ID rehaul

[tacolizard]

I've been trying to code this for a while but here's my basic idea:


background
Looking at things like telesci, I realized there are two types of 'barriers' that limit players from having access to certain things. That sounds vague, let me explain.

There's the most common barrier, gameplay barriers. I consider this to be things like requiring a certain ID card to get access to an area, or needing to be a traitor with an emag to activate certain functionality of machines. These barriers can be overidden without any particular skill on the part of the player, just being lucky/good at the game in general.

Then there's the other barrier, the 'meta' barrier is what i am calling it. This is things like telesci, where you had to calculate coordinates and stuff without much ingame help. This resulted in things like telesci calculators. This type of barrier requires specialized out-of-game skill to overcome. You may counter this point by mentioning telesci calculators, but I respond by saying that letting players create their own solutions to problems, instead of being forced into performing an ingame action, is something unique and interesting. It shouldn't be too easy, but if people make programs to solve in-game problems, then they're playing the game right.

I decided we should have more of these 'meta' barriers, and what better place to have one than the ID system?

idea

IDs in their current state have no way for a player to modify their access without breaking into and accessing a specific computer console, and having an extra ID with high access. It would be more interesting, I believe, to allow players more freedom and experimentation with the ID system.

My idea for a new rehaul of the ID system:
1. Already, every ID with access to anywhere has a list variable that contains a series of numbers. These numbers are used to provide access across the station, but are inaccessible to the player.
2. At the beginning of each round, a random 'encryption key' should be generated.
3. This key should be used to 'encrypt' the access list of every ID
4. When access is required, by a door for example, the door will decrypt the ID using the key
5. There should be some fairly easy way for players to access the encrypted values of their ID's access, and attempt to modify it
6. Players should be able to freely modify this 'encrypted' value, but without the 'key' it should be nearly impossible to randomly guess how exactly they should modify this value to add/change their access
7. By comparing IDs, it should be possible to 'reverse-engineer' the encryption key. This reverse engineering won't be aided by any ingame feature. Players should solve this out-of-game
8. Players may then use this key to perform some out-of-game computation to decrypt their ID, allowing them to know how to modify their encrypted access to give them actual access
Edit: 9. To combat the use of calculators, the exact computations required should be somewhat unique depending on which ID you are modifying and what access you are adding. The key may need to be used differently depending on what access you have, who you are, and what access you are adding/removing

Hopefully this makes sense. The goal of this is to add a feature that requires special knowledge and skill to use.

A lot of you don't seem to understand that this isn't just about illicit access and door hacking. Being able to give your ID access gives you access to everything that is ID protected. Not just doors.

[Lazengann]

or I'll just pulse the test wire

I do like the idea though, it'd be fun to play with.

[Qbopper]

As long as it's different from round to round and the HoP is still easily able to change accesses, I think this is interesting, would certainly be at least an interesting thing to try testing out

It would need to be complex enough that you can't just crack the encryption and get all access every round ez pz, but if you can accomplish that then I would think it would be a cool addition

would require a fair amount of backend work though, I believe

[cedarbridge]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

[DemonFiren]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

"There's no way to give myself AA in a risk-free fashion."

[Qbopper]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

I think the idea is to make breaking into areas you don't have access to a little more interesting than "saw through the walls" or "steal all access/get it from the hop console"

I'll admit I don't think there's a "problem" to be solved, but I don't think every idea needs to be able to solve existing problems, just contribute to the game in a positive way

[cedarbridge]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

I think the idea is to make breaking into areas you don't have access to a little more interesting than "saw through the walls" or "steal all access/get it from the hop console"

I'll admit I don't think there's a "problem" to be solved, but I don't think every idea needs to be able to solve existing problems, just contribute to the game in a positive way

Even given the outline in the OP you're going to need one or more IDs that aren't yours. This means you're either stealing them or you're getting your metabuddies together to huddle up and guess the magic All Access code. There are already more than adequate means of acquiring illicit access to departments and rooms that I don't see how adding a game of guess the passcode to IDs will improve their function in a fun or interesting way.

Also, you don't propose a "rework" if the thing being reworked doesn't need a substantial change or fix.

[Qbopper]

fair enough, I suppose

[FantasticFwoosh]

But isn't this just forging access without a console, i mean going off what you've described, every button press on the HOP console is going to alter the ID code, stamping a few sequences of numbers here & there.

If you work out the pattern & scream it over intercomms, everyone and their mother has free access (more information about how you edit cards/hack doors things rawly please)

[MisterPerson]

I've never seen a single "meta" barrier that I would consider fun or interesting in any way. I don't even think it's possible to have on that's not trash, to be honest.

[Cobby]

Quite an odd way to suggest everyone just start with agent IDs.

[MrEousTranger]

Sounds kinda fun

It would be an even better reason for hops to not let anyone in their office, or near their ID, or ID machine.

[Kyrah Abattoir]

The problem of things like telesci is that once a calculator is out, the meta is pretty much pushing buttons in a software outside the game.

Congrats you gave a little challenge to a single coder, now that his tool/calculator is out in the wild, it is now a challenge for no one.

[tacolizard]

As long as it's different from round to round and the HoP is still easily able to change accesses, I think this is interesting, would certainly be at least an interesting thing to try testing out

It would need to be complex enough that you can't just crack the encryption and get all access every round ez pz, but if you can accomplish that then I would think it would be a cool addition

would require a fair amount of backend work though, I believe

I have done some testing and prototyping, and changing the 'backend' of ids wasn't that big actually. The hardest part that made me give up (at least for now) was, as you said, making it complex enough that you can't crack the encryption easy every round.

I was unable to find a suitable encryption method, though i'm not an expert in cryptography. I think it is possible though.

[tacolizard]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

I think the idea is to make breaking into areas you don't have access to a little more interesting than "saw through the walls" or "steal all access/get it from the hop console"

exactly. also:

Looking at things like telesci, I realized there are two types of 'barriers' that limit players from having access to certain things. That sounds vague, let me explain.

There's the most common barrier, gameplay barriers. I consider this to be things like requiring a certain ID card to get access to an area, or needing to be a traitor with an emag to activate certain functionality of machines. These barriers can be overidden without any particular skill on the part of the player, just being lucky/good at the game in general.

Then there's the other barrier, the 'meta' barrier is what i am calling it. This is things like telesci, where you had to calculate coordinates and stuff without much ingame help. This resulted in things like telesci calculators. This type of barrier requires specialized out-of-game skill to overcome. You may counter this point by mentioning telesci calculators, but I respond by saying that letting players create their own solutions to problems, instead of being forced into performing an ingame action, is something unique and interesting. It shouldn't be too easy, but if people make programs to solve in-game problems, then they're playing the game right.

[tacolizard]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

"There's no way to give myself AA in a risk-free fashion."

This is not designed to be risk-free. I don't have it entirely set in stone yet, but the idea is that to get the encryption key, you need access to several IDs with more (and less) access than you. Getting people's ids is not risk-free.

[tacolizard]

Like a lot of the ideas posted in this section, I'm trying to figure out what this is proposed to fix. Not enough players have access that they shouldn't have based on their job?

I think the idea is to make breaking into areas you don't have access to a little more interesting than "saw through the walls" or "steal all access/get it from the hop console"

I'll admit I don't think there's a "problem" to be solved, but I don't think every idea needs to be able to solve existing problems, just contribute to the game in a positive way

Even given the outline in the OP you're going to need one or more IDs that aren't yours. This means you're either stealing them or you're getting your metabuddies together to huddle up and guess the magic All Access code. There are already more than adequate means of acquiring illicit access to departments and rooms that I don't see how adding a game of guess the passcode to IDs will improve their function in a fun or interesting way.

Also, you don't propose a "rework" if the thing being reworked doesn't need a substantial change or fix.

it's not 'guess the passcode', its 'obtain several hard-to-get items and do some fairly complex math and process of elimination to find the passcode'

[tacolizard]

But isn't this just forging access without a console, i mean going off what you've described, every button press on the HOP console is going to alter the ID code, stamping a few sequences of numbers here & there.

If you work out the pattern & scream it over intercomms, everyone and their mother has free access (more information about how you edit cards/hack doors things rawly please)

Door hacking isn't part of this. Editing cards would be done with some sort of device or console, something that sec would probably arrest you for having. Even if the code was screamed over the intercomm, you still need to know how the encryption system works to use the code.

[tacolizard]

The problem of things like telesci is that once a calculator is out, the meta is pretty much pushing buttons in a software outside the game.

Congrats you gave a little challenge to a single coder, now that his tool/calculator is out in the wild, it is now a challenge for no one.

this is a valid complaint, my biggest obstacle when I was working on this was to make the encryption pretty complex. However, even if there was a calculator that could figure everything out, you would still need to have several stolen IDs to have the data to input into that calculator, as well as access to an ID rewriter.

[kevinz000]

time to make telescience v5: id card edition!

[Qbopper]

time to make telescience v5: id card edition!

I can understand not liking the idea but he directly addresses this point in his posts

Whether or not it's possible to do is a different story though

[Bawhoppennn]

I think ID cards as is are pretty okay

[cedarbridge]

I still don't see what this would add to the game that is either good or wanted. The OP states that this is needed because there should be a way to add access to your own ID without stealing access or using the consoles on the station, because reasons I guess? Because locked doors are mean? I don't get it.

Next its stated that the proposed method will require collecting IDs and comparing them against something? Its then admitted that whatever the thing is will likely either require advanced math or a calculator. So which is it? Is getting other IDs to get access bad and needs to be fixed or should it be even more required to trigger whatever telesci lite this is? How will this not result in 1) metaclubs of assistants getting together to circlejerk IDs to all-access or 2) mimes/clowns/greys/sec stealing every ID their sticky fingers can get their hands on to get all-access?

Why would a player do literally any of this when the ID consoles are easier to use, fairly easy to get access to, and the spare is even easier to get?

I have a problem with this on a design level as well. Access is assigned to jobs and in many cases that access is a primary indicator of what makes that job unique. If you want access to a place you should 1) get access legally by talking to players and getting your ID updated, 2) steal an ID that has access and use it 3) make use of the station AI/borgs to grant you temporary access to the place 4) hack the door, remove the window/wall in a pinch. I don't see why there needs to be a way to make getting non-antag illicit access to a place easier or possible without some overt act. Again, why is it needed?

[tacolizard]

The goal is just to make the game more interesting, and add a new way to do something. That's really the core of it. I'm not working on it right now. I just posted this to get the idea out there in case someone else wants to pick up this idea and make it.

[Cherrypone]

"Hey guys people not accessing areas is a restriction on gameplay so let's just give everyone agent IDs that you can also fuck with to get random access"

[kevinz000]

until i get around to making my ntnet overhaul pipe dream a reality (which would allow encryption/access codes to do something interesting) this sounds like something that'll only be used by powergamers with calculators to get all access every round so .

[kevinz000]

also >this complex an idea
>i'll code it
>nvm i'm not working on it anymore
>expects someone to pick it up
sigh.

[tacolizard]

also >this complex an idea
>i'll code it
>nvm i'm not working on it anymore
>expects someone to pick it up
sigh.

i don't expect anyone to pick it up. I just thought people might come up with their own ideas based off this.