Quality of life changes to Security

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Lumbermancer
 
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Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lumbermancer » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:04 am #23723

Everyone seems to try to force people into Sec, to counter NoSec, so how about instead we talk how can we make Sec job easier, safer, and more fun? Here are my ideas:

Portable Flashers - I think currently they are weaksauce, bulbs burn out too fast, faster than they used to pre first nerf (I think). What if NT put on Flashers tiny cameras and computer chips, so they would flash only when person triggering them was not wearing glasses? This would stop them from burning out in first 5 minutes, when everyone runs around, and before real prisoners even arrive. Replacing bulbs could be easier too, just click with flash on flasher, no need for wirecutters. This would prevent greyshirts from stealing HoP line flash as well.

Pepper Spray - right now it's just a handicapped flash, I don't think that's fun. It should be what it is in real life, a crowd control weapon. Remove the stun. Increase the blinding effect, make it reduce visible area to 1 square around you (like when you have damaged eyes), plus the usual white fog. Make it blind people wearing glasses too (maybe for a shorter time), only bio hoods, gas masks, and goggles should be immune (because they fit tightly). When you want person to back the fuck off, flashing or tasing doesn't work, it will keep them in place until they stand up and resume their griffing. Strong blind will make them run away, at least temporarily.

Tear Gas - Similar thing. Flashbangs are good for area of effect stun, when you need to arrest or kill someone. But when you want to deny or contain room it ain't workin, it only aggravates griffons even further, because only lasting effect is deafness. Make Tear Gas grenades more common (1 per locker + vending machine). Make grenades fit into security belt. Increase longevity of gas cloud (maybe size too) and make it translucent. The stun effect could be kept here.

Brig Cell Beds - How many times you left prisoner bucklecuffed because you had no time to go through the whole enter, stun, uncuff, pick cuffs, leave procedure? How many times you got robusted because bluespace lag kicked in just as you uncuffed someone? How many times people exploited your politeness of not flashing their shit, and not following your instructions tried to escape their cell?
Introducing the new Warden Mate 3000 Bed - with a single press of the button on control console, it uncuffs the prisoner remotely, scoops handcuffs through mini-chute and spits them out right under you feet. Safe, fast and efficient - it can be mounted in Long-Term Prison cells too if you so desire!

Cells themselves - add a buzzer alarm (or vox announcement through brig intercom) when incarceration period is expiring (maybe 30 seconds before end), add a text message too for wearers of the sec hud.

Barriers - Barriers are cool, barriers are tactical, they help you control the traffic, and seal breaches. But when some tator fuck emags the main doors, or assistant bolts them open - you are on the mercy of engineering department. Mercy that will never arrive. Instead of being the blocky things you push around, with a swipe of your id barriers could instead raise and drop to the ground allowing you to pass over them.

Chemical Implants - No one ever uses them. Ever. Instead of relying on Chemistry to make you stuff, they could come preloaded with various chemicals. Some dermakelo mix, some chloral, for all occasions. I don't remember how delivery UI looks, but it's probably something shitty like channels and frequencies. Why not display implanted person's name instead, and their health too? HoS screams for help? Fill that fucker with rejuvenating chemicals!

Tracking implants - ditto. I think I've used them maybe once, and If I recall the console shows you X,Y coordinates only. It should show the name of the area and hp.

Criminal records - Make HoS and Detective be able to edit records remotely through PDA, that is adding and removing wanted status and such. But not Warden, Warden doesn't need it, he is to stay in brig.

Below you can discuss how full of shit I am.
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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby kosmos » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:25 am #23724

Buffing flashes and peppersprays + tear gas addition would be nice but very hard to balance, cos you're not only buffing security personnel, but everyone who manages to steal and use those items.

I've said this before, I'll be lazy and just copypaste this here:

The biggest problem I see with Security is that there's little to no communication. Warden needs to constantly ask "Why was this guy set to arrest?", no Officer ever asks for orders, HoS rarely gives out orders. When I'm an Officer I have no idea whether to patrol around or to guard my post. If the answer's "patrol", what are the posts even for? I've NEVER seen anyone stationed in their security post. Also Warden has very little to do (Security Cameras computer functioning like the AI Eye for him could solve things? Or at least making the camera computer more convenient, now it's just plain horrible to scroll through the list, trying to find "Bar" and then you realize it's "Maltese Falcon", could it be possible to use movement keys to jump from camera to camera?), Detective is almost useless if he's not going full-Officer-mode (more access for him so he can snoop around?) and I've yet to see a single useful Lawyer (I've no idea how to improve the job, feels too rp-heavy to ever fit the playstyle of the server, just remove he please).

* When Security HUD is used to set someone to "arrest", it could ask for "crime committed?" which would automatically be added to Security Records, this would make communication easier.
* Upgraded AI-Eye-Like Security Cameras computer or at least a rehaul of the Security Cameras computer for the Warden would encourage teamwork and give Warden something useful to do than to babysit the armory.
* Secborgs starting with access to sec radio channel would encourage communication.

The funny thing with security is that with proper coordination, maybe some tracking implants and a teleporter hub built in Security Office, security could be immensely overpowered. I did this once as a warden on low-pop and just spawned with a load of guns to any of the Officers yelling help. Security's already got the tools, nobody just ever uses them.

Also I'd still like to raise up the suggestion about making them look less like fucking nazis. Really, who wants to be the guy in the aggressive red shirt, with a boss that looks like literally Hitler? We have the blue uniforms in game already (or do we still? i haven't seen them in a long while) as a orderable crate which no one ever orders, why not use those? Make them look more like friendly police officers people want to play as, maybe more covert, undercover stuff as well (gun holster? being disguised as a scientist and shit maybe?). Main point being here, security guys already just LOOK like they're the bad guys that nobody wants to play.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Reimoo » Mon Aug 11, 2014 9:00 am #23726

I think VG has one of these things where when the prison cell timer expires, a chute opens in the cell to allow the prisoner to leave without having to bother someone to let him out.

That would be neat.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Mon Aug 11, 2014 10:06 am #23729

Lumbermancer wrote:Portable Flashers - I think currently they are weaksauce, bulbs burn out too fast, faster than they used to pre first nerf (I think). What if NT put on Flashers tiny cameras and computer chips, so they would flash only when person triggering them was not wearing glasses? This would stop them from burning out in first 5 minutes, when everyone runs around, and before real prisoners even arrive. Replacing bulbs could be easier too, just click with flash on flasher, no need for wirecutters. This would prevent greyshirts from stealing HoP line flash as well.

No, keep in mind that they have a trigger radius of 1, but they flash in the radius of 2, so you can trigger it on purpose if you need to flash somebody nearby.

These things are just annoying as hell, don't place them unless it's rev or some massive greytide. If you don't care about released prisoners who will be flashed by them (yeah, they can walk, but some faggot with sunglasses will run past and flash them anyway), you should remember that there are a bunch of borgs, lawyers and heads that can visit the brig as well. Just don't use them unless really necessary, or put them in areas that are not accessible for others anyway, like armory and permabrig.
Lumbermancer wrote:Pepper Spray - right now it's just a handicapped flash, I don't think that's fun. It should be what it is in real life, a crowd control weapon. Remove the stun. Increase the blinding effect, make it reduce visible area to 1 square around you (like when you have damaged eyes), plus the usual white fog. Make it blind people wearing glasses too (maybe for a shorter time), only bio hoods, gas masks, and goggles should be immune (because they fit tightly). When you want person to back the fuck off, flashing or tasing doesn't work, it will keep them in place until they stand up and resume their griffing. Strong blind will make them run away, at least temporarily.

Dude, perpperspray is fucking great. It's not a flash, you don't have to aim at the target to hit and it has a range of 3 tiles. I agree about glasses, they shouldn't really protect, unless they are science glasses.

Actually now that I think about it, officers will be vulnerable to it themselves if sunglasses don't offer protection.
Lumbermancer wrote:Tear Gas - Similar thing. Flashbangs are good for area of effect stun, when you need to arrest or kill someone. But when you want to deny or contain room it ain't workin, it only aggravates griffons even further, because only lasting effect is deafness. Make Tear Gas grenades more common (1 per locker + vending machine). Make grenades fit into security belt. Increase longevity of gas cloud (maybe size too) and make it translucent. The stun effect could be kept here.

Never got to use them, because usually they are locked in the armory.
Lumbermancer wrote:Brig Cell Beds - How many times you left prisoner bucklecuffed because you had no time to go through the whole enter, stun, uncuff, pick cuffs, leave procedure? How many times you got robusted because bluespace lag kicked in just as you uncuffed someone? How many times people exploited your politeness of not flashing their shit, and not following your instructions tried to escape their cell?
Introducing the new Warden Mate 3000 Bed - with a single press of the button on control console, it uncuffs the prisoner remotely, scoops handcuffs through mini-chute and spits them out right under you feet. Safe, fast and efficient - it can be mounted in Long-Term Prison cells too if you so desire!

Seems kind of silly, to be honest. If you feel like you get robusted when being polite, just flash them before uncuffing. And after.
Lumbermancer wrote:Cells themselves - add a buzzer alarm (or vox announcement through brig intercom) when incarceration period is expiring (maybe 30 seconds before end), add a text message too for wearers of the sec hud.

Well, we now have one for beepsky, might as well have one for this.
Lumbermancer wrote:Barriers - Barriers are cool, barriers are tactical, they help you control the traffic, and seal breaches. But when some tator fuck emags the main doors, or assistant bolts them open - you are on the mercy of engineering department. Mercy that will never arrive. Instead of being the blocky things you push around, with a swipe of your id barriers could instead raise and drop to the ground allowing you to pass over them.

Well, that may not be a bad idea, certainly.
Lumbermancer wrote:Chemical Implants - No one ever uses them. Ever. Instead of relying on Chemistry to make you stuff, they could come preloaded with various chemicals. Some dermakelo mix, some chloral, for all occasions. I don't remember how delivery UI looks, but it's probably something shitty like channels and frequencies. Why not display implanted person's name instead, and their health too? HoS screams for help? Fill that fucker with rejuvenating chemicals!

I try hard every time to get chem to do shit. Unless it's Reed it almost never happens. You should just go ahead and rob medbay's chemistry locker, honestly. Pretty sure UI just shows implant #N and lets you inject whatever amount of chemicals, so it's manageable.
Lumbermancer wrote:Tracking implants - ditto. I think I've used them maybe once, and If I recall the console shows you X,Y coordinates only. It should show the name of the area and hp.

Yeah, should probably be like crew monitoring.
Lumbermancer wrote:Criminal records - Make HoS and Detective be able to edit records remotely through PDA, that is adding and removing wanted status and such. But not Warden, Warden doesn't need it, he is to stay in brig.

You can view them from PDA as any officer. PDA code is shit though. I would rather see HUDs allowing officers to add minor and major crimes as well as notes.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:27 am #23735

kosmos wrote:If the answer's "patrol", what are the posts even for?

Well mostly for having a secure area where you can fill security records, recharge your weapons (which is a big deal, since brig is far away) and hide from angry mob. There used to be security lockers as well, but they got stolen all the time, so not any more.
kosmos wrote:I've NEVER seen anyone stationed in their security post.

No, people do that, but there's honestly very little point, unless it's in medbay. Mostly you should just wander around your department and nearby hallways and be the first to respond when something's happening nearby.
kosmos wrote:Also Warden has very little to do (Security Cameras computer functioning like the AI Eye for him could solve things? Or at least making the camera computer more convenient, now it's just plain horrible to scroll through the list, trying to find "Bar" and then you realize it's "Maltese Falcon", could it be possible to use movement keys to jump from camera to camera?), Detective is almost useless if he's not going full-Officer-mode (more access for him so he can snoop around?) and I've yet to see a single useful Lawyer (I've no idea how to improve the job, feels too rp-heavy to ever fit the playstyle of the server, just remove he please).

It sounds like you don't have much experience with security, to be honest. Warden is incredibly busy in high-pop rounds, warden must keep records up to date, since officers rarely have time, release prisoners, make sure their shit is not lost (this can be extremely hard), all the while supporting officers with cameras (it's clunky, but manageable), implants and equipment from armory. Detective can vary, when you have nothing to do just patrol the maintenance, check any blood trail, any items, it can be really quite a lot as well. Lawyers can be really helpful for warden if both parties are cool, or they can be very obnoxious, but frankly you CAN bring shitcurity to justice, it's pretty hard to do, but it's possible, I've done that myself.
kosmos wrote:* When Security HUD is used to set someone to "arrest", it could ask for "crime committed?" which would automatically be added to Security Records, this would make communication easier.

With a separate button, yes, this needs to be done.
kosmos wrote:* Upgraded AI-Eye-Like Security Cameras computer or at least a rehaul of the Security Cameras computer for the Warden would encourage teamwork and give Warden something useful to do than to babysit the armory.

AI-eye is kind of laggy or so I heard, so I dunno. Plus you're not an AI who sees all the cameras at once, so it wouldn't make much sense.
kosmos wrote:* Secborgs starting with access to sec radio channel would encourage communication.

Secborgs are not even obliged to follow space law, and frankly they shouldn't. AI should take care of that with NTSL anyway.
kosmos wrote:The biggest problem I see with Security is that there's little to no communication. Warden needs to constantly ask "Why was this guy set to arrest?", no Officer ever asks for orders, HoS rarely gives out orders. When I'm an Officer I have no idea whether to patrol around or to guard my post.

This only can be cured by yourself. No amounts of whining about it on forums will fix it. Just when you play an officer ask for orders, report everything important, say when you're going to check out a scene when somebody calls for help. As HoS give orders, kick out faggots who never answer the radio. I guarantee that sooner or later you will find that people respond to that.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Ikarrus » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:06 pm #23745

I like the idea of sending messages through sechuds more often. Does'nt hurt to spread information a little easier, especially for security.

And I tried relaxing the burnout chance of flashers before, but the PR was denied, so that's that.
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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby ShizCalev » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:11 pm #23755

Lumbermancer wrote:Portable Flashers
Could change it to have them filter for people with security access and not trigger on them, no?

Lumbermancer wrote:Pepper Spray
It's hilarious as hell to see someone get peppersprayed, simply because it's never ever used. This change sounds.. okaaaayyyy.

Lumbermancer wrote:Tear Gas
Don't agree with giving all security officers tear gas. They should be reserved for riot scenarios. Officers are already given an AoE grenade (flashbangs). If you need more than that, go arm up at the armory.

Lumbermancer wrote:Brig Cell Beds
Cool, but not really needed. Brig procedure in spacelaw states that you should flash someone before uncuffing them. If you get dunked because you didn't follow space law, then it's on you.

Lumbermancer wrote:Cell timer message
Fuck yes. This would settle so many problems.

Lumbermancer wrote:Barriers
Awesome. Collapsible barricades. Do it.

Lumbermancer wrote:Chemical Implants - No one ever uses them. Ever.
I use them quite frequently when someone commits a fuckton of crimes to the point where we can throw them in perma, or if they're a suspected/captured tator. You can fill the implants with lethal injections, which is what I suspect that overall intent of them is.

Lumbermancer wrote:Tracking implants
I use them quite frequently. Though I do agree it could be a bit better to say the area they're in, as opposed to just X,Y.

Lumbermancer wrote:Criminal records
Do it. Should do the same for medical records as well for the CMO and doctors.
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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Arete » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:25 pm #23812

It'd be neat if officers got magnetic gloves that kept them from being disarmed. There are already so many other ways to get the jump on an officer that they really shouldn't be expected to keep their guns holstered until it's time to start shooting.

It'd also be nifty if sec officers could choose which department they wanted to be assigned to at the start of the round, but I'm not sure how to handle this in a way that's more convenient than just going to the HoP and asking.

In general, I think playing sec would be more enjoyable if both sec and antags got buffed. As things stand, it feels like sec spends more effort going after greytide than they do on taking down antags.
Last edited by Arete on Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Scott » Mon Aug 11, 2014 11:29 pm #23813

That's a problem with shitty players, not security itself. Give sec free rein to do whatever they want to greytiders so they don't have to worry about getting banned.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby kosmos » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:50 am #23851

Scott wrote:That's a problem with shitty players, not security itself. Give sec free rein to do whatever they want to greytiders so they don't have to worry about getting banned.

No. This would lead to shitcurity, which in turn would lead to graytide against it.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
kosmos wrote:The biggest problem I see with Security is that there's little to no communication. Warden needs to constantly ask "Why was this guy set to arrest?", no Officer ever asks for orders, HoS rarely gives out orders. When I'm an Officer I have no idea whether to patrol around or to guard my post.

This only can be cured by yourself. No amounts of whining about it on forums will fix it. Just when you play an officer ask for orders, report everything important, say when you're going to check out a scene when somebody calls for help. As HoS give orders, kick out faggots who never answer the radio. I guarantee that sooner or later you will find that people respond to that.

Your "cure" for this could be applied to every problem on the station and it alone won't work. "Too many round-start assistants and too few security officers? This can only be cured by yourself, be the only security officer on the station and stop whining." Your advice is excellent otherwise, and believe me, I've done those exact things for the last 2 years now and only once or twice have gotten actual orders when asking for orders through the sec channel.

Thinking about this gave me a new idea: a SecPager/PatrolBuddy
A small pager for the Security Officers that can be used to hand out orders and Officers themselves can report info about their current status (patrolling, stationed, on break, arriving to the scene of crime etc.) whichc can be seen on a Security Officer Management Console, so HoS and Warden could manage the officers quickly and neatly, and see if someone's available for a job or not or if they've been too quiet for too long.

Oh and another fix that was suggested in some other thread: Security Officer job limit correlating with the station total population.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:34 am #23855

kosmos wrote:Your "cure" for this could be applied to every problem on the station and it alone won't work.

That's not true, why would you say that.
kosmos wrote:"Too many round-start assistants and too few security officers? This can only be cured by yourself, be the only security officer on the station and stop whining."

Exactly.
kosmos wrote:Thinking about this gave me a new idea: a SecPager/PatrolBuddy
A small pager for the Security Officers that can be used to hand out orders and Officers themselves can report info about their current status (patrolling, stationed, on break, arriving to the scene of crime etc.) whichc can be seen on a Security Officer Management Console, so HoS and Warden could manage the officers quickly and neatly, and see if someone's available for a job or not or if they've been too quiet for too long.

Oh and another fix that was suggested in some other thread: Security Officer job limit correlating with the station total population.

Sure? Using PDA to manage it would be better though.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Scott » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:24 pm #23887

kosmos wrote:
Scott wrote:That's a problem with shitty players, not security itself. Give sec free rein to do whatever they want to greytiders so they don't have to worry about getting banned.

No. This would lead to shitcurity, which in turn would lead to graytide against it.


Better shit and produce results than friendly and useless. Time spent chasing after people who are not antag and are playing to make everyone else's round worse is wasted time. It's behavior that should be curbed some way or another. Flooding admins with ahelps about assistants breaking the robotics windows or something is not preferable to kicking the baddies out of an external airlock. upload protectstation

Also people are banned for greytide, so let them get banned. I've seen more than once bans being dished out to people playing greytide that disrupted the security force when there were Nuke Ops fucking shit up.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby lumipharon » Wed Aug 13, 2014 12:42 pm #23971

Chem implants are strong as shit, as a chemist I usually ask the HoS/warden to let me setup their implants for them (and keep one for myself),since a dose of DD/syn/whatever on demand (you can activate a chem implant in your head at any time with deathgasp) is super useful. Sadly people are indeed retarded, and rarely use them. Don't think it needs a change though, just means you need competent players.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:45 pm #23987

I use Chemical Implants as a Changeling Tracker. If I suspect someone of being a Ling, I'll stick a Chem (And Tracking Implant if possible) in them. That then pops up a uniquely colour coded icon above their heads. So if they change disguise I'll know who they really are.

Chem Implants are fine as they stand, the reason they are hard to use is because your relying on a competent (and non-antag) chemist to get the correct chemicals for you.

*EDIT*

Suppose I'll respond to the OP since I play Sec all the time.

Portable Flashers - I think currently they are weaksauce, bulbs burn out too fast, faster than they used to pre first nerf (I think). What if NT put on Flashers tiny cameras and computer chips, so they would flash only when person triggering them was not wearing glasses? This would stop them from burning out in first 5 minutes, when everyone runs around, and before real prisoners even arrive. Replacing bulbs could be easier too, just click with flash on flasher, no need for wirecutters. This would prevent greyshirts from stealing HoP line flash as well.


While I would like to see Portable Flashers not die out as quickly as they do, I think they are in a good place balance wise. They are meant as a crowd control weapon, usually in Rev and Cult rounds, and they preform that role perfectly. Also somewhat useful in the Armoury but most people breaking in there are wearing protective equipment.

Pepper Spray - right now it's just a handicapped flash, I don't think that's fun. It should be what it is in real life, a crowd control weapon. Remove the stun. Increase the blinding effect, make it reduce visible area to 1 square around you (like when you have damaged eyes), plus the usual white fog. Make it blind people wearing glasses too (maybe for a shorter time), only bio hoods, gas masks, and goggles should be immune (because they fit tightly). When you want person to back the fuck off, flashing or tasing doesn't work, it will keep them in place until they stand up and resume their griffing. Strong blind will make them run away, at least temporarily.


I can see this being a interesting alternative. Current Pepper Spray is almost useless against, at least making Sun Glasses not immune to it would be a great buff, cause honestly you try not being affected by pepper spray with a pair of flimsy sun glasses on.

However removing the stun would make it even more useless imo, you can't simulate pain in game in a way that does not take control away from the player.

Tear Gas - Similar thing. Flashbangs are good for area of effect stun, when you need to arrest or kill someone. But when you want to deny or contain room it ain't workin, it only aggravates griffons even further, because only lasting effect is deafness. Make Tear Gas grenades more common (1 per locker + vending machine). Make grenades fit into security belt. Increase longevity of gas cloud (maybe size too) and make it translucent. The stun effect could be kept here.


Note: Tear Gas is basically a Pepper Spray but in a grenade. Any balance to the Pepper Spray would carry over to the Tear Gas grenades.

I do think at least one grenade should be in each locker and/or in the Sec Equipment Room.

Brig Cell Beds - How many times you left prisoner bucklecuffed because you had no time to go through the whole enter, stun, uncuff, pick cuffs, leave procedure? How many times you got robusted because bluespace lag kicked in just as you uncuffed someone? How many times people exploited your politeness of not flashing their shit, and not following your instructions tried to escape their cell?
Introducing the new Warden Mate 3000 Bed - with a single press of the button on control console, it uncuffs the prisoner remotely, scoops handcuffs through mini-chute and spits them out right under you feet. Safe, fast and efficient - it can be mounted in Long-Term Prison cells too if you so desire!


While nice, it removes one point of vulnerability of allowing people to attempt to escape. A good brigging Officer has no trouble with uncuffing a prisoner.

Cells themselves - add a buzzer alarm (or vox announcement through brig intercom) when incarceration period is expiring (maybe 30 seconds before end), add a text message too for wearers of the sec hud.


Very good idea.

Barriers - Barriers are cool, barriers are tactical, they help you control the traffic, and seal breaches. But when some tator fuck emags the main doors, or assistant bolts them open - you are on the mercy of engineering department. Mercy that will never arrive. Instead of being the blocky things you push around, with a swipe of your id barriers could instead raise and drop to the ground allowing you to pass over them.


A extremely good idea, would make Barriers more versatile.

Chemical Implants - No one ever uses them. Ever. Instead of relying on Chemistry to make you stuff, they could come preloaded with various chemicals. Some dermakelo mix, some chloral, for all occasions. I don't remember how delivery UI looks, but it's probably something shitty like channels and frequencies. Why not display implanted person's name instead, and their health too? HoS screams for help? Fill that fucker with rejuvenating chemicals!


Already given my thoughts. While I do like giving Sec some chemicals people will inevitably shout out about pampering Security.

Tracking implants - ditto. I think I've used them maybe once, and If I recall the console shows you X,Y coordinates only. It should show the name of the area and hp.


I thought the computer console gave more detailed info on their location? If not it does deserve some kind of buff in that regard.

Criminal records - Make HoS and Detective be able to edit records remotely through PDA, that is adding and removing wanted status and such. But not Warden, Warden doesn't need it, he is to stay in brig.


I would prefer anyone in Sec can do it remotely.
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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby MrStonedOne » Wed Aug 13, 2014 3:23 pm #23990

kosmos wrote:
Oh and another fix that was suggested in some other thread: Security Officer job limit correlating with the station total population.


I was under the impression this already happens.
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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:58 pm #23997


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cedarbridge
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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby cedarbridge » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:05 pm #24038

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
kosmos wrote:* Secborgs starting with access to sec radio channel would encourage communication.

Secborgs are not even obliged to follow space law, and frankly they shouldn't. AI should take care of that with NTSL anyway.

What he's referencing here is the case where the usual borg players will make a beeline for the department corresponding to their module after selection to beg a headset and then hope the newbie roboticist can be peeled away from their ripley long enough to figure out how to install it. This essentially boils down to the chronic issue of new players being drawn to robotics more than any real sec issue. There's almost always spare headsets. Its just sometimes a hassle getting them all the way to the lab without having to tase 20 shitlers stealing it before you arrive.

As far as borgs and speslaw go, it is correct that borgs are not pre-instructed to enforce the law but policy also states that the borg/AI may choose a degree to which they choose to enforce it (within the bounds of whatever their lawset is at the time) so long as they stick to that determination until lawset conditions change. Not much different from Joe Secborg arresting a breaker-in at the EVA maint door and the AI announcing they're letting somebody into the captain's office, as long as the application of those play-styles remain consistent throughout the round.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:41 pm #24042

If breaker-in orders secborg to release him, secborg should obey. "I wanna follow spesslaw" doesn't remove law 2 of Asimov.

I dunno, I don't see much of that beelining. Yes, borgs are very much dependant on humans, but that's a good thing. They could start with high-cap cell every round, but they don't. Roboticist can refuse to upgrade borgs for their own reasons as well. Let's not remove that part.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Arete » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:10 pm #24047

If the secborg has been ordered to enforce space law, then silicon policy dictates that he can use his own discretion to determine which order to follow as long as nothing relevant to Law 1 comes up. In any case, the silicon policy page on the wiki says that borgs can choose whether to follow space law, presumably with Law 2 priority.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:29 pm #24048

Arete wrote:presumably with Law 2 priority.

Why?

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby MisterPerson » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:50 pm #24050

Arete wrote:If the secborg has been ordered to enforce space law, then silicon policy dictates that he can use his own discretion to determine which order to follow as long as nothing relevant to Law 1 comes up. In any case, the silicon policy page on the wiki says that borgs can choose whether to follow space law, presumably with Law 2 priority.


Take that to policy discussion, that's not a question to be resolved here.
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PostThis post was deleted by MisterPerson on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:18 am.
Reason: When I said "Take it to policy changes", that didn't mean "keep talking about it here"

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby kosmos » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:35 am #24083

cedarbridge wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
kosmos wrote:* Secborgs starting with access to sec radio channel would encourage communication.

Secborgs are not even obliged to follow space law, and frankly they shouldn't. AI should take care of that with NTSL anyway.

This essentially boils down to the chronic issue of new players being drawn to robotics more than any real sec issue. There's almost always spare headsets. Its just sometimes a hassle getting them all the way to the lab without having to tase 20 shitlers stealing it before you arrive.

I agree, it's a nice touch to install encryption keys. But I was more going for that in my experience secborgs don't usually get a security encryption key. Forcing them have one in the beginning would save everyone's time, thrust the responsibility of security more from the AI to the HoS because the AI doesn't have to order the secborg around, and also make sure that the borg is part of the security team and not just the AI's personal bodyguard.

Whether the secborg is actually destined to be completely separate from the security team (which doesn't feel right to me since they're designed perfectly for catching criminals) or not, would apparently be a discussion for another thread.

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Re: Quality of life changes to Security

Postby cedarbridge » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:15 am #24946

[edit after removal]
Yeah, it always feels a bit off for secborgs to operate apart from the sec team in general. Moreso than say an Engieborg that only really wants the key to listen in on poly or catch some comment about damage or repairs already in progress. A mediborg really has little to gain from getting their key too as medbay staff are useless cunts generally don't communicate much about actual medbay matters so there's not much useful information there. Janiborgs...don't really need to know anything they can't already probably see. I'd wager most service department players don't even know they have a channel.


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