Revolver Rebalance and Syndicate Hollowpoints.

[Dr_bee]

The Current Revolver
With a few of the maps having public autolathes I think the power of the syndicate revolver is a bit too strong. It it possible for an enterprising traitor to fill his backpack with ammunition and be a walking wall of death, able to kill from a screen away.

The current damage of the revolver is 60 brute per bullet, that means 2 shots puts you into crit, making a revolver a possible 3 kills per speed loader. not only this, the revolver can be reloaded on the move, giving them a distinct advantage over almost everything that security has access to at round start.

The Proposed Revolver Change
I have a suggestion to make hoarding revolver ammo from a public autolathe a bit less effective but still strong. It would involve reducing the damage of standard autolathe revolver bullets to 40 damage per hit, this brings the revolver from a 2 shot crit to a 3 shot crit on unarmored targets.

To make the revolver still a good pick, I also suggest adding special ammunition purchasable from the upload called Syndicate Hollow points, these should cost 2 to 3 telecrystals per speed loader, and do the original revolvers 60 brute damage against unarmored targets, with less armor penetration than the standard 40 damage revolver bullets. The Revolver will come with these rounds already loaded in them standard.

Conclusion
With these changes, a revolver's long term killing power is reduced somewhat, while still leaving it as a powerful tool for small skirmishes or assassinations.
as the max crits per speedloader gained from the autolathe will be reduces from 3 to 2, and armored targets will be able to survive 3 hits from it, albeit very wounded.

The addition of hollow points will allow the revolver to have somewhat of its old killing power but still nerf its effectiveness against armored targets like security officers or people in hardsuits.

This should give the crew a bit more of a fighting chance against a revolver murder spree, as well as opens up a few more counter plays against revolvers overall by increasing the effectiveness of armor against it.

[D&B]

I ded pls nerfe

[Karp]

Nerfing the damage to 40 will make the stechkin more popular as you have a full magazine of 30 damage bullets

I dont know the specific math but against sec armor that means it would require 5 shots to crit now i believe, and an absurdly high amount against ballistic vests unless your armor gets bypassed

There's no need behind it, the only balance issues related to the revolver lie in public autolathes on certain maps making your ammo production a joke, and if you are cargo/engineering/science you have easier murderbone tools that are more devastating for less

even that isn't bad as everyone can see the man mass printing .357 in the middle of the science hallway/the person stealing the autolathe to hide it in some corner only have themselves to blame at the end of the day

i don't blame you for disliking the one tap combat style as it's awful design wise but it's a part of the game. If you want to have any grounds for having some positive reaction to it you could raise the bleed damage it inflicts on unarmored targets so that being shot isn't something people can shrug off but just kneejerk nerfing it is dumb

[XDTM]

If it's awful design-wise but part of the game, we could, well, make it not part of the game.

Also this is a pretty nice way to nerf it imo, those who buy it for a single easy kill still get it and those that want to two-shot murderbone now have to return to the autolathe more often and have a less free kill on unarmed crew. And shooting the guys geared for combat would be harder, yes, which is pretty fair, i think.

[Dr_bee]

I ded pls nerfe

Hey they put some thought into the ided instead of reposting "pls remov from autolathe"

The thought that brought this up was less dieing to a revolver murderbone and more realizing that the revolver was implemented when the autolathe was only in cargo or involved building your own.

the implementation of the public autolathe to most maps was definately an improvement to the user experience but it did unbalance a few things, ammunition availablility for traitors being the major one.

On the subject of the stechkin, the revolver does has a few advantages even with a damage nerf, and one of them is ease of reloading. where the autolathe cannot produce magazines for the stechkin it can produce full speedloaders for the revolver, making reloading over the long term much faster, unless you spend TC buying a bunch of stechkin mags.

[FantasticFwoosh]

People under-use stetchkin alternative ammunition already, to the point whether there was a discussion about removing it. Really you could compact this idea into the minor ideas thread in saying

Syndicate revolver - reduced the item's base damage (which makes it pointless with 6 shots of normal ammo) and gave it some TC ammo that is penetrating & summarily just a little bit higher damage.

Going that direction, if the detectives handgun & the traitor handgun can't duel at relatively equal playing fields (or to counter propose the traitor pistol is a reskin of det gun with the same damage & ammo, but can buy unique TC ammo, meaning the det can salvage open uplinks for better ammo) then its better off scrapping it for alternatives or just making the stetchkin the default option setting for traitors wanting to buy a offensive gun.

[J_Madison]

It's reasonably baanced.

[Dr_bee]

well another alternative would be to keep the damage the way it is but have the autolathe print boxes of ammo instead of speed loaders. have speed loaders themselves be re-loadable and purchasable for TC. this would make it similar to the stetchkin in that sense as it would limit your quick reloads a bit. I dont feel it would reduce the power of the revolver enough for my taste but it would make using the revolver in a sustained gunfight require a bit more TC to pull off.

Also empty boxes of ammo really shouldnt be recyclable for the full metal cost, that makes no sense and remove any of the cost of producing ammo in the first place. Metal is already easy enough to find without making ammo production basically free after you find it.

[BeeSting12]

I think it's reasonably balanced but on the other hand DrBee is right with the thing about speedloaders being recycled for full value. I'd say subtract about 4000 units for recycling if this actually needs a nerf. (two sheets of metal for reference, literally weld down a wall) It really doesn't need a nerf though, it takes one stun and the revolver nigger is ded.

[XDTM]

Not all combat is against security with ranged stuns, and a careful revolverer can make easy work of crew that would normally have a chance by disarming or using ghetto weapons. And considering that it outranges tasers and can have far more shots in a single fight, it's definitely not a given that a security officer could take on a shooter. Especially if the shooter shoots first, which means that two or three shots could land before the taser comes out.

Taking one more shot to kill (if you don't buy ammo with TC) adds one more chance to dodge for crew that tries to run, and makes the shooter take more trips to the autolathe increasing the window of vulnerability, which reduces the you're-dead-if-you-aren't-security factor of the revolver a bit.

[BeeSting12]

Yeah no shit a 13 TC item should make quick work of crew that is trying to kill him with their bare hands or some ghetto weapon made in under thirty seconds. And XDTM, have you ever seen someone try dodging when they have 80 brute damage in them?

[XDTM]

Better odds than 120, and the traitor would still have to consume more ammo per kill.
Also, traitors don't need to go loud, and don't have bloodthirsty masses that know their identity if they don't. Going loud unprepared is a fuckup, not a playstyle, and having a weapon that is able to deal with that kind of situation from the start at the press of a button seems like hugbox to me.

[DemonFiren]

Man up and git gud.

[XDTM]

Man up and git gud.

Exactly, you can deal going from a ranged two-shot kill to a ranged three-shot kill just fine.

[DemonFiren]

Man up and git gud.

Exactly, you can deal going from a ranged two-shot kill to a ranged three-shot kill just fine.

Man up and git gud.

[Reece]

Man up and git gud.

Exactly, you can deal going from a ranged two-shot kill to a ranged three-shot kill just fine.

Man up and git gud.

> Needs insta kill double tap gun to gutten gooden.
> Tells others to git gud.
> Scumbag Steve plays spessmen.

In all seriousness, is the Revolver that much of an issue?

[Armhulen]

No, in reality it isn't.

[Reece]

No, in reality it isn't.

Yeah, honestly I've never really seen it get used to massively murderbone, security can carry eguns, where one hit on stamina means GG no re for the tator tot; deswords are superior boning devices.