The Eternal 'Port Baymed' Thread

[Stickymayhem]

Bottom post of the previous page:

As I see it, the issue is one of playstyle.

We play on a server that many people play on purely because it is so mechanical. They use everything they can to get an advantage so they can win. I don't like this but I like the server and the people on it.

These mechanics-minded players will despise any change to make something more difficult, because it's essentially a nerf. I love running around slapping on bruise packs and feeling better without having to stop off at Medbay, but it's silly and kills opportunities for interacting with other players.

I think baymed is an absolutely ridiculous idea to implement, however. It is completely incompatible with the people who play here, especially on Sibyl, but I do agree that a better medical system needs to happen eventually.

I think once you implement a system halfway between the current one and baymed, these players will hopefully take it as a hint that fighting isn't the only way to resolve situations. I don't like that it's impossible to threaten people or talk to an officer before you get stunned and dunked halfway through typing 90% of the time. It would be nice if combat was more punishing and thus talking was a more rewarding option mechanically. Why stop you in a hallway and talk when I can stuncuff you and ask you the same question with no real danger to myself? This attitude will still be present, but hopefully lessened.

Anyway I think Steel's med or some variant thereof would be best. Full on baymed just won't work on sibyl.

[MisterPerson]

Full on baymed just won't work on sibyl.

This. Stop suggesting it. A sizable number of posts on /vg/ are people complaining about Baymed and its consequences. A tweaked system is obviously fine, but the biggest flaw is simply that if you absolutely must go to Medbay to get healed and the medical doctors can't heal you, you're fucked. So whatever system that gets put in place must mitigate that somehow.

[AseaHeru]

the biggest flaw is simply that if you absolutely must go to Medbay to get healed and the medical doctors can't heal you, you're fucked. So whatever system that gets put in place must mitigate that somehow.

Allready suggested, see posts for data.

(Mostly SteelMed suggestion, with surgery not totally needed, and do remember that antags get instaheal items, ghetto surgery exists(!) and frankly you will still beable to tell medical to fuck off aslong as you can get a friend to cut youi up with glass, seal the hole with a cig and change your gender with wirecutters..

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Who cares if ghetto surgery exists.

The point is that you shouldn't depend on other people to be fully healthy, period.

Is there seriously any reason to implement this besides "we think it's cool"?

Because the reason "MD has nothing to do" is invalid. If you cared about jobs that have nothing to do, you'd create threads for plenty of other jobs that don't affect absolutely everybody to make them better.

[Steelpoint]

Ghetto surgery usually entails doing the procedure on yourself, thus not entirely dependant on other people for medical attention.

Though we do currently rely on other people to preform a massive array of tasks.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

When will you fucking understand that you're dealing with fundamental game system that affects EVERYBODY WITHOUT EXCEPTION

It's why atmos and singularity are incredibly easy to set up. Because if they're not, everyone's fucked. Well it's absolutely the same.

You start with power in APCs and full rooms of air. Let's imagine that you lose all power and air and you do not generate any (for example, the singulo and atmosia are super hard to set up and it takes ages for even competent person).

NOTHING CAN FUNCTION, EVERYTHING'S SUPER BAD

Now, everyone starts with full health. But what if you lose health...

If medical system is overcomplicated and hard to work with, you're also fucked. The reason it's simplistic is because it SHOULD BE

[Steelpoint]

I'm not advocating we go the full real life medical system, basic four life signs, your systolic over diastolic, infection control, Nurses and Doctors and Surgeons and full proper Triage and blood and panic, wheelchairs and emotional trauma and all that real life drama oh my god my head.

What we are looking for is a expanded medical system, that provides more unique ways to treat medical conditions, creates organic game content, makes running head first into a traitor with a gun because your a idiot something to think twice on when that bullet suddenly disables your left arm several minutes after the fact.

In the system I proposed, you can still heal yourself via ghetto surgery if you really, really, REALLY don't want to even think of someone else even looking at you.

Sometimes I think you think this is a single player game, not a multiplayer game with up to 60 people where interaction between people is one of the actual draws to the game.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Oh, so free for all is now single player

and obviously we shouldn't create dependencies on others because I'm unsociable, not because it's a poor design in this case

[MisterPerson]

Allready suggested, see posts for data.

I read them both. Not very well, granted, but they both seemed fine. I was mostly talking both to everyone at large and to anyone who was planning on either extending the idea or actually implementing it. The design absolutely must take into account how usable any new systems are.

It's easy to miss the forest for the trees in a long discussion like this, so I just wanted to bring attention back to a major point some people were glossing over.

[Reimoo]

People keep arguing how if the medbay is disabled for whatever reason the entire crew will not be able to reliably heal themselves... Isn't that kind of the point? Why do you think traitors attack medbay in the first place? If any department is sabotaged, the entire station is affected, either directly or indirectly. Why should medbay be any different?

Now, does this mean every time medbay is attacked, that should cripple the entire station? Of course not. Only in the case where a department is so irreversibly fucked beyond repair does that ever happen, and in which case the rest of the station is quite likely to be as equally as bad. Besides, even if the medbay is out of commission, ghetto surgery is already a solution we have in place, as noted by several people already.

If, on the other hand, medbay is disabled due to incompetent staff, it shouldn't be a problem considering noob doctors haven't stopped people from breaking in and taking/using what they need to heal themselves anyway.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Why should medbay be any different?

It's not.

Now, does this mean every time medbay is attacked, that should cripple the entire station? Of course not. Only in the case where a department is so irreversibly fucked beyond repair does that ever happen

Well, that's what happens now.

[Psyentific]

Not really, no. It's only fucked if the cloner is fucked, and even then not if R&D knows what they're doing.

[Lo6a4evskiy]

What is your point? He said that it should fuck people up when sabotaged, well, there you go, if cloner is fucked, people are gonna be fucked. That's what I said as well. You just said "No, you're wrong, actually what you said is correct".

[Void Slayer]

Instead of requiring surgery, why not make some chemicals that also treat serious wounds over a long period of time with like 30-50 units. Make them very specific, like to a specific limb, but anyone with a chem dispenser can potentially make them.

The key problem with the proposed medical system is that unlike any other system in the game it absolutely would require someone else to help you.

Right now you can not perform surgery on yourself.

[Yoshmaster]

Yeah, part of the issue I think some people are taking with Baymed is that it's a huge pain if there are actually no medics at all. People are used to assistants setting up the engine on tg, so I get where that's coming from. How about a system where different types of weapons inflict various kinds of gradual damage? For example, a very sharp sword would inflict a large gash, which would cause some heavy blood loss, up until the wound clot. Treating the wound with "ghetto" materials, like a simple bruise pack, would slow down the rate of gradual damage and slightly reduce how much you would take overall. Staying still and resting could possibly reduce the effect even more. But if you take too much gradual damage, it's as if those folk remedies did nothing - patching a fatal wound with a band aid might reduce the bleeding a bit, but if you bleed too much it wouldn't make a difference.

So assistants that get in bar fights could probably "tank" out any small injuries they get (and possibly get some bad ass scars, to boot) but if you are seriously injured, it would probably be a good idea to get patched up in medbay. The actual medical procedures to treat those kinds of grievous injuries could include field surgery and a bunch of other fun stuff, too. Plus, the ghetto medical options would useful even in those situations, as they could keep someone alive until a doctor got to them. The only potential balance change you would need to make is to either buff medbay by reducing some damage values and putting the difference into gradual damage types, or by just adding extra gradual damage to certain weapons/disaster scenarios. The best part is that this system makes doctors necessary in situations where they would probably be necessary anyway: e.g. when you lose several limbs in a bombing, or when a traitor cuts your face off with an e sword.