Move the spare ID inside captain's locker

[Slignerd]

Already made a thread for this I'm sure, but it's old news and full of nonsensical bloat, so I decided to start fresh with the idea.

There should honestly be more effort involved in getting round-breaking loot than "whoever hacks open three airlocks first gets the grand price". There is no way security can feasibly secure an item located in a room they have no access to, especially during lowpop, and you seriously can't expect a lone detective to stand outside captain's office for the entire round. This one's from security perspective, because all access being stolen 5 minutes into the shift typically screws with security the most.

So, if the ID were spawned inside a locker, it wouldn't just be out there for anyone to grab it, but it wouldn't be unobtainable either - all that would really mean is that any aspiring troublemaker just needs to drag the locker somewhere and grab a heavy weapon to break it open, such as a fireaxe - which also gives others some room to intervene.

A change like that would ensure that all-access requires some effort to get, while still being obtainable when necessary, and full of potential to cause a security breach in case of neglect.

[Gun Hog]

The tradeoff to this being that Greyscum that normally steal only the ID will now steal the whole locker, including the Captain's armor, his unique sword, and his energy gun. The ID should be a bit of a challenge to steal, but FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR, DO NOT FORCE THE GREYSCUM TO STEAL ARMOR AND WEAPONS AS WELL. Put it in that safe and give the Captain the code or something. Please. The Captain's locker is the absolute worst place for the ID. It will suck SO HARD for latejoin Captains. Coming in late and not having your spare does not hurt you. Not having your sword and gun does!

[Slignerd]

Sounds thrilling!

You can replace your energy gun by going to the armory, and the sword can be reclaimed as soon as you see whoever is in its possession. All things considered, I think fewer people will steal the locker, and when they do, the rest of the crew has a greater chance of witnessing the heist.

[Dax Dupont]

The tradeoff to this being that Greyscum that normally steal only the ID will now steal the whole locker, including the Captain's armor, his unique sword, and his energy gun. The ID should be a bit of a challenge to steal, but FOR THE LOVE OF THE EMPEROR, DO NOT FORCE THE GREYSCUM TO STEAL ARMOR AND WEAPONS AS WELL. Put it in that safe and give the Captain the code or something. Please. The Captain's locker is the absolute worst place for the ID. It will suck SO HARD for latejoin Captains. Coming in late and not having your spare does not hurt you. Not having your sword and gun does!

It's almost as if they usually take the ID and then just unlock the locker with that ID. On meta they are right next to each other. On box just a door away.

[kevinz000]

if i get in and hte id's in the locker i'll likely teleport out the entire locker tbh.

[Steelpoint]

Putting it in the safe is a better idea, you can't steal the safe, but its not beyond reason for someone to break into it if they are dedicated enough.

It would stop the shit show of an assistant rushing the Captain's office twenty seconds into the round.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

There should be a 30% chance each round that the captains office has a taser turret inside it set to stunlock anyone who isnt sec or heads.

[Remie Richards]

There should be a 30% chance each round that the captains office has a taser turret inside it set to stunlock anyone who isnt sec or heads.

100%*

[FantasticFwoosh]

Just unwrench it from the floor (if the locker is fixed in place), run back out from the back of your borg stallion and then hit it with a toolbox enough in maint until it bursts open.

Its a under-simplifcation.

[Dax Dupont]

Putting it in the safe is a better idea, you can't steal the safe, but its not beyond reason for someone to break into it if they are dedicated enough.

It would stop the shit show of an assistant rushing the Captain's office twenty seconds into the round.

Seems acceptable, havent seen the safe being used for anything.

[Gun Hog]

Putting it in the safe is a better idea, you can't steal the safe, but its not beyond reason for someone to break into it if they are dedicated enough.

It would stop the shit show of an assistant rushing the Captain's office twenty seconds into the round.

Seems acceptable, havent seen the safe being used for anything.

I also agree with this! (I even said it first as well, lol)

[FantasticFwoosh]

Captain should roundstart with a pre-set written paper combination instruction or mental note to make it idiotproof.

[Dr_bee]

Couldnt this problem be better solved with policy and not code? Why nerf antags because jackass assistant griefers cant control themselves?

[Slignerd]

Couldnt this problem be better solved with policy and not code? Why nerf antags because jackass assistant griefers cant control themselves?

Honestly, I've been struggling on how to respond to this one, but in the end, I just think it's a very, very dumb idea.

There's no way you would ever get a policy like that through. No admin will ever ban an assistant just for stealing an ID. Seriously, that's just not gonna happen. And even assuming that it did, most of the rounds where the ID gets stolen are lowpop rounds, which often have no admin at all. And anything that occurs during such rounds tends to go with no repercussions, as few admin are willing to take action regarding something that happened X rounds ago.

Tweaking game balance is just a more realistic and foolproof solution. I'll be much more comfortable knowing that the ID rests relatively in a safe or a locker, rather than lay out on the table and hinge on whether or not one of the player feels like ignoring an obscure, easily ignored policy. You can't patch poor balance with policies and you can't rely on admin intervention to solve everything, else you just end up with an overmoderated mess, with loads of bullshit slipping through the cracks whenever admins aren't paying attention or feel like letting something slide.

Also, traitors aren't really impacted by this, since they can just emag the airlocks and the locker alike.

[captain sawrge]

Also, traitors aren't really impacted by this, since they can just emag the airlocks and the locker alike.

Wrong.

It makes traitors more reliant on the e-mag to gain access, but at that point they already have an emag so an all-access ID is that much less valuable. The emag is a pretty poorly designed item to begin with considering how much it does. This change would be a stealth buff to emags while also being a nerf to traitors trying to avoid using it.

I don't recall if the captain's office doors have the armored maintenance panels on them, but if not that seems like a far more reasonable change than what OP proposes. The difference in difficulty between hacking an airlock and opening a locker is pretty high, unless there's something I'm unaware of.

[Dr_bee]

Also, traitors aren't really impacted by this, since they can just emag the airlocks and the locker alike.

Wrong.

It makes traitors more reliant on the e-mag to gain access, but at that point they already have an emag so an all-access ID is that much less valuable. The emag is a pretty poorly designed item to begin with considering how much it does. This change would be a stealth buff to emags while also being a nerf to traitors trying to avoid using it.

I don't recall if the captain's office doors have the armored maintenance panels on them, but if not that seems like a far more reasonable change than what OP proposes. The difference in difficulty between hacking an airlock and opening a locker is pretty high, unless there's something I'm unaware of.

The problem is they can just steal the locker into maint and throw a god damned spear at it until it breaks open. The way to fix that would be to either perma anchoring it or making the captains locker take fire-axe level damage to hurt it. or both.

[captain sawrge]

The problem is they can just steal the locker into maint and throw a god damned spear at it until it breaks open. The way to fix that would be to either perma anchoring it or making the captains locker take fire-axe level damage to hurt it. or both.

Or not. Having things be overly secure makes the game dull. I'm not saying this as some sort of greytide slogan or whatever, it's the core design of the game. For there to be the conflict that drives the round and player interactions, things need to not work as well as they should. The more of these little inconveniences and intentional design flaws people try to shore off, the less and less the game as a whole has to offer.

It is a slippery slope. Take a look at most QoL changes, many balance tweaks, new maps vs. old ones, even in policy changes etc. In some aspects of the game, there is a definite and noticeable increase in overall "security," and it's detrimental to the experience.

[Cobby]

remove the spare and have it as a rare maint drop :^)

[AnonymousNow]

Having things be overly secure makes the game dull ... it's the core design of the game. For there to be the conflict that drives the round and player interactions, things need to not work as well as they should.

[BeeSting12]

just watch the cameras on cap's office and when someone comes in to steal it tase them as they leave and space them. i used to do that every round, it was hilarious because every round someone would go for it.

[Reece]

Just kill the spare stealer.

[AnonymousNow]

Just kill the spare stealer.

...space them.

No.

[BeeSting12]

Just kill the spare stealer.

...space them.

No.

Why not? They're doing something to shit on other people's rounds, it's only fair that they can be shit on also. And really under space law, which of course is just a suggestion, the punishment for major trespass, grand theft, (likely resisting arrest, and add other charges as needed, (and there's probably gonna be quite a few depending on how long he's had the stolen all access), adds up to an execution.

[Dr_bee]

Just kill the spare stealer.

...space them.

No.

Why not? They're doing something to shit on other people's rounds, it's only fair that they can be shit on also. And really under space law, which of course is just a suggestion, the punishment for major trespass, grand theft, (likely resisting arrest, and add other charges as needed, (and there's probably gonna be quite a few depending on how long he's had the stolen all access), adds up to an execution.

If the caps ID is stolen by the same person or group of people over and over again at roundstart then they are doing either to grief or to metagame hard.
At a certain point no amount of in game concequences will stop them as they are doing it to griff.

At that point I think there needs to be OOC concequences if the behavior continues, there are a few cases where breaking into the caps office to get all access as a non-antag are justified but in the cases we are talking about here that isnt the case.

if the problem has gotten bad enough that people are suggesting gameplay changes to stop it, then that is a sign that the admins may need to consider stepping in more often, possibly by noting repeat offenders to monitor the behavior and then hand out bans to the people who do it often enough.

[Yakumo_Chen]

there are a few cases where breaking into the caps office to get all access as a non-antag are justified

I do it almost every round as RD, but that's typically because I can actually competently use captain's access and I have zero trust for people who play HoP. An HoS I will relent to if they get on me but since I'm a Good Player nobody usually minds me with it.

But, I play heads of staff so I'm justified. Keeps it out of grey hands too.

--as someone who does do this every round though, I don't think it's going to help moving it anywhere. The safe can be hacked with a multitool and doesn't take much more time then just swiping it off the table. Putting it in the locker just enables the locker getting stolen and that's a whole new set of headaches compared to having it looted in the cap's office.

The ID is there for an emergency if there's no captain or for someone to take the acting cap's position. It's especially important to have it for whoever claims acting captain from the remaining heads if captain and HoP doesn't exist. Making it hard for the legitimate users to get it is a bigger problem then having greytide being able to steal it.

[Dax Dupont]

Just kill the spare stealer.

...space them.

No.

But they are already ruled as valid salid by the badmins.

People in the captain's office or armory are grounds to be shot on the spot especially on roundstart.

Players who attempt to break into the captain's office, head of personnel's office, or the bridge at or near roundstart for no legitimate reason put themselves at risk for being legitimately killed by the captain, heads of staff, or security.

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Rule_1_Precedents.

Policy discussion has also resulted in them being valid outside of roundstart too.

[captain sawrge]

If the caps ID is stolen by the same person or group of people over and over again at roundstart then they are doing either to grief or to metagame hard.
At a certain point no amount of in game concequences will stop them as they are doing it to griff.

At that point I think there needs to be OOC concequences if the behavior continues, there are a few cases where breaking into the caps office to get all access as a non-antag are justified but in the cases we are talking about here that isnt the case.

if the problem has gotten bad enough that people are suggesting gameplay changes to stop it, then that is a sign that the admins may need to consider stepping in more often, possibly by noting repeat offenders to monitor the behavior and then hand out bans to the people who do it often enough.

SS13 is a multiplayer game. It's a multiplayer game driven mainly by player based interactions, the conflict that arises from them, and how the outcome of these conflicts impacts the overall round.
People being "shitters" is within the scope and design of the game. It's expected, sometimes even encouraged, because it's what drives each round. There is not enough content in the actual game for it to be purely co-operative or driven solely based on gamemodes and job gameplay.

Admins and rules are meant to facilitate the game. They aren't meant to play it for you and deal with every solution that arises, because that is where true "no fun allowed" begins. There are plenty of reasonable gameplay measures that can be taken to prevent things like robbing the captain's office, and there are some creative ways to get around them by design.

If you can't handle things going wrong, if you can't handle crime and shenanigans and dealing with conflict, then maybe SS13 isn't the game for you.

[Reece]

^ Harold Robinson tries mugging everytime I am the HOP, then yakety saxes aroundthe station being a little menace.

80% of round it's funny as fuck and fun to chase the little bastard down. If someone is being an ass then be an ass back to them.

[Nilons]

When people loot the captains office or take ill gotten all access from a dickhead greytider in the hops office they're just giving sec an excuse to perma them, let the shitters get filtered out

Even then I've had greyshirts who got the spare first actually give me it without giving themselves access on lowpop

[FantasticFwoosh]

Its especially unlikable how everyone who steals the spare also runs to the arrivals checkpoint fully servicable ID console, which is barely monitored and not manned by security staff at all on any map because few people have the patience to stare at new arrivals awkwardly and not much else.

Usual process of all access shitters in boxstation:

• Do whatever dirty trick to grab spare
• Immediately book it through maint (often assistants) off camera to the arrivals office & change your access
• Now they are free with access in the west-most area of the station (on box & meta generally) to raid EVA, and backdoor security and other sensitive areas off camera and be a peristant annoyance the entire round if they aren't antagonistic

Say what you want about me doing it, but as soon as i catch wind the spare/hop id is taken/looted, i usually go with urgency to the arrivals sec office and smash the ID console with my baton to slow them down since i can't ask the AI to simply depower the office. That office usually gets smashed, ram-raided and looted by everyone since its free security gear for anybody persistant enough to steal a officer id+ (freedom to set people to arrest & delete records) or toolbox open the sec locker by force.

[DemonFiren]

Usually I also grab a few blank IDs on the way to create backups in case security gets on my case.

[Ezel]

Easy solution
Remove all access make the station public no more idd stealing