/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

bandit wrote:If I disconnect in the middle of setting up the singularity or being a security officer or the AI, that's bad news for everyone else. (A few rounds ago I was lagging like fuck as AI, and it ended up making the captain think I was rogue and bad stuff happen.) If I disconnect in the middle of antagging, then it really only screws me over.

Okay, can you clarify this part please? I really didn't get it. Are you saying that you cannot play anything but assistant because you can disconnect or what?

Kelenius wrote:you'll be surrounded by a fuckton of incompetent players

Kelenius wrote:A lot of experienced players don't want to get real jobs

Oh jee, I wonder if those are connected somehow?

And could you stop implying that you'll never play antag? MisterPerson suggested a pretty good way of doing it, with players who have jobs getting preference over those who play assistant, so everyone will be antags, however players with jobs will get preference.

I mean, as a silicon player, you deal with less antag already, how is that a problem for you?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

bandit wrote:If I disconnect in the middle of setting up the singularity or being a security officer or the AI, that's bad news for everyone else. (A few rounds ago I was lagging like fuck as AI, and it ended up making the captain think I was rogue and bad stuff happen.) If I disconnect in the middle of antagging, then it really only screws me over.

Okay, can you clarify this part please? I really didn't get it. Are you saying that you cannot play anything but assistant because you can disconnect or what?

My internet connection is a piece of shit, and a lot of times I'll lag and/or disconnect randomly (actually, it's down right now and I'm typing this from phone tethering, fun times.) This is a large part of the reason why I rarely play heads of staff, because disconnecting without warning is bannable. But even when it's not bannable it can be dickish to other players. Nothing sucks more to go to the chemist because you need, say, alkysine and find the chemist braindead. Or to have a gaping hull breach and engineers not respond. Or to be in crit outside medbay when the doctor has fucked off to the dorm. Or to be a braindead security officer who quickly gets looted by shitlers. Et cetera. If you're an assistant nobody gives a shit if you're braindead or if you disconnect. It doesn't fuck up anyone else's round. The same can be said of jobs that get boring. Most jobs get boring and/or tedious after several repetitions. This is just fact. The thing is, for many jobs, even if you're bored, you're inconveniencing the crew by not slogging through the boredom. Assistant doesn't have that.

Steelpoint wrote:An Assistant Antag is essentially a Assistant that can legally grey tide.

Anyway, all you did was further reinforce the point that Assistants contribute very little to the round and that their main call to arms is their chance of being selected for antag status.

The proposed system simply shifts the antag rolls away from assistants and gives it to non-assistants. Assistants would get antag status if all eligible rolls are filled.

No, I didn't say assistants don't contribute anything, you did. I only said that even if that were true, it's still a bad idea to make them not to be able to roll for antag, because if they are antag they are definitely useful then.

>An Assistant Antag is essentially a Assistant that can legally grey tide.

Is there a problem with that?

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

Kelenius wrote:you'll be surrounded by a fuckton of incompetent players

Kelenius wrote:A lot of experienced players don't want to get real jobs

Oh jee, I wonder if those are connected somehow?

And could you stop implying that you'll never play antag? MisterPerson suggested a pretty good way of doing it, with players who have jobs getting preference over those who play assistant, so everyone will be antags, however players with jobs will get preference.

I mean, as a silicon player, you deal with less antag already, how is that a problem for you?

Doing the same shit over and over is not fun. If the Tesla engine is added, I will play engineer again just to set it up and explore it, but until then I am not playing engineer because fuck setting up the singulo one more single time.

There is no reason for assistants being less eligible for antagonist than the other jobs. Zero. You want to fix greytiding, this is not the solution.

Well, you guys said it yourself - jobs can get boring. It's only appropriate that people who do them anyway for a round to actually go on to have a little bonus in terms of increased antag chances.

Look, guys, let's just agree on what we want assistant to be. Clearly assistant is a job for newcomers and people who want to relax. Reducing antag chances will hurt this definition of assistant in this many ways: 0.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Well, you guys said it yourself - jobs can get boring. It's only appropriate that people who do them anyway for a round to actually go on to have a little bonus in terms of increased antag chances.

Look, guys, let's just agree on what we want assistant to be. Clearly assistant is a job for newcomers and people who want to relax. Reducing antag chances will hurt this definition of assistant in this many ways: 0.

Assistant is for people who do not want responsibilities during their current round. This is completely separate from antag. Newbies can not enable antag chance, which solves that method entirely. So can people who want to relax.

As for graytiders, here is a novel idea: JUST FUCKING BAN THEM.

Disconnecting as antag doesn't only hurt yourself. It also makes the round more boring for everyone else because there are fewer antags mixing things up. If you want to play a game without responsibility, you shouldn't have antag turned on.

bandit wrote:

tunderchief wrote:The only people defending it are those who partake in the greytide and don't want the party to end.

Citation very fucking much needed. I'm defending it. Am I one of those people? Name names or shut up.

>implying you don't play as Fortune Ray
>implying I don't see you breaking into EVA and Tech Storage, being tased and cuffed for breaking into EVA or Tech Storage, or in the Brig for breaking into EVA or Tech Storage on a regular basis
>implying you don't greytide frequently

I've even checked post round to see if you're antag, and that's never the case when you do this shit. So yes, as a matter of fact, you are a pro-Assistant greytider, and one of the people I was referencing.

Implying you don't bomb the station occasionally. Why should you be more eligible to be antag if you act like an antag all the time?

If you want to fix greytiding, ban greytiders/make them valid.

Let's avoid bringing history into this. We're all shit for whatever reason. Doesn't change the fact that this change is stupid.

It's not about greytiding. Greytiding sort of comes from many people playing assistants, but it's a derivative issue, it's not really related to this.

Like, you people yourself say that doing jobs is tedious and boring. Then tell me, why do you not want to reward people who do them, thus allowing you to play the game.

Let me put it this way. You want to do what you want, you want station to have power, not be burning in plasma or freezing from space, be relatively safe to walk around in, you want to be healed when injured and you want cool items when they are available. You just expect that others will do all that for you while you validhunt, loot maintenance, build autism fortress and roll for antags so you can go on murderboner.

Reward them for what, having fun in their own way? Are you playing this to be rewarded? You're not a special snowflake for setting up the singularity. If there's an AI and a cyborg, there will be power for certain, if the engineers decide not to do their job or just don't exist.

Scott wrote:Reward them for what, having fun in their own way?

Kelenius wrote:A lot of experienced players don't want to get real jobs because it's tedious as fuck and annoying, because most of the time you'll be surrounded by a fuckton of incompetent players, and worse, you'll be relying on them.

bandit wrote:Most jobs get boring and/or tedious after several repetitions. This is just fact.

bandit wrote:This is just fact.

Oh, jee, I guess others don't agree with you.

Scott wrote:Are you playing this to be rewarded?

I don't see how this answers my question.

Scott wrote:You're not a special snowflake for setting up the singularity.

It's more than you ever do, apparently. It's like saying "oh you're not a special snowflake because you are a good shot" in first-person shooter. May be not, but certainly a better player than you are.

Scott wrote:If there's an AI and a cyborg, there will be power for certain, if the engineers decide not to do their job or just don't exist.

This just confirms everything I said earlier. Furthermore, cyborgs cannot physically set up collectors.

May be you haven't seen rounds where no power is set up, but I have. It's pretty terrible.

Okay son, you're so special because you set up the singulo.

The gist of it is that since most station personal contribute something tangible to the station's operation, they should be rewarded with a antag chance.

Since the assistant has no responsibilities, and more importantly they don't actually do anything to the station's benefit or operation, they should not have the same antag privilege as normal station roles. Or more effectively as earlier suggested that they are given second priority on antag roles after everyone else.

well the poll indicates people don't want it so it won't get in

i mean unless the /tg/ coders just slap it in anyway

43 for it, 42 against.

It's not like polls matter anyway though.

Scott wrote:Are you playing this to be rewarded?

Yes. It's called fun.

Scott wrote:You're not a special snowflake for setting up the singularity.

This isn't really an argument, it's you being belligerent under the guise of arguing.

Man_Shroom wrote:i mean unless the /tg/ coders just slap it in anyway

There's precedent enough.


For the record, I didn't vote.

Scott wrote:Okay son, you're so special because you set up the singulo.

It's a job that really nobody wants to do. It deserves some credit.

Scott wrote:You're not a special snowflake for setting up the singularity.

It is actively contributing to the station as a whole. Which you signing up to greyshirt sure isn't doing.

tunderchief wrote:

bandit wrote:

tunderchief wrote:The only people defending it are those who partake in the greytide and don't want the party to end.

Citation very fucking much needed. I'm defending it. Am I one of those people? Name names or shut up.

>implying you don't play as Fortune Ray
>implying I don't see you breaking into EVA and Tech Storage, being tased and cuffed for breaking into EVA or Tech Storage, or in the Brig for breaking into EVA or Tech Storage on a regular basis
>implying you don't greytide frequently

I've even checked post round to see if you're antag, and that's never the case when you do this shit. So yes, as a matter of fact, you are a pro-Assistant greytider, and one of the people I was referencing.

The fuck? The only times I ever try to get into EVA it's to either take a sheet of metal or a mechanical toolbox from the foyer (i.e. the shit everyone always forgets is there and never uses), and I get the AI to let me in. The only times I break into Tech Storage it's when I'm an antag who wants to get into secure tech. I literally have no idea what you are talking about. Most of the time when I'm assistant I actually try to help other people, like dragging them to cloning or fixing lights or shit like that.

Prepare yourselves for people that pick actual jobs to get that antag chance but don't actually do anything

That's up there with "This game is only about antags" on the stupidity scale.

Scott wrote:If there's an AI and a cyborg, there will be power for certain

>implying the borg is going to waste time setting up the solars if there is anything even remotely more interesting to do

Sitting like useless lumps in the dark is not harmful to humans and the AI SMES is self-contained.

bandit wrote:

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Well, you guys said it yourself - jobs can get boring. It's only appropriate that people who do them anyway for a round to actually go on to have a little bonus in terms of increased antag chances.

Look, guys, let's just agree on what we want assistant to be. Clearly assistant is a job for newcomers and people who want to relax. Reducing antag chances will hurt this definition of assistant in this many ways: 0.

Assistant is for people who do not want responsibilities during their current round. This is completely separate from antag. Newbies can not enable antag chance, which solves that method entirely. So can people who want to relax.

As for graytiders, here is a novel idea: JUST FUCKING BAN THEM.

Being an antag gives you the reponsibility to make the round fun.

Intresting, not fun.

Being a antag gives you the opportunity to make the round fun. There is no obligation. But this is off topic.

If someone was able to rewrite the antag assignment system to assign antag status before your job was selected, then we could freely remove assistant antag since your antag opportunity would remain unchanged. Of course you would still have a slightly lower antag chance since players playing Security or Captain actually have a chance to be selected for antag.

Edit: Nope, this is waaay more complicated.

Steelpoint wrote:Being a antag gives you the opportunity to make the round fun. There is no obligation. But this is off topic.

If someone was able to rewrite the antag assignment system to assign antag status before your job was selected, then we could freely remove assistant antag since your antag opportunity would remain unchanged. Of course you would still have a slightly lower antag chance since players playing Security or Captain actually have a chance to be selected for antag.

This would defeat the whole point of having less assistants and add huge amounts of meta.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Being a antag gives you the opportunity to make the round fun. There is no obligation. But this is off topic.

If someone was able to rewrite the antag assignment system to assign antag status before your job was selected, then we could freely remove assistant antag since your antag opportunity would remain unchanged. Of course you would still have a slightly lower antag chance since players playing Security or Captain actually have a chance to be selected for antag.

This would defeat the whole point of having less assistants and add huge amounts of meta.

On the flip side it would also probably decrease the number of greyshirts in the first place. Probably not back down where it belongs (newer players/overflow) but probably at least to a significant level.

Steelpoint wrote:Being a antag gives you the opportunity to make the round fun. There is no obligation. But this is off topic.

There is very much an obligation, even if it is just an implied one.

Why have antags at all if they don't make the round more fun?

The goal is they make things more fun, but antagonists aren't required to do so. They could all just dick off without consequence.

People whine when you provide them with too much "fun".

My 2 cents after reading a page of the thread

Automatically jobban people from assistant after say, 2 weeks of playing. It will force people into job slots, and the only time they will get around said jobban (I believe it can happen if you're forced into the role), is if there are no more job slots at all

TheVinylScratch wrote:My 2 cents after reading a page of the thread

Automatically jobban people from assistant after say, 2 weeks of playing. It will force people into job slots, and the only time they will get around said jobban (I believe it can happen if you're forced into the role), is if there are no more job slots at all

Unfortunately, the ban system is all or nothing. If you're jobbanned from assistant, and there are no other job slots, you're boned.

The other day I was rolling for Cyborg and Atmos Tech and I ended up an assistant. A couple minutes after round start I see someone joining as Atmos Tech. I was made Assistant even though there were slots for the jobs I wanted.

Let assistants be.

Scott wrote:The other day I was rolling for Cyborg and Atmos Tech and I ended up an assistant. A couple minutes after round start I see someone joining as Atmos Tech. I was made Assistant even though there were slots for the jobs I wanted.

Let assistants be.

That is because there only exists one roundstart slot for that job. The same as roboticist and (I think) chemist and botany. There are other slots but they're reserved for second wave joins.

i dont think that's how it works
roundstart code is just shit.

also, i want to be able to join as assistant if i don't get borg so i can be borged anyway.

cedarbridge wrote:

Scott wrote:The other day I was rolling for Cyborg and Atmos Tech and I ended up an assistant. A couple minutes after round start I see someone joining as Atmos Tech. I was made Assistant even though there were slots for the jobs I wanted.

Let assistants be.

That is because there only exists one roundstart slot for that job. The same as roboticist and (I think) chemist and botany. There are other slots but they're reserved for second wave joins.

That's not true at all. I have started as Atmos Tech paired with another Atmos Tech before, same as Roboticist, same as Chemist, same as Botanist.

Miauw wrote:also, i want to be able to join as assistant if i don't get borg so i can be borged anyway.

This.

Why would you care about antag chances if you want to get borged?

If I get antag I won't get myself borged, obviously.

I think Miauw was referring to the suggestion to ban veteran players from assistant until all other roles were filled.

Forcing people into a role they don't want?

Congratulations, you just made a suggestion that is even worse.