/tg/Station 13

Look, one of the biggest problems with /tg/ is this idea that security and and antags need to "win" the round. It doesnt matter if there was a good story or not it just matters that my side "won." To be perfectly honest this gets in the way of good roleplay, as security has to be hard-asses about any traitorous activity if they want to "win" and traitors cant run gimmicks because of this culture of "gotta get dat greentext" or "gotta deny dat greentext."

My suggestion would be to simply no longer track objectives at the round end screen. You see who is a traitor, what they bought, and thats it, no location or status of the traitor and no greentext to gloat about.

this would only really apply to traitor and traitor/lings but still. It may tone down the level of power-gaming on both sides if rolling traitor was just an open ended license to griff and shutting them down as security if they are harmless does literally nothing but make the round boring. no green-text denial to make you feel good about yourself.

Discussion has been had before, and it boils down to:

Pros:
No more GOTTA GET THAT GREEN/REDTEXT

Cons:
No more oriented goals for antagonists, leading to even more LOL RANDOM MURDER

Solves nothing, very very shortsighted and ill informed viewpoint of the problems with the game.

D, see me after class.

PKPenguin321 wrote:Discussion has been had before, and it boils down to:

Pros:
No more GOTTA GET THAT GREEN/REDTEXT

Cons:
No more oriented goals for antagonists, leading to even more LOL RANDOM MURDER

Well I am not suggesting we get rid of giving them goals to begin with, just have them be the reason why they were sent there as a roleplay prompt.

and there is literally nothing stopping traitors from LOL RANDOM MURDER now, Traitor is a free licence to griff. The problem is how that griff is done is somewhat limited by need to win.

We may get more random murder, but it quite possibly could be creative, more gimmicky murder. Basically give some breathing room for gimmicks.

captain sawrge wrote:Solves nothing, very very shortsighted and ill informed viewpoint of the problems with the game.

D, see me after class.

What does greentext add to the game right now sawrge besides justification for shitty behavior?

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:Discussion has been had before, and it boils down to:

Pros:
No more GOTTA GET THAT GREEN/REDTEXT

Cons:
No more oriented goals for antagonists, leading to even more LOL RANDOM MURDER

Well I am not suggesting we get rid of giving them goals to begin with, just have them be the reason why they were sent there as a roleplay prompt.

and there is literally nothing stopping traitors from LOL RANDOM MURDER now, Traitor is a free licence to griff. The problem is how that griff is done is somewhat limited by need to win.

We may get more random murder, but it quite possibly could be creative, more gimmicky murder. Basically give some breathing room for gimmicks.

On the other hand, there is literally nothing stopping traitors from ignoring their objectives and doing gimmicks as it is.

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:Discussion has been had before, and it boils down to:

Pros:
No more GOTTA GET THAT GREEN/REDTEXT

Cons:
No more oriented goals for antagonists, leading to even more LOL RANDOM MURDER

Well I am not suggesting we get rid of giving them goals to begin with, just have them be the reason why they were sent there as a roleplay prompt.

and there is literally nothing stopping traitors from LOL RANDOM MURDER now, Traitor is a free licence to griff. The problem is how that griff is done is somewhat limited by need to win.

We may get more random murder, but it quite possibly could be creative, more gimmicky murder. Basically give some breathing room for gimmicks.

On the other hand, there is literally nothing stopping traitors from ignoring their objectives and doing gimmicks as it is.

Except the glaring incentive for security to shit on them for being antagonists just because they are antagonists and not because they have killed anyone or something.

The only thing I can think of to change that behavior outside of admins actually enforcing some sort of "Space Law" (which we know is a bad idea) is to remove the incentive for sec to blanket murder/perma traitors for being traitors instead of treating the crimes they commit like crimes. If the only thing they get out of permaing a traitor who was only caught with non-lethal contraband is a more boring round, maybe they will stop it.

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:Discussion has been had before, and it boils down to:

Pros:
No more GOTTA GET THAT GREEN/REDTEXT

Cons:
No more oriented goals for antagonists, leading to even more LOL RANDOM MURDER

Well I am not suggesting we get rid of giving them goals to begin with, just have them be the reason why they were sent there as a roleplay prompt.

and there is literally nothing stopping traitors from LOL RANDOM MURDER now, Traitor is a free licence to griff. The problem is how that griff is done is somewhat limited by need to win.

We may get more random murder, but it quite possibly could be creative, more gimmicky murder. Basically give some breathing room for gimmicks.

On the other hand, there is literally nothing stopping traitors from ignoring their objectives and doing gimmicks as it is.

Except the glaring incentive for security to shit on them for being antagonists just because they are antagonists and not because they have killed anyone or something.

in what way does removing greentext fix this

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Dr_bee wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:Discussion has been had before, and it boils down to:

Pros:
No more GOTTA GET THAT GREEN/REDTEXT

Cons:
No more oriented goals for antagonists, leading to even more LOL RANDOM MURDER

Well I am not suggesting we get rid of giving them goals to begin with, just have them be the reason why they were sent there as a roleplay prompt.

and there is literally nothing stopping traitors from LOL RANDOM MURDER now, Traitor is a free licence to griff. The problem is how that griff is done is somewhat limited by need to win.

We may get more random murder, but it quite possibly could be creative, more gimmicky murder. Basically give some breathing room for gimmicks.

On the other hand, there is literally nothing stopping traitors from ignoring their objectives and doing gimmicks as it is.

Except the glaring incentive for security to shit on them for being antagonists just because they are antagonists and not because they have killed anyone or something.

in what way does removing greentext fix this

It gives them nothing extra for doing it, which is the only thing I can think to do about it outside of policy changes

I'd think they can get "soft" objectives (Do you feel like you've accomplished this? Do you feel like you've met expectations? For more simple things we can have code to track how well they did it.) instead of "hard" objectives (WIN/LOSS BINARY).
Better than no objectives at all which would, like PK said, probably lead to "LOL LICENSE TO GRIEF TIME TO REMOVE EVERYONE FROM THE ROUND!!"

Dude if I kill an antagonist as security it's not because of cucking them out of greentext, it's because they're a threat to the station and they need to die for whatever crimes they've done, if none then I perma them or tracker/chem/release.

kevinz000 wrote:I'd think they can get "soft" objectives (Do you feel like you've accomplished this? Do you feel like you've met expectations? For more simple things we can have code to track how well they did it.) instead of "hard" objectives (WIN/LOSS BINARY).
Better than no objectives at all which would, like PK said, probably lead to "LOL LICENSE TO GRIEF TIME TO REMOVE EVERYONE FROM THE ROUND!!"

That is what I am going for, use objectives as a roleplay prompt and not something to gloat over.

You're looking for https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32

What a stupid fucking idea

Peoole like you should be put in a porta potty and rolled down a steep incline.

Super Aggro Crag wrote:What a stupid fucking idea

Peoole like you should be put in a porta potty and rolled down a steep incline.

What a completely useless post.

Maybe tell me why it is such a bad idea and change my mind about it instead.

A good portion of tators/lings ignore objectives and just murderbone/do random cuck shit anyway.

The only time having objectives isn't is the (relatively) small group of players that will do their objective with zero player interaction then braindead/do nothing else antagonistic for the rest of the round.

Murderboning memesters are far worse than afking plebs - and if you don't have some sort of objective you're left with just doing random shit to amuse yourself, which for an alarming number of players, is shitting on everyone else as hard as possible.

Half the time as a tator I just ignore my objective and fuck about. Even doing stuff like emagging all doors or fucking with people in (NON EROTIC) ways that would otherwise get me banned.

Greentext is only as valuable as you make it.

Greentext is a fun way for new players to get direction and rewarding feeling of success

BeeSting12 wrote:Dude if I kill an antagonist as security it's not because of cucking them out of greentext, it's because they're a threat to the station and they need to die for whatever crimes they've done, if none then I perma them or tracker/chem/release.

To add to this, security needs to kill known antagonists for the meta reason that they know these players have free reign to kill whomever they want. Failing in this regard opens you up to getting shit on in OOC/having admins mock you through CentComm announcements. This is all a systemic problem with no easy solution.

Nobody really cares about greentext, though.

Make the actual objectives hidden only to the player, just display if the Traitor succeeded in finishing all their objectives.

Steelpoint wrote:Make the actual objectives hidden only to the player, just display if the Traitor succeeded in finishing all their objectives.

fixes literally nothing

Lumbermancer wrote:Nobody really cares about greentext, though.

Armhulen wrote:Greentext is a fun way for new players to get direction and rewarding feeling of success

You're implying there's anything to fix.

I really don't think anything needs changing, my suggestion is a minor off the cuff one.

Steelpoint wrote:You're implying there's anything to fix.

I really don't think anything needs changing, my suggestion is a minor off the cuff one.

Good! We should keep greentext.

If you're looking for roleplay prompt objectives, how about:

You are a traitor!
You have been deployed to the station with orders to [objective goes here]
With the possible objectives being:

• Ruin the station's power supply, disrupting their mission.
• Cause unrest among the crew, undermining their trust in authority.
• Evacuate the station, and [do something] once the crew has escaped.
• Take control of the station by any means (take captaincy, political coup, etc) and [do something].
• Make a statement, and make sure the crew hears it.
• Release a sickness among the crew.
• [do something bad], prompting the crew to take the shuttle. Once on it, change its route to the syndicate HQ.
• Get away with as much valuable items as you can.
• Convince the crew that [crewmember] is out to get them.
• Stop the station from fulfilling their mission
• idk man there's a lot of shit you could do, get creative

They aren't so rigid like our current objectives. I feel there's a lot more room for gimmick or rp or whatever you want.
I also agree with "softer objectives" (do you feel you have fulfilled your duty, etc etc)