[POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

A place to record your ideas for the game.

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Who should be able to detain/arrest/search/act with authority?

Only a Security Officer in uniform have authority to detain/arrest/search under suspicion of a crime.
12
13%
Only a Security Officer in uniform have authority to detain/arrest/search under suspicion of a crime.
12
13%
Only a Security Officer in uniform have authority to detain/arrest/search under suspicion of a crime.
12
13%
Anyone should have the authority to detain/arrest/search under suspicion of a crime.
8
9%
Anyone should have the authority to detain/arrest/search under suspicion of a crime.
8
9%
Anyone should have the authority to detain/arrest/search under suspicion of a crime.
8
9%
I'm fine with either, as long as people are dealt with under suspicion of a crime.
10
11%
I'm fine with either, as long as people are dealt with under suspicion of a crime.
10
11%
I'm fine with either, as long as people are dealt with under suspicion of a crime.
10
11%
idgaf
1
1%
idgaf
1
1%
idgaf
1
1%
 
Total votes : 93

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Fragnostic
 
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[POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Fragnostic » Thu Aug 07, 2014 2:57 am #23248

There are a lot of players absolutely convince that because they have certain tools in common with sec, they're meant to arrest, stun/cuff, detain, or hunt people.

You've seen them:
-mime with flash and cuffs dragging Urist McGreytide for breaking into EVA
-bartender abandoning post with his armor and shotgun out, patrolling the hallways
-detective(WHO ISNT SUPPOSED TO FUKKEN ARREST PEOPLE) tazing and random searching
-lawyer with flash and helmet and armor, locking people into cells

This shit has to stop. It's security's job to deal with this. If you want to help security, ask the HoS for an open position and go get the switch at HoP desk. The worst part is that these un-officers whine when they get their ass handed because what they are doing is really a kidnap attempt. Security should arrest THEM. The victims of the wrongful arrests shouldn't be punished for hurting these abductors; it should be upholded as self defencd. If it was rightful, it should be warned and if repeated, right or not, a brig for sure.

How it would be reduced:
•New policy with sec to punish those who arrest and aren't sec
•take away the bartender's armor
•reduce detective access so he can't get other tools like flashes
•reducer lawyer access
•make security's tools more scarce so that they are more conservative and less willing to distribute(or less accessible)

It's already frustrating to have to be arrested by meta gaming security, but when power-metagaming, validantaghunting non-officers act with an undeserved authority it frustrates me personally because they don't have that right, but don't have the restraint and responsibility of a real officer. They don't have a greytide to deal with after an arrest or a demotion or a lynching. Damn, I'm actually kinda steamed.
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cedarbridge
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:37 am #23249

I'm not seeing where its in the best interest of bystanders to let you go about committing crimes. If they see a crime in progress and the mime robusts you, deal with it. You got robusted by the mime and now you're getting brigged for it.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Steelpoint » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:46 am #23250

I think OP is referring to people who go out of their way in acting like a Sec Officer, such as getting equipment like flashes and cuffs and roaming around.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Lovecraft » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:53 am #23256

Unless the administration steps in and starts slapping validhunters on the spot I can't see this ever being fixed.
Which is a shame.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Kelenius » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:59 am #23257

And this is bad because?

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby paprika » Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:30 am #23259

Yeah we should encourage grey tiders to fight sec instead of work with them that's way better

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Reimoo » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:21 am #23262

Bystanders dunking an obvious antag I'm okay with. Validhunters not so much.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Raven776 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:31 am #23263

I think it really depends on the severity of the crime, the nature of the round, and everyone's motivations.

Obviously, a mime slapping cuffs on someone in Eva is pretty fucking sad. Because 1) Why the fuck should the mime care if this is a random person. 2) How the hell would the mime know they weren't supposed to be there (I can think of twelve different ways to beg for Eva access and get it), and 3) The breach of access that the mime would have needed to get to get access to Eva is more dangerous and bustable than someone getting into Eva.

But when we're talking about changeling rounds, wizard rounds, or high damage and danger traitor rounds (looking at you, double agent), then you've got a much weaker arguement towards validhunting. When there are changelings running through the hallways shrieking or puking out spiders, most/all of security is compromised, and you can only trust yourself, then printing out a pair of handcuffs in the autolathe and ordering guns from cargo is a whole lot more justifiable.

When your workspace is totaled or nonfunctioning, when the singularity is loose, when someone is reading WGW, or when Ian is killed, then you're dealing with a situation where nothing is going to be happening for anyone in the next 10 minutes but validhunting. The bartender can sit around with his shotgun and armor serving drinks to a braindead mime while mistaking him for being very good at being a mime, but when total anarchy hits the station, what's more fun?

And if you get robusted breaking into science, cargo, engineering, or (god forbid) the kitchen, be prepared to deal with whatever unholy punishment these sick, bored minds can think of.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Arete » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:05 am #23265

I don't think that "it's too difficult to get away with doing antag stuff" is really a valid complaint as the game balance currently stands.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Cheimon » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:46 am #23289

I think it's fine when bystanders jump in and help arrest people. Why shouldn't they? If they have the tools to do it, then the action makes sense. What they do after is probably more of an issue, whether they hand you over to security (good) or decide to imprison you themselves (bad).

Whatever the case, it's a refreshing third way compared to either (a) attack the criminal or (b) ignore the criminal. If you can stuncuff like the boys in red, do it.

Also, if an antagonist can do whatever they want, the crew needs to be able to do quite a lot in return to any antagonists. Otherwise it's just stupid.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Raven776 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:22 pm #23294

I've swirlied numerous antags to death. I've never got an admin bwoink from it in my life.

God damn I love to swirly antags to death. With the grab changes since the older days, it's fucking hard to shove them into that bathroom, but damn when you do... Shit gets real.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby bandit » Thu Aug 07, 2014 1:53 pm #23308

This is why Space Law has an entry for unauthorized possession of weapons, which would include most flashes/stunprods/etc used for this purpose. It's just that security rarely bothers, because people will bitch and bitch if they get dunked for this.

Obviously if there's a rampaging traitor with an e-sword and shit, that's different.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby peoplearestrange » Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:14 pm #23314

I'm not sure when this ever is a problem. I mean maybe having the mime stun cuff you in the corridor as an antag is annoying, but then again thats the price to play for going loud. And to be perfectly honest, on a space station in the middle of no where other people, whos job it is not, are going to get involved if they feel they are threatened. Hence why the bartender HAS a shotgun, keeping order until the fuzz actually show up seems fairly necessary (atypically on greytide heaven of Sybil).
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:54 pm #23341

I see no issues with people making arrests on behalf of Sec, should they see someone breaking the law. The only issue is where they take it too far and feel the need to kill or imprison said person, bypassing Sec altogether.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:58 pm #23342

I think that these vigilantes should be held accountable by admins for anything they do wrong, like false imprisonment or treating someone badly. If you want to play security, that's fine, but if you just make everyone's life hell, get bent.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby ShizCalev » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:07 pm #23344

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I think that these vigilantes should be held accountable by admins for anything they do wrong, like false imprisonment or treating someone badly. If you want to play security, that's fine, but if you just make everyone's life hell, get bent.


^
Hold them to the same standards as security if they're going to pretend to be them.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Ikarrus » Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:14 pm #23345

ShizCalev wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:I think that these vigilantes should be held accountable by admins for anything they do wrong, like false imprisonment or treating someone badly. If you want to play security, that's fine, but if you just make everyone's life hell, get bent.


^
Hold them to the same standards as security if they're going to pretend to be them.

This is what administration should already be doing. I've seen issues like this before and they've always been resolved along these lines.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:16 pm #23352

peoplearestrange wrote:I'm not sure when this ever is a problem. I mean maybe having the mime stun cuff you in the corridor as an antag is annoying, but then again thats the price to play for going loud. And to be perfectly honest, on a space station in the middle of no where other people, whos job it is not, are going to get involved if they feel they are threatened. Hence why the bartender HAS a shotgun, keeping order until the fuzz actually show up seems fairly necessary (atypically on greytide heaven of Sybil).

Essentially this. Almost every round as an RnD tech, I have a stun prod. Not because I'm a validhunter (though I have done so in the past) but because defending your department from "that guy" every shift is a needful thing. So I make sure to have a stun prod and a pair of cable cuffs on hand.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Kyrah Abattoir » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:02 pm #23364

I think any member of a department has a right to suppress an intruder until either security can deal with it, or in order to remove him from the area.

That's not a right to kill tho.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Bluespace » Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:24 pm #23366

Assistant with water bottle, cable cuffs, stunprod and flash arresting you for breaking into EVA?
I wish I could reprimand people like this.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby DrPillzRedux » Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:38 am #23373

Vigilantes should be valid to kill.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Swagile » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:10 am #23374

that feeling when, start of the round, you get flashed by a vigilante assistant who somehow managed to get a flash 2 minutes in because you broke into eva.


damn... them feels.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Fragnostic » Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:48 am #23378

Swagile wrote:that feeling when, start of the round, you get flashed by a vigilante assistant who somehow managed to get a flash 2 minutes in because you broke into eva.


damn... them feels.


This is really what I meant. Yes, if there are loud Changelings with arm blade/spacesuit then yes vigilantes pls.
But for little things, or acting like a a sec officer no. You should be able to help an officer subdue a suspect if they resist arrest, but you should never go out and be a fukken vigilante and then cry/ahelp/banbait/scream over radio for help for a fukken kidnap attempt. If you stun someone, you take away their ability to hurt you and resist, which implies harm or inconvenience. As a sec officer, this implies inconvenience because you're being detained/arrested. But if it's someone else, they could be taking you to maint to absorb you.

Point is, accept the risks before trying shit when you aren't authority. Because I've dunked those vigilantes who arrest for shitty , harmless reasons like theft, and they cry and complain and it's only punishment or consequences either way for the would-be victim.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby MedicInDisquise » Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:46 am #23398

Sigh. Validhunters. Usually not fun people to be around OOC and IC.

Just make them actually punishable with Rule 4
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and held to the same standard of security if they're not validhunting and just trying to protect their department or their life.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Stickymayhem » Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:06 am #23403

I already punish these people as if they were security. On a blue alert it's fair enough to catch people and bring the to the brig if they are clearly antag or it's part of an escalation but ruining antag rounds with random capture's and searches reeks of metagaming.

Part of the problem may be the view that security is incompetent in general and therefore "I gotta do it myself".
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby cedarbridge » Fri Aug 08, 2014 3:40 pm #23428

Fragnostic wrote:
Swagile wrote:that feeling when, start of the round, you get flashed by a vigilante assistant who somehow managed to get a flash 2 minutes in because you broke into eva.


damn... them feels.


This is really what I meant. Yes, if there are loud Changelings with arm blade/spacesuit then yes vigilantes pls.
But for little things, or acting like a a sec officer no. You should be able to help an officer subdue a suspect if they resist arrest, but you should never go out and be a fukken vigilante and then cry/ahelp/banbait/scream over radio for help for a fukken kidnap attempt. If you stun someone, you take away their ability to hurt you and resist, which implies harm or inconvenience. As a sec officer, this implies inconvenience because you're being detained/arrested. But if it's someone else, they could be taking you to maint to absorb you.

Point is, accept the risks before trying shit when you aren't authority. Because I've dunked those vigilantes who arrest for shitty , harmless reasons like theft, and they cry and complain and it's only punishment or consequences either way for the would-be victim.


The problem I have here is you admit that you're breaking in somewhere you don't belong, but because security wasn't there to see you do it that somehow makes it ok and everyone else should just let you do it. That itself is fairly shitty and its exactly the reason I'll merrily stun-cuff you for doing so. As was said, if sec can't do it, I might as well do my part and stop gap. I'm also not naive enough to think that somebody willing to break into eva won't later break into my robotics lab/RnD lab/Chem shed/etc. This is especially true if they've already got it in their head that the rank and file will/should leave them alone for other senseless B&E.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Fragnostic » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:56 am #23499

cedarbridge wrote:
The problem I have here is you admit that you're breaking in somewhere you don't belong, but because security wasn't there to see you do it that somehow makes it ok and everyone else should just let you do it. That itself is fairly shitty and its exactly the reason I'll merrily stun-cuff you for doing so. As was said, if sec can't do it, I might as well do my part and stop gap. I'm also not naive enough to think that somebody willing to break into eva won't later break into my robotics lab/RnD lab/Chem shed/etc. This is especially true if they've already got it in their head that the rank and file will/should leave them alone for other senseless B&E.


Look. How am I supposed to know that you want to arrest me and not absorb me/murder? The deal I have with you is the same rage security feels when you call them shitsec for a righteous arrest. If I dunk you for pulling that shit, you cry and get me arrested, or at times even BWOINKd. That's BANBAITING. You carry a stunprod and cuffs, 'just in case'. It's meta, it's powergaming, and shitty interaction/roleplay. If you fluked, then you bitch as a backup plan, to sec and or admins.

Just don't cry when I knock you and cuff you naked in dorms.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Alex Crimson » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:07 am #23501

Everyone metagames to a certain extent. Its impossible not to. Not carrying the tools to defend your workplace from people who want to steal shit or worse, kill you, is just fucking dumb.

This topic isnt very clear on the issue though. From the opening post, it looks like your problem is with antag hunters, not people who defend their workplace, correct? The two are different things.

Detectives are just normal Sec Officers with additional tools, arnt they? That is what i always thought.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Fragnostic » Sat Aug 09, 2014 2:56 am #23512

Alex Crimson wrote:Everyone metagames to a certain extent. Its impossible not to. Not carrying the tools to defend your workplace from people who want to steal shit or worse, kill you, is just fucking dumb.
Detectives are just normal Sec Officers with additional tools, arnt they? That is what i always thought.


You're right in the meta part. It is impossible. And I'm not really pissed off about antag hunters, but I think they assume people are antags. Or take the liberty to random search to discover antags via cuff and strip. This is meta/antaghunt/powergaming shittery. It's this. You aren't sec, so don't make round inconvenient for antags and nonantags. It's even bannu for killing an antag if there is no proof.

And no, mang, detective doesn't have a taser and shit 4 a raisin. He investigates and if he is hot in they're trail, he takes down the baddies with his boomstick, because they're probably ling or tator and will attack them. He's not a sec officer, he isn't an authority to arrest or search. He can ask and label you as a suspect to sec over radio that you refuse a search or aren't cooperative. He scans and takes prints, he investigates. The warden is supposed to stay at the brig unless a situation is high stress that requires all forces of the Security department who are able and equipped.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Scott » Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:39 am #23522

Alex Crimson wrote:
Detectives are just normal Sec Officers with additional tools, arnt they? That is what i always thought.


They only have basic brig access. They are reduced to the SO role because this isn't an RP heavy community and nobody goes to the detective for anything.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Gun Hog » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:13 am #23525

I say that Sec should deal with it as an IC issue, not an admin issue. If you have unwanted vigilantes, BRIG THEM!

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Douk » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:58 am #23532

Gun Hog wrote:I say that Sec should deal with it as an IC issue, not an admin issue. If you have unwanted vigilantes, BRIG THEM!

Basically this. We don't need to tack on more rules and more admin-enforced policies to stop player behaviors that aren't a total negative to the server and it's population. As a frequent security player, sometimes vigilantes (and to a lesser extent the more extreme validhunters) can play an integral part of the station's security when the actual department is low on manpower. Granted, both the captor and prisoner need to be interrogated on whatever charges the captor is claiming. If excessive force or illegal means were used to apprehend the prisoner, then the captor still gets punished (or at the very least has those items stripped from them). You may argue that "then they might as well be playing security," but that ignores the fact that security CANNOT do anything besides security work. An assistant with a stun prod and cable cuffs is less effective at what security is already doing, but they can also put the prod down and do other things should the need arise. They can step over the line to go places and do things that would be against security's usual code of conduct but get results in ways said security cannot replicate. Will they be punished IC if they use such methods and get caught (breaking into place A or B to chase someone, "advanced" interrogation techniques, infiltration, etc)? Absolutely. Do admins need to get involved if it doesn't involve murder or some other grievously dickish action that is truly inexcusable? No.
This is a situation that is for IC security to handle, not admins. Limiting player dynamics given the randomized nature of each individual round detracts greatly from the intent and overall design of the game itself. There are limits, but most players who act as vigilantes know those limits and respect them.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby cedarbridge » Sat Aug 09, 2014 8:43 am #23548

Fragnostic wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
The problem I have here is you admit that you're breaking in somewhere you don't belong, but because security wasn't there to see you do it that somehow makes it ok and everyone else should just let you do it. That itself is fairly shitty and its exactly the reason I'll merrily stun-cuff you for doing so. As was said, if sec can't do it, I might as well do my part and stop gap. I'm also not naive enough to think that somebody willing to break into eva won't later break into my robotics lab/RnD lab/Chem shed/etc. This is especially true if they've already got it in their head that the rank and file will/should leave them alone for other senseless B&E.


Look. How am I supposed to know that you want to arrest me and not absorb me/murder? The deal I have with you is the same rage security feels when you call them shitsec for a righteous arrest. If I dunk you for pulling that shit, you cry and get me arrested, or at times even BWOINKd. That's BANBAITING. You carry a stunprod and cuffs, 'just in case'. It's meta, it's powergaming, and shitty interaction/roleplay. If you fluked, then you bitch as a backup plan, to sec and or admins.

Just don't cry when I knock you and cuff you naked in dorms.

I mean, its really cute that you tried to paint me as some sort of greytider or something (the irony is not lost), but its a really shitty way to frame an argument. Please tell me when I did or implied I supported any of the things in this post. Unironically accusing me of banbaiting is childish and silly. By all means argue whatever point you have, but for godsakes be mature about it.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Fragnostic » Sun Aug 10, 2014 4:23 am #23608

cedarbridge wrote:
I mean, its really cute that you tried to paint me as some sort of greytider or something (the irony is not lost), but its a really shitty way to frame an argument. Please tell me when I did or implied I supported any of the things in this post. Unironically accusing me of banbaiting is childish and silly. By all means argue whatever point you have, but for godsakes be mature about it.


I wasn't accusing or implying to did it do anything wrong man. It just fucks with me that you defend all of this in a poor passive aggressive posting. You're pretending that you're not riled up, like you're toying with me, but you're just trying to look good. I'm not trying to look like the better man, I'm mad and I admit it, but I'm mad about this.Stop, because this gets off topic and I wanted to know what everyone thought about it.

And I'm not accusing you of greytiding, yet you specifically mentioned it. But I really meant everyone who isn't sec, man. Lawyers, the bartender, mime, detective, and at times the warden act like security when they're not doing they're job. There's no reason to defend it unless it's something you do. Yes, NOW I'm accusing/implying. Maybe jobbans should be handed out for shitty brig reasons. Just because you managed to stun-cuff a guy and drag them to brig doesn't mean they did something wrong that any other officer would wave off.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby cedarbridge » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:06 pm #23655

Fragnostic wrote:
cedarbridge wrote:
I mean, its really cute that you tried to paint me as some sort of greytider or something (the irony is not lost), but its a really shitty way to frame an argument. Please tell me when I did or implied I supported any of the things in this post. Unironically accusing me of banbaiting is childish and silly. By all means argue whatever point you have, but for godsakes be mature about it.


I wasn't accusing or implying to did it do anything wrong man. It just fucks with me that you defend all of this in a poor passive aggressive posting. You're pretending that you're not riled up, like you're toying with me, but you're just trying to look good. I'm not trying to look like the better man, I'm mad and I admit it, but I'm mad about this.Stop, because this gets off topic and I wanted to know what everyone thought about it.

And I'm not accusing you of greytiding, yet you specifically mentioned it. But I really meant everyone who isn't sec, man. Lawyers, the bartender, mime, detective, and at times the warden act like security when they're not doing they're job. There's no reason to defend it unless it's something you do. Yes, NOW I'm accusing/implying. Maybe jobbans should be handed out for shitty brig reasons. Just because you managed to stun-cuff a guy and drag them to brig doesn't mean they did something wrong that any other officer would wave off.


And that's why IRL citizen's arrests have such high requirements of proof of harm to make them permissible without legal repercussions for the arresting party. The same can equally be handled IC on the station as well. Banning people for arresting an assistant breaking into EVA is a waste of admin resources and just encourages more shitty smash-and-grab behavior. Also, if security is brigging people for being accused of crimes without any witnesses or corroborating evidence, they're stupid, but not stupid to a degree that should be no-questions-asked banworthy. I honestly don't like the "police IC behavior with OOC punishments" thing. Especially in this case. It makes sense where the activities are directly malicious, but arresting somebody breaking into something is hardly malicious and the only person mad about it is the guy that got caught.

For reference, if I see Greytide McGrifferson breaking into say, robotics, as a passerby and I don't see any reason for them to be doing so that is not malicious (saving somebody else being attacked, clearing an escape route for somebody, etc) you're damn right I'm going to dunk that guy. The right to protect one's department doesn't apply to me in this case (we'll assume its not my department anyway) but I have reason to suspect that a bad person is planning to do bad things because they just smashed a window in front of me. It would actually be even more irresponsible for me to just wander off and do nothing. There's no reason for me to be punished for doing this unless I was actually harming somebody that actually had a right to be where they were in the first place. Security, like the police, cannot be expected to be everywhere. Its not the crew's obligation to make it easy for antags/non-antags to break in/steal wherever and whatever they want.

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby MrMindless » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:07 am #23697

in case of the detective, if a round has few or maybe no officers there should be absolutely no problem with the detective stepping in to act as a security officer, and rounds without security officers are plenty

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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Steelpoint » Mon Aug 11, 2014 1:12 am #23698

It should just be simple, if your going to act like a Security Officer and make a citizens arrest, you should be held to the same standard that Security is held to.

That's all there is to it.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby Rolan7 » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:19 am #24484

Poll has an issue, since it lumps the detective in with civilians. Detective has a stun weapon so he can stop perps if they refuse searching.

Stickymayhem wrote:I already punish these people as if they were security. On a blue alert it's fair enough to catch people and bring the to the brig if they are clearly antag or it's part of an escalation but ruining antag rounds with random capture's and searches reeks of metagaming.

Part of the problem may be the view that security is incompetent in general and therefore "I gotta do it myself".


I think that view has a lot to do with admins cracking down on security for doing their jobs. Blue alert means known threat, random searches are allowed.
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Re: [POLL]Minor Ideas to Reduce Un-Officers

Postby callanrockslol » Sun Aug 17, 2014 8:38 am #24492

The biggest problem with OPs idea is that 9/10 times you don't get arrested by some random passer by, they either join you in breaking in, report you over the radio or just don't give a shit.

That other 1/10 is you getting murdered, powergaming vigilantes don't take cuffs, they play for keeps, Space Justice.


Also worth noting that powergamers won't beat someone to death for breaking a door open they aren't directly responsible for due to fear of bans.
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