Addressing the stun meta

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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:02 am #317522

no direction is better than this direction tbh famalam
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Remie Richards » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:03 am #317535

TheColdTurtle wrote:The only way to make this shitty game and server good is to fire all the coders and retarded admins and have the code be controlled by one person like CM does. But dumbass ledditors like to say "HEH HE MENTIONED CM THAT MEANS HIS ARGUMENT IS WRONG BECAUSE I SAW A POST ON REDDIT SAYIMG THAT IT IS BAD HEH"

t. Someone who has not read this shitty thread at all and just posted because


CM's code isn't controlled by one person??
Wtf are you talking about.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby MisterPerson » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:19 am #317540

The best idea I came up with on this front is real simple. I don't even know if it's a good idea or not but hey!

You don't drop items just from being knocked down/stunned. You still can't move, but you can act normally otherwise. This includes pulling out items from your backpack, attacking, shooting guns, etc.

Obviously this has implications for security (greyshirts can beat you while you handcuff them, maybe make getting attacked in melee stop the handcuffing action?).
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Professor Hangar » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:17 am #317544

That's gonna kinda make arresting hard, given every greytider is going to be spamming Disarm like mad.

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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby MisterPerson » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:27 am #317545

Professor Hangar wrote:That's gonna kinda make arresting hard, given every greytider is going to be spamming Disarm like mad.


Shout STOP RESISTING as you harmbaton them to death.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby lumipharon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:46 pm #317741

Not dropping items (or atleast a lower chance or something) when you get stunned, would actually be a fairly big deal.
Getting disarmed/stunned and then murdered/stunned more with your own weapon happens A LOT.

Still being able to fight/operate items normally while stunned would probably be too much though.
It would also hilariously mean that if you click fast enough/have better ping, you could cuff the officer trying to arrest you before they can do the same to you.

On a marginally related note, I am still waiting for trying to disarming someone armed with an e-sword to have a high chance to fail/cut your own hand off.

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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby calzilla1 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:32 am #318127

TheColdTurtle wrote:This post was made by oranges who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

can someone please tell me if it is worth it to open this post? Because I am thinking that it contributes nothing due to the person who made it.......

Nope
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Anonmare » Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:58 am #318157

I thought you couldn't attack or disamr someone if you were on the ground? Like if you had both your legs cut off. You can move but you can't harm or disarm
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:17 pm #318399

Anonmare wrote:I thought you couldn't attack or disamr someone if you were on the ground? Like if you had both your legs cut off. You can move but you can't harm or disarm

No, you can still attack from the ground, try resting and disarming somebody. You can't hold things when on the ground, however, meaning you can't really attack with weapons from the ground (exceptions exist, such as things you physically can't drop like chainsaw arms).
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:22 am #323634

Hey look another stun thread that led to nothing.

What a surprise.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Remie Richards » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:18 pm #323651

They will always lead to nothing.
There is no solution to this.
All proposed solutions nobody want's to work on.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:04 pm #323668

Remie Richards wrote:They will always lead to nothing.
There is no solution to this.
All proposed solutions nobody want's to work on.



Except the 2 shot taser was a perfectly fine change that could have been balanced just fine.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Remie Richards » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:04 pm #323669

That's just like, your opinion, man
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby lzimann » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:17 pm #323681

The 2 taser shot was really bad and pretty much plain stupid honestly.

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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:18 pm #323807

lzimann wrote:The 2 taser shot was really bad and pretty much plain stupid honestly.


Thats like zero constructive.

You think a weapon that stuns you after 2 shots is fundamentally unusable?
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby ShadowDimentio » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:36 pm #323809

Yes when the entire game for the past forever has been designed off the taser being really good.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby D&B » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:39 pm #323810

Maybe if we had a rapid fire burst weapon that stunned when shots are landed like disablers would be fun to test out, since the extra shots per trigger press would make it seem like the chance to hit is higher.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby ShadowDimentio » Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:40 pm #323811

That's just dual wielding disablers
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-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
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"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
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"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
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"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
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"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
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">7 8 6
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:00 pm #323814

ShadowDimentio wrote:Yes when the entire game for the past forever has been designed off the taser being really good.


And you are too scared to just take that first step and balance the rest after how it plays out?
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby ShadowDimentio » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:04 pm #323816

Why yes I'm very afraid of shattering the balance of the game because like 5 idiots on the forum can't deal with the tazer as it is, especially when you JUST ADMITTED you have NO IDEA how it would pan out
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"Clowns are different you can't trust those shifty fucks you never know what they're doing or if they're willing to eat a dayban for some cheap yuks."
-Not-Dorsidarf

"The amount of people is the amount of times the sound is played... on top of itself. And with sybil populations on the shuttle..."
-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
-Stickymayhem

"Drank a cocktail of orange Gatorade and mint mouthwash on accident. Pretty sure I'm going to die, I am on the verge of vomit. It was nice knowing you guys"
-PKPenguin321

"You're too late, you will have to fetch them from the top of my tower, built by zombies, slaves, zombie slaves and garitho's will to live!"
-Armhulen

"This is like being cooked alive in a microwave oven which utilises the autistic end of the light spectrum to cook you."
-DarkFNC

"Penguins are the second race to realise 2D>3D"
-Anonmare

"Paul Blart mall cops if they all had ambitions of joining the Waffen-SS"
-Anonmare

"These logs could kill a dragon much less a man"
-Armhulenn

">7 8 6
WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? POETIC ANARCHY!"
-Wyzack

"We didn't kick one goofball out only to have another one come in like a fucking revolving door"
-Kraseo

"There's a difference between fucking faggots and being a fucking faggot."
-Anonmare

"You guys splitting the 20 bucks cost to hire your ex again?"
-lntigracy

"Wew. Congrats. It's been actual years since anyone tried to make fun of me for being divorced. You caught me, I'm tilted. Here is your trophy."
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">Paying over a $1000 for a lump of silicon and plastic
Lol"
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:14 pm #323819

ShadowDimentio wrote:Why yes I'm very afraid of shattering the balance of the game because like 5 idiots on the forum can't deal with the tazer as it is, especially when you JUST ADMITTED you have NO IDEA how it would pan out


I did not say I had no Idea how it would play out. I have a pretty good idea of how it will. It will reduce the potency of the stun meta,but only slightly. Lethals will be somewhat more competitive in a firefight. Security might need some slight buff in another area, for example in their laser. Effectiveness change on fleeing targets will be minimal because against those disablers are usually preferred anyway.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby ChangelingRain » Fri Aug 04, 2017 11:23 pm #323822

Here's a simple thing; make getting stunned by stamina damage remove most or all of it, because see previous reasons why in the thread.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:02 am #323825

ChangelingRain wrote:Here's a simple thing; make getting stunned by stamina damage remove most or all of it, because see previous reasons why in the thread.


Yes this is a very good idea.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Cobby » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:42 am #324095

When the freeze is over remind me to do ^

I plan on removing 3/4ths of the stam damage you have after you've been knocked down.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:37 am #324161

ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:When the freeze is over remind me to do ^

I plan on removing 3/4ths of the stam damage you have after you've been knocked down.


Personally I would go with half, but just see what you think is best.

The way stamina stuns would also need to be reworked though, currently you just stay stunned until you heal the stamina damage. But if half the damage is reduced after you get up things like getting 101 stamina damage would be weird.

I think Stamina should apply a fixed stun (7 seconds or so) after you reach 100 stamina (or combined) damage.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Cobby » Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:16 pm #324246

CPTANT wrote:
ExcessiveCobblestone wrote:When the freeze is over remind me to do ^

I plan on removing 3/4ths of the stam damage you have after you've been knocked down.


Personally I would go with half, but just see what you think is best.

The way stamina stuns would also need to be reworked though, currently you just stay stunned until you heal the stamina damage. But if half the damage is reduced after you get up things like getting 101 stamina damage would be weird.

I think Stamina should apply a fixed stun (7 seconds or so) after you reach 100 stamina (or combined) damage.


The stun is just a 10(100 ticks?) stun so it doesn't base the stun length off stamina damage. It just looks that way because stamina passively heals and the knockdown can be reapplied if you keep passing the threshold.

The point at which you fall over also is based on your health as well so lower health = less stamina damage needed to fall over.

What I didn't find out last night [well tbh I didn't check] was if stamina damage was clamped to 100 or if you could go over.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby AnonymousNow » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:00 pm #324272

There's been various attempts over the years to fix the stun meta, and nothing has succeeded. Disablers put a sizeable dent in it, but then in the end only really contributed to more stuns.

The only way I can think of to actually achieve the aim of killing the stun meta is to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Currently the only one I have is this - flat-out remove all stuns and replace them with more disabler-like functions. Or shorten stuns. Or change stuns to something like the new flash (before the revert).

I don't know, really. At this point, I don't think stuns can be fixed, at not without some radical change.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:22 pm #324276

AnonymousNow wrote:There's been various attempts over the years to fix the stun meta, and nothing has succeeded. Disablers put a sizeable dent in it, but then in the end only really contributed to more stuns.

The only way I can think of to actually achieve the aim of killing the stun meta is to throw ideas at the wall and see what sticks. Currently the only one I have is this - flat-out remove all stuns and replace them with more disabler-like functions. Or shorten stuns. Or change stuns to something like the new flash (before the revert).

I don't know, really. At this point, I don't think stuns can be fixed, at not without some radical change.



The solution is a not shit stamina system.

What objection to stamina based stuns is there when the slowdown from stamina damage is reduced and stamina is halved after the stun from reaching 100?
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:22 pm #324513



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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:38 pm #324526



Well that is definitely a huge step in the wrong direction.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Gun Hog » Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:40 pm #324528

May the freeze never end such that it may protect us from PRs like that. The less viable you make stuns, the more desired you make the ULTIMATE stun: Death.

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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby CPTANT » Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:10 pm #324532

Gun Hog wrote:May the freeze never end such that it may protect us from PRs like that. The less viable you make stuns, the more desired you make the ULTIMATE stun: Death.


Not really since stuns equal death in most situations now and actually critting someone is harder than applying 1 taser shot.
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Re: Addressing the stun meta

Postby Cobby » Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:39 am #324748

Gun Hog wrote:May the freeze never end such that it may protect us from PRs like that. The less viable you make stuns, the more desired you make the ULTIMATE stun: Death.


Forever stun is a fate worse than death tho
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