what I was thinking as well and what I didn't understand Kor getting so butt hurt about

Because it seems reasonable to request just this one thing, because spawn kills are no fun

But shadowdimentio also hates chasms, because instant death is no fun

And XDTM thinks it'd be a bit better if mobs didn't break walls

And Kromgar wasn't very amused when ash walkers killed him, so he'd rather those didn't get to fuck with miners, not so fair that a ghost role got to kill him

and Cobby thinks its dumb that golems compete with miners for resources is silly, because ghost roles again

And Startoad is annoyed by the ash storms, because sitting in a shelter is dull.

People have complained that lava is way too unforgiving with 20 firestacks

And so on

So yes, each particular request is reasonable, because there are legitimately annoying aspects about each one. But if I responded to each one in the name of quality of life, there'd no longer be any struggle, and no more lavaland. I think most games in the world would stop existing if each player got to undo a single thing that bothered them.

[Qbopper]

So yes, each particular request is reasonable, because there are legitimately annoying aspects about each one. But if I responded to each one in the name of quality of life, there'd no longer be any struggle, and no more lavaland. I think most games in the world would stop existing if each player got to undo a single thing that bothered them.

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree because I don't see the logic here

annoying =/= challenge

like, obvious meme comparison, but dark souls is difficult without being annoying (barring some of the more poorly designed areas), I don't see how annoying artificial difficulty ("oh you spawned in and there was a megafauna HAHA GG"/"oh you lagged for a second and fell into a pit and now you're out forever HAHA GG") being fixed/changed equates to the entire point going away

you can have challenge and frustration will obviously come from that, but I disagree that removing blatantly annoying bullshit will remove the point of the thing in the first place

(not that I think all of the points you list should be changed/fixed, I just don't agree with that viewpoint)

[XDTM]

Because it seems reasonable to request just this one thing, because spawn kills are no fun

But shadowdimentio also hates chasms, because instant death is no fun

And XDTM thinks it'd be a bit better if mobs didn't break walls

And Kromgar wasn't very amused when ash walkers killed him, so he'd rather those didn't get to fuck with miners, not so fair that a ghost role got to kill him

and Cobby thinks its dumb that golems compete with miners for resources is silly, because ghost roles again

And Startoad is annoyed by the ash storms, because sitting in a shelter is dull.

People have complained that lava is way too unforgiving with 20 firestacks

Maybe not the point of your post, but i wanted to address these

- Spawncamping monsters/megafauna pretty much prevent you from playing or at least severely delay your start; given the power of megafauna it can mean you're out of the round for free. It doesn't add anything of value to the mining experience imo.

- Chasm kills are actually pretty rare, as far as i know, but instakills feel very out of place in our codebase, where even a bullet at the back of your head doesn't kill you outright. Sure, there's stuns, but those require a combination of events. I don't really see a proper solution to this, though.

- I already made my point about walls and monsters.

- Ash walkers are an unexpected difficulty for miners, and the fact that they're weaker should keep them from being obnoxious. Issues may stem when ash walker players metagame the miners' positions to go kill them, but that's a policy issue.

- Golems competing for resources doesn't seem really an issue given how big lavaland is; they may actually instead convince miners to drop their minerals to them and replace the station's rnd, which gets left without minerals. I'd call that emergent gameplay, though.

- Ash storms are somewhat boring, i agree. One positive thing they do, though, is that they make lavaland less trivial to travel in, due to the gear check, but not impossible, due to ruins.

- Lava is the good version of chasms, as in it's deadly but not if you have the proper protections, and not instantly. Making it not deadly would deny its function.

[Bombadil]

It's sucked but sometimes its a really amazing experience.

>Fighting Ash Drake near base
>Suddenly see bubblegum charge another miner
>Ash storm starts
>Attempt to flee drake and get into mining base
>Bubblegum charges me i run all the way to the other side of the mining base
>Tactical Espionage Action
>Break out the cafeteria window walking along lava ridges seeing bubblegum
>Break back into mining base and break out through the smelter windows to landing area
>Manage to pull drake and finish it off
>Then aggro bubblegum and have him chase me around the snow dome
>Lose him and go back into the base and get on shuttle

[Cobby]

That's what I was thinking as well and what I didn't understand Kor getting so butt hurt about

Because it seems reasonable to request just this one thing, because spawn kills are no fun

But shadowdimentio also hates chasms, because instant death is no fun

And XDTM thinks it'd be a bit better if mobs didn't break walls

And Kromgar wasn't very amused when ash walkers killed him, so he'd rather those didn't get to fuck with miners, not so fair that a ghost role got to kill him

and Cobby thinks its dumb that golems compete with miners for resources is silly, because ghost roles again

And Startoad is annoyed by the ash storms, because sitting in a shelter is dull.

People have complained that lava is way too unforgiving with 20 firestacks

And so on

So yes, each particular request is reasonable, because there are legitimately annoying aspects about each one. But if I responded to each one in the name of quality of life, there'd no longer be any struggle, and no more lavaland. I think most games in the world would stop existing if each player got to undo a single thing that bothered them.

The slimeboy is correct

@XDTM He means tendril loot and boss kills

[Bombadil]

I changed my mind on ashliggers.

I just slaughter them all no mercy. I got gud. Still think they shouldnt be able to operate computers though.

I just wasnt fighting them properly. Now i fight them in tunnels with plasma cutters i cut off all their limbs and keep them alive till i throw em into chasms.

[cedarbridge]

I changed my mind on ashliggers.

I just slaughter them all no mercy. I got gud. Still think they shouldnt be able to operate computers though.

I just wasnt fighting them properly. Now i fight them in tunnels with plasma cutters i cut off all their limbs and keep them alive till i throw em into chasms.

I have mixed feelings on them. Once they were alright trading buddies. The next they raided the mining base and tossed me into a tendril. You have to fight back the natives until they learn respect.

[D&B]

>Not just luring megafauna into their nest

Get good

[cedarbridge]

>Not just luring megafauna into their nest

Get good

Just means I have to deal with the fauna myself after to loot the place and it doesn't teach the same lesson as throwing them individually into the lava next to their eggs.

[Doctor Pork]

>Not just luring megafauna into their nest

Get good

Just means I have to deal with the fauna myself after to loot the place and it doesn't teach the same lesson as throwing them individually into the lava next to their eggs.

>not cutting their brains out with their own spears to deliver to robo

shiggidy diggety

[cedarbridge]

>Not just luring megafauna into their nest

Get good

Just means I have to deal with the fauna myself after to loot the place and it doesn't teach the same lesson as throwing them individually into the lava next to their eggs.

>not cutting their brains out with their own spears to deliver to robo

shiggidy diggety

>brains
>when their lungs are right there

[Doctor Pork]

>Not just luring megafauna into their nest

Get good

Just means I have to deal with the fauna myself after to loot the place and it doesn't teach the same lesson as throwing them individually into the lava next to their eggs.

>not cutting their brains out with their own spears to deliver to robo

shiggidy diggety

>brains
>when their lungs are right there

>lungs
>not tails

its like you dont even oppress the ashliggers

[cedarbridge]

>Not just luring megafauna into their nest

Get good

Just means I have to deal with the fauna myself after to loot the place and it doesn't teach the same lesson as throwing them individually into the lava next to their eggs.

>not cutting their brains out with their own spears to deliver to robo

shiggidy diggety

>brains
>when their lungs are right there

>lungs
>not tails

its like you dont even oppress the ashliggers

I can't powergame with tails Pork. Geez.

Spoiler:

Also I've been playing my own lizard lately and it would be sacrilege.

[onleavedontatme]

So yes, each particular request is reasonable, because there are legitimately annoying aspects about each one. But if I responded to each one in the name of quality of life, there'd no longer be any struggle, and no more lavaland. I think most games in the world would stop existing if each player got to undo a single thing that bothered them.

I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree because I don't see the logic here

annoying =/= challenge

like, obvious meme comparison, but dark souls is difficult without being annoying (barring some of the more poorly designed areas), I don't see how annoying artificial difficulty ("oh you spawned in and there was a megafauna HAHA GG"/"oh you lagged for a second and fell into a pit and now you're out forever HAHA GG") being fixed/changed equates to the entire point going away

you can have challenge and frustration will obviously come from that, but I disagree that removing blatantly annoying bullshit will remove the point of the thing in the first place

(not that I think all of the points you list should be changed/fixed, I just don't agree with that viewpoint)

1. Lag is not part of the game design obviously. It's unfair but there isn't much I can do about that.

2. You will absolutely die in dark souls if you turn the wrong corner and run into an enemy that is way above your level.

3. Everything else but the lag on lavaland is 100% survivable with a set of internals and a knife, it is very fair

4. I'd rather have stupid shit happen that can lead to new experiences and fun stories than a perfectly balanced game anyway. I could make an exclusion zone around the base, but why miss out on things like this https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/23911

[captain sawrge]

dark souls is actually totally balanced around unfair bullshit that you keep dying to until you figure out the tricks to beating it so thats a bad analogy

[cedarbridge]

dark souls is actually totally balanced around unfair bullshit that you keep dying to until you figure out the tricks to beating it so thats a bad analogy

Dark Souls also doesn't tell you to come back in 30 minutes to 2 hours before trying again.

[Haevacht]

dark souls is actually totally balanced around unfair bullshit that you keep dying to until you figure out the tricks to beating it so thats a bad analogy

It gets better with that so its more vigilance and being ready for shit to go bad rather than die to a trap and just not do that again.

[Qbopper]

dark souls is actually totally balanced around unfair bullshit that you keep dying to until you figure out the tricks to beating it so thats a bad analogy

Other than the obvious dumb shit like seath I would disagree but this is a different argument so I'll concede

dark souls is actually totally balanced around unfair bullshit that you keep dying to until you figure out the tricks to beating it so thats a bad analogy

Dark Souls also doesn't tell you to come back in 30 minutes to 2 hours before trying again.

My main issue - a game like Super Meat Boy having failure be a part of the game is no big because you're back in the action immediately

things like chasms remove you entirely from the round unless you happened to get scanned in cloning before you left and then you're done for the entire round

1. Lag is not part of the game design obviously. It's unfair but there isn't much I can do about that.

2. You will absolutely die in dark souls if you turn the wrong corner and run into an enemy that is way above your level.

3. Everything else but the lag on lavaland is 100% survivable with a set of internals and a knife, it is very fair

4. I'd rather have stupid shit happen that can lead to new experiences and fun stories than a perfectly balanced game anyway. I could make an exclusion zone around the base, but why miss out on things like this https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/issues/23911

1. yeah lag existing wasn't really fair of me to bring up, I just think it's something to keep in mind when designing things

2. Except in Dark Souls they don't put a door to endgame areas at firelink shrine (you might argue the graveyard counts, but the fact that the skeletons are low hp and the game makes it clear that you can't kill them without you having to die repeatedly should be enough info to get you to turn back - and even if you do die the consequences are comparatively little since you're respawned right away, you're close by, and you'll have few souls by then)

3. If everything else is survivable then why do things like chasms need to exist, especially when lava does it better

4. I don't disagree, but the bases spawning next to each other doesn't kick you out of the game for the rest of the round

I just REALLY hate chasms

[Grazyn]

Once again, miners don't spawn in mining EVA. Beasts don't spawnkill them. And all their gear except the suits (which, again, aren't needed for mining) is on the station. If you're so worried about dying to "unfair" things, you can also get yourself backed up at cloning before going to the outpost. You do that at roundstart, there's a fair chance someone will clone you if you scream "MEGAFAUNA ON MINING" if you happen to find a drake waiting outside the outpost. Chasms are also hard-countered by (auto)cloning, and jaunters

[Qbopper]

Once again, miners don't spawn in mining EVA. Beasts don't spawnkill them. And all their gear except the suits (which, again, aren't needed for mining) is on the station. If you're so worried about dying to "unfair" things, you can also get yourself backed up at cloning before going to the outpost. You do that at roundstart, there's a fair chance someone will clone you if you scream "MEGAFAUNA ON MINING" if you happen to find a drake waiting outside the outpost. Chasms are also hard-countered by (auto)cloning, and jaunters

But if there's megafauna right outside the base when you take the shuttle, even if you escape back to the station alive, doesn't that essentially negate your job for the entire round

[Grazyn]

Once again, miners don't spawn in mining EVA. Beasts don't spawnkill them. And all their gear except the suits (which, again, aren't needed for mining) is on the station. If you're so worried about dying to "unfair" things, you can also get yourself backed up at cloning before going to the outpost. You do that at roundstart, there's a fair chance someone will clone you if you scream "MEGAFAUNA ON MINING" if you happen to find a drake waiting outside the outpost. Chasms are also hard-countered by (auto)cloning, and jaunters

But if there's megafauna right outside the base when you take the shuttle, even if you escape back to the station alive, doesn't that essentially negate your job for the entire round

aaaargh how many times do I have to say this

>optional: if megafauna is a dragon, ask if there is an experienced dragon slayer willing to help (there usually is at least one)
>ask sec to let you back to mining via gulag
>dig a tunnel and go far enough from the gulag to leave the ore scarcity zone
>drop the aux base beacon and shuttle beacon
>drop the aux base
>optional: mine enough ore to buy your explorer suit back from cargo
>restart mining operations

but this apparently falls under "git gud" and we shouldn't expect miners to do that. It also doesn't count as interesting gameplay or small deviation from the usual slog, when your workplace is compromised you should just throw your hands in the air and log off, ignoring every tool the game offers you.