/tg/Station 13

disclaimer: not a fully formed idea
shittin this thread out real quick before this whisper of a concept disappears from my brain

I had a quick thought about how we might try to alleviate some of the tension between security and the crew that leads to adminhelps regarding sentencing, execution, etc.

I figured that we could possibly have a role deemed "Centcom Judge" or something similar, probably run by admin(s), which would have direct radio contact with security. Security staff could ask the centcom judge to give a ruling on criminal cases regarding people they bring in for sentencing. The judge would have access to security records and whatnot, and whatever sentence they hand down would basically be the inarguable judgement for security to follow.

ideally, the lawyer and detective would be involved somehow. I dunno how. if you have ideas they are welcome

Sounds like an admin except he cant see logs and will probably just take securities word for it since they cant be antag.

Either that or just troll sec by telling them they have to free dangerous people.

I like this idea. Have a teleporter to the off-station court room, and pick a judge from the ghost pool.

I don't think I like the idea of it being a ghost role due to what Kor said.
I think it would have to be some kind of admin-only interaction. I do think it could be valuable though;
instead of people adminhelping a bunch of sec related stuff because some officer executed someone or some prisoner did something stupid etc., security could "contact" the "judge" the moment they bring the prisoner in, and the prisoner and the officer could both have a chance to briefly explain what happened, and then the "judge" would hand down a sentence.

Nah it's fucking pointless then. Admins never do anything.

> Admins never do anything
> We were just told to be more conservative with buttons

CRAWLING IN MY SKIIIIIIINNNNNNN

danno promoting grėytidįng and pushing anti sec agenda by disguising a job as IC admin intervention

Not sure I understand how this would promote that or affect it at all
This is supposed to be helpful for security.

danno wrote:Not sure I understand how this would promote that or affect it at all
This is supposed to be helpful for security.

no it isn't

"Hi im ur admin intervening person I hand out admin mandated IC rulings like an annoying lawyer that delays and disrupts security work because admin dodesnt like what u r doin, if you arrest me I send ERT to arrest you or deathsquad if they don't. Listen to me or die".

Sentencing would be done in the same way that it's usually done by players
Ideally it would be done faster than your average arrest is usually handled because it means stuff like prisoners sitting in a cell without a timer while an officer tries to find out why they were wanted doesn't happen probably

The end of your post is just silly
are you being an ass deliberately or are you serious

First if this is merged, I would never use it. I don't want admins controlling my sentencing when I play security, I can sentence people myself, I can do it fairly, and I can do it in a manner that deters crime and keeps criminals out of the halls. I don't get how this "helps security" when more than likely the judge will take forever getting both sides of the story, quite possibly bwoinking those involved in what should be an IC issue. In the meantime the prisoner will be sitting around in processing while I could have them working away their sentence/in a brig cell/dead/permaed by then. Reminds me of the time when PKPenguin bwoinked me asking why I had a scientist detained for making bombs. (not even executed or brigs, just searching) I reply telling him that I saw the scientist on arrest so I detained and searched. I then tell him he's literally slowing down the processing of the prisoner by bwoinking me, same concept here. (I have nothing against PKP for this incident, more against the moron that ahelped when he was just getting searched) We've never needed an admin to tell us how to sentence people in the past and we don't need one now. And pretty much all of JMad's posts are correct on what would happen.

No bwoinking would be involved (very clearly that would defeat the purpose) and I figured that the time both parties would be given to speak over the radio would be very, very brief. It might not even be a good idea to have both parties talk, maybe just the officer. I dunno. Either way, very short.

I still don't think this is a good idea but it better be optional if it becomes a thing so I don't have to get an admin's second opinion on EVERY SINGLE ARREST. The amount of greytide apologist admins we've been getting lately is too high for my liking.

It would probably have to be optional, at least when first implemented, just for the sake of practicality
which makes me think it probably wouldn't be used that much, which is a problem
not really sure what to do about that quite yet

I'm not trying to pose this as a way for admins to breathe down your neck, posed to strike you down the moment you step out of line. I'm trying to ease the stress on security staff by putting decisions like that out of their hands, so they can go "Well, Centcom has spoken. Into perma you go." or whatever. Maybe with a little bit of that help I figure security-crew relationships might become a little less tense and who knows, maybe even result in LESS gray tiding.

Maybe it SHOULD be a ghost role of some kind, albeit one with some very clear boundaries on just what they can and can't do.

it's honestly a little silly that you guys immediately see this as some kind of attempt to bend over """"security mains"""" or whatever

Won't the courtroom just get bombed every time it is used like it does now?

I'm pretty serious about my post because it has happened before

Admins have spawned centcomm officials/snowflake xenos/some other shit, and they try to mess the round up.

Captain doesn't like the centcomm official messing with the round
next thing we get an arrest warrant
So centcomm official arrested, admin sends a fucking ERT because his idea of event or intervention is shut down and it's "player admin escalation".
ERT is killed. Centcomm official executed.
Deathsquad. Tyvm for event asshole.

Same with wjohnson spawning his stupid xeno event and getting upset + intervening when someone kills the xeno.
Wj got grilled for doing that shit over several rounds.

I hated it. People hated it. If you're gonna run some event, tell us beforehand so I can evaluate my decision and suicide afk on a role that doesn't matter.
I'm saying this because it happened,

Edit:
No. Absolutely not. I make the decisions on my arrests and sentencing. Only the warden and above can change that. And if they abuse that power I have the right to stop them overriding me.

With this admin judge idea if I don't like your sentence, I can't conspire with other sec to take your ass down.

I'm not bending over and letting you give a sentence for me.

wouldn't be in the courtroom
as it stands right now my idea is that there would be some kind of radio or machine or computer or whatever in the brig that would put officers in contact with the judge.

@jmad

I don't like spawning ERT and I wouldn't create a feature that encouraged it. That's not what this idea is for.
This will not result in the pressing of any admin buttons.
The entire point of this is to try to get LESS "admin" involvement and more IC stuff going on.

who? wrote:I'm pretty serious about my post because it has happened before

Admins have spawned centcomm officials/snowflake xenos/some other shit, and they try to mess the round up.

Captain doesn't like the centcomm official messing with the round
next thing we get an arrest warrant
So centcomm official arrested, admin sends a fucking ERT because his idea of event or intervention is shut down and it's "player admin escalation".
ERT is killed. Centcomm official executed.
Deathsquad. Tyvm for event asshole.

Same with wjohnson spawning his stupid xeno event and getting upset + intervening when someone kills the xeno.
Wj got grilled for doing that shit over several rounds.

I hated it. People hated it. If you're gonna run some event, tell us beforehand so I can evaluate my decision and suicide afk on a role that doesn't matter.
I'm saying this because it happened,

Hey can someone say who wrote this post? I have no idea since it is not signed.
-turtle

danno wrote:wouldn't be in the courtroom
as it stands right now my idea is that there would be some kind of radio or machine or computer or whatever in the brig that would put officers in contact with the judge.

@jmad

I don't like spawning ERT and I wouldn't create a feature that encouraged it. That's not what this idea is for.
This will not result in the pressing of any admin buttons.
The entire point of this is to try to get LESS "admin" involvement and more IC stuff going on.

If I can't arrest, brig, and demote you for intervening in my arrest or sentencing without being punished I don't want it.

danno wrote:It would probably have to be optional, at least when first implemented, just for the sake of practicality
which makes me think it probably wouldn't be used that much, which is a problem
not really sure what to do about that quite yet

I'm not trying to pose this as a way for admins to breathe down your neck, posed to strike you down the moment you step out of line. I'm trying to ease the stress on security staff by putting decisions like that out of their hands, so they can go "Well, Centcom has spoken. Into perma you go." or whatever. Maybe with a little bit of that help I figure security-crew relationships might become a little less tense and who knows, maybe even result in LESS gray tiding.

Maybe it SHOULD be a ghost role of some kind, albeit one with some very clear boundaries on just what they can and can't do.

>IC conflict is half the game
>lets try taking that out and having the admins prevent all conflict so they don't have to do their job
And honestly this wouldn't ease stress on me especially if centcomm gives me some decision I have to enforce that I know will screw me over later. The security-crew relationship honestly isn't always that tense, it's just those people that want to start a riot over one of their tide-buddies getting arrested. Having an admin say their decision won't stop them from attacking the people enforcing it. And lol no please don't be a ghost role. If I execute some guy and he becomes judge he will take every opportunity to screw over security, and metagrudge can be very hard to prove. No matter what you say it still feels like admins breathing down my neck. That's the exact feeling I got when an admin bwoinked me over detaining someone for all of two minutes and I feel like I'd get this feeling from this too.

danno wrote: The entire point of this is to try to get LESS "admin" involvement and more IC stuff going on.

Sorry for double post but how is it IC if an admin tells you what to do in the situation

Because I'm not sure if it even would be an admin yet, and it would be told ICly anyway.

BeeSting12 wrote: >IC conflict is half the game
>lets try taking that out and having the admins prevent all conflict so they don't have to do their job

not sure what your thought process is here, this doesn't really remove conflict it just shifts the blame

BeeSting12 wrote: And lol no please don't be a ghost role. If I execute some guy and he becomes judge he will take every opportunity to screw over security, and metagrudge can be very hard to prove.

It's not that hard to prove it when people are deliberately fucking over people with ghost roles to be honest
that's a banning

You guys gotta understand, if implemented properly this person would be your ally, not your enemy. Not someone to contradict what you want to be done, just to give more consistent sentencing. You two are already choosing to put yourself at odds with this hypothetical role.

Look, I'm just spitballing here.
I think there have to be some more ways we can make interactions between security and criminals result in less salty adminhelps all around. If you have suggestions, by all means.

J_Madison wrote: If I can't arrest, brig, and demote you for intervening in my arrest or sentencing without being punished I don't want it.

not really following you anymore here

If properly implemented I have a pAI that speaks for me, or a warden that already sentences fairly.

Ifunreasonably implemented, I have an admin mandated lawyer.

A normal lawyer -if they get into the way and make sec unbearable to play- I can arrest brig and demote with little consequence.

With an admin mandated lawyer or judge, I can't do that. If I try, I lose. If I disobey, I lose.

danno this is called a warden

danno wrote: I think there have to be some more ways we can make interactions between security and criminals result in less salty adminhelps all around. If you have suggestions, by all means.

However you make the judge, be it a ghost role, an admin, or something else, do you really think it'll make there be less salty adminhelps? If it's an admin maybe you can just slam the IC issue button without investigation but if it's a player/ghost role it's literally the same process except now you have to talk to a minimum of three people: The arresting officer, judge, and criminal, and others involved. Why do you think that the judge will have such great judgement that less adminhelps will be made? We are all imperfect people playing an imperfect game, and I mean this literally, no word filter there. We're all imperfect, we'd all make imperfect rulings. Admins do it, players do it, this mythical judge will probably do it just as much as either and probably cause policy issues.

My suggestion is leave it as it is. It is a system that has worked for so many years and from what I can tell, the salty adminhelps about security go back to as long as we've had admins.

If someone was using a role like this to make things deliberately unbearable you would adminhelp it anyway

I disagree that the system has worked for so many years.
I've been around for a pretty long time as a player and I don't think that in my experience it works that well.
I've been around for comparatively little time as an admin and I've had to deal with a silly amount of security related issues that convince me that it doesn't work very well.
I mean, for fuck's sake, "shitcurity" is like one of the biggest, most quintessential memes we have

I think it's true that the warden is probably supposed to fill this role though
maybe there's a way to get them more involved with that

danno wrote:If someone was using a role like this to make things deliberately unbearable you would adminhelp it anyway

I disagree that the system has worked for so many years.
I've been around for a pretty long time as a player and I don't think that in my experience it works that well.
I've been around for comparatively little time as an admin and I've had to deal with a silly amount of security related issues that convince me that it doesn't work very well.
I mean, for fuck's sake, "shitcurity" is like one of the biggest, most quintessential memes we have

I think it's true that the warden is probably supposed to fill this role though
maybe there's a way to get them more involved with that

Maybe so but it feels like you're trying to fill the warden's role here. Get wardens to do their job rather than validhunt with the armory in their bag and you got my support.

Yeah that's probably the play to make

Why not have it on a big televised screen and then have the judge speak out of local speakers to stop channel spam. For example send out a request for a judge from the security ID panel/HOS computer, it'll contact a admin & put out a notice to admins & a notice to the station that court will be proceeding soon. Admin presses a button at judge desk to turn on the television & activate the speakers.

You'll see the judge in light a 3x3 (maybe 3x2 space) seated at a table with a gavel who can react but is not in any danger, they can see the court through a advanced camera console infront of them, and likewise the audience can see him. Then obviously begin the court proceedings.

Television judges are amusing anyway.

If this was implemented I'd bomb the judge interface every round because fuck that noise. Security usually has at least one big boy who can keep the manchildren in line, they dont need help.

Admins have a button to just rebuild it, fixed. But its just for impersonal court proceedings if all of sec are dead.

Saves time making a IC centcomm judge persona, and walking over to the court because usually any form of courtroom trial is a admin driven thing. Really puts into perspective how lawyers are literally just there by chance for 1/100 rounds when people bother to run a trial instead of powergame & kill traitors outright for a slight.