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Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:30 pm
by delaron
So we have admin notes to help build a pattern of bad behavior. This is needed to help curb impulsive misbehavior and is the stick method. I think it works to a degree but I was wondering if we could add a simple carrot method as positive tracking.
The general idea is to have a goal either assigned to a department or a specific job.
For instance:
Chef: cook x meals
Engineer: maintain X % power
Scientist: Research x levels
etc
When reached the users get a good staff point. Generally tracked for a leader board or just as an appended value on your notes page. Thus having 1 bad round of misbehavior but 99 good rounds could help determine if a perma ban or temp ban is more appropriate as well as perhaps a good indicator for participants in admin events.
Obviously this is bare bones on detail and could be fleshed out but figure I would post the idea and see what others thought.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 4:59 pm
by BeeSting12
Why would I take some arbitrary game mechanics related goal that has no effect on a players behavior into account when deciding if a player should be banned for killing sec FNR?
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:38 pm
by Saegrimr
*cooks a shitton of spaghetti*
*spaces the HoS*
im a good boy
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:43 pm
by kevinz000
BeeSting12 wrote:Why would I take some arbitrary game mechanics related goal that will be inevitably be cheesed and powergamed into the next level of hell and will only consistently reward powergamers that has no effect on a players behavior into account when deciding if a player should be banned for killing sec FNR?
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:08 pm
by delaron
BeeSting12 wrote:Why would I take some arbitrary game mechanics related goal that has no effect on a players behavior into account when deciding if a player should be banned for killing sec FNR?
Probably shouldn't. However I did say, "Thus having 1 bad round of misbehavior but 99 good rounds
could help determine if a perma ban or temp ban is more appropriate as well as perhaps a good indicator for participants in admin events."
So maybe in the instance you are thinking of it shouldn't. However if they escalated a situation too quickly out of hand but have a positive track record of many games it could help you side on a warning. Take it or leave it at your discretion. It also could be a brownie point system for fun admin events when you are looking for a indicator of those that play well with other. Hell it could just be autistic bragging rights.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:11 pm
by delaron
Saegrimr wrote:*cooks a shitton of spaghetti*
*spaces the HoS*
im a good boy
Well you cant really space the HoS while making spaghetti so net result is delayed bad behavior?
inb4 portable kitchen setup next to an air lock
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:19 pm
by BeeSting12
>goal is make 20 bowls of spaghetti
>make my 20 bowls
>grief
>still get GBP
The serious answer is that admins basically can already do this. Let's take me for example. 4518 connections, lets assume each connection is a round played even though it's something more like 1.8 connections/round, I forget. I have 39 notes, several of these are meme notes/requested bans/positive notes but besides the point. Let's assume I have 30 actual notes about poor behavior, which is probably about correct. 4518/30 is roughly 150, meaning that for every 150 rounds, I have one fuckup. There are players with much less than me, but you get the idea.
Admins will look at connection/notes and what the notes are actually about and decide if the player is good or not which will factor into whether he's banned/not. This is generally only for newer players when deciding on a rule zero based on the person just being here to grief, though it can happen with older players, if you're averaging a note every few connections you'll get banned pretty fast. I ban on a case by case basis and not based on how many notes/connection someone gets anyway, I only look at that type of thing when considering a rule zero ban on the basis of the guy likely being a ban evader. This would really only be a stat of who can powergame the system the hardest. What we really need is the beard system back.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:33 pm
by Cobby
I've already told people to ahelp that they want good boy notes but no one has the nerve to actually do it
Edit: or they aren't actually good ^_^
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:35 pm
by cedarbridge
I'd be cool with giving end round text for roles that did whatever their job is and did a lot of it. If robotics made a bunch of bots or made none at all. If the janitor kept the whole station clean, or there were X number of dirty tiles. If the chef made X number of things through the shift. If X% of the station was powered.
Those sorts of things speak to robustness in non-combat ways and can encourage players to do things in their chosen roles that they can point to at the end of a round and feel accomplished without an antag role.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:36 pm
by delaron
BeeSting12 wrote:>goal is make 20 bowls of spaghetti
>make my 20 bowls
>grief
>still get GBP
The serious answer is that admins basically can already do this. Let's take me for example. 4518 connections, lets assume each connection is a round played even though it's something more like 1.8 connections/round, I forget. I have 39 notes, several of these are meme notes/requested bans/positive notes but besides the point. Let's assume I have 30 actual notes about poor behavior, which is probably about correct. 4518/30 is roughly 150, meaning that for every 150 rounds, I have one fuckup. There are players with much less than me, but you get the idea.
Admins will look at connection/notes and what the notes are actually about and decide if the player is good or not which will factor into whether he's banned/not. This is generally only for newer players when deciding on a rule zero based on the person just being here to grief, though it can happen with older players, if you're averaging a note every few connections you'll get banned pretty fast. I ban on a case by case basis and not based on how many notes/connection someone gets anyway, I only look at that type of thing when considering a rule zero ban on the basis of the guy likely being a ban evader. This would really only be a stat of who can powergame the system the hardest. What we really need is the beard system back.
Cool and that on its own merit is great to hear. So forget it being a factor into ban/no ban admin decisions.
Would this be a good metric for privileged staff positions? Does several rounds of good engineering work warrant opening the CE position? Are we still time gating positions?
Is there interest in a goal leader board?
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:37 pm
by delaron
cedarbridge wrote:I'd be cool with giving end round text for roles that did whatever their job is and did a lot of it. If robotics made a bunch of bots or made none at all. If the janitor kept the whole station clean, or there were X number of dirty tiles. If the chef made X number of things through the shift. If X% of the station was powered.
Those sorts of things speak to robustness in non-combat ways and can encourage players to do things in their chosen roles that they can point to at the end of a round and feel accomplished without an antag role.
I agree it would be pretty awesome to add to the non antag role stats for each department. Something to highlight good or better behavior seems a nice hat tip.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:39 pm
by cedarbridge
I mean, if there is appeal in "muh green text" for antags then its likely there's a similar appeal to "See, I wasn't a totally useless chef" in the post-round. Obviously we'd have to consider who and what to include to avoid clutter. We already have fairly long text scrolls post-round for certain antag types.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:43 pm
by Saegrimr
I've screeched about this before, /vg/ has had this for a long ass time. Post-round stats that show things like how dirty the station was, how many times the clown got beaten, whether science were lazy jackasses with research levels.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:46 pm
by BeeSting12
delaron wrote:
Would this be a good metric for privileged staff positions? Does several rounds of good engineering work warrant opening the CE position? Are we still time gating positions?
Is there interest in a goal leader board?
I'd rather see using the system you're speaking of to time gate head roles in a department over adding it as an admin only stat. It could still have its uses in a leaderboard, dick measuring kinda way just saying that I would never use it in the administration way.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:48 pm
by cedarbridge
Saegrimr wrote:I've screeched about this before, /vg/ has had this for a long ass time. Post-round stats that show things like how dirty the station was, how many times the clown got beaten, whether science were lazy jackasses with research levels.
I believe the station cleanliness thing is included because their blood cult gets objectives to cover X number of tiles in blood before summoning.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:10 am
by Cobby
At some point we have to separate the round end stuff because it's gonna be way too cluttered imo.
We should really elevate that byond medal system because that's a great way to do some of this. We just need to give it more spotlight
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:32 am
by cedarbridge
Alternatively, we could swap out the ever present "station goal failed" message with a score based on crew performance for collective robustness. You'd then work out a system that tallies points for food cooked, bots made, books written, % station powered (or power surplus over station requirements to reward super autistic engine tweaking), lack of outstanding arrest records, money in the station vault/ATM, etc.
I'm a huge fan of both department shoutouts and station-wide shoutouts for non-antag play.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 2:47 am
by ShadowDimentio
Why does this thread appear every like 4 months? It's a shit idea and is never gonna get added man.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:34 am
by Qbopper
cedarbridge wrote:I'm a huge fan of both department shoutouts and station-wide shoutouts for non-antag play.
agreed, positive reinforcement works 10000x better than negative reinforcement
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:56 am
by cedarbridge
ShadowDimentio wrote:Why does this thread appear every like 4 months? It's a shit idea and is never gonna get added man.
Not an argument, my dude.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:16 pm
by Cobby
I think people prefer to be recognized individually
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:52 pm
by confused rock
Change “good point” to “good boy point” and see how dumb this sounds. Fuckin lifeweb has this and people love to hate it ironically or otherwise.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:05 pm
by cedarbridge
ExcessiveJMadison wrote:I think people prefer to be recognized individually
To be fair, we've done a pretty good job catering to people who want to play a social game individually too.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:25 pm
by onleavedontatme
As silly as "make 20 bowls of spaghetti and space the HoS" sounds giving people (fractions) of an antag token every time they finished their personal goals for the round would probably be the only effective bribe we could ever use since we lack long term cosmetics/currency/leveling etc. The realize prize on our server is temporary rule immunity.
I mean it isn't gonna happen, but the OP isn't far off from how an effective system would look
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:44 pm
by Cobby
Kor wrote:As silly as "make 20 bowls of spaghetti and space the HoS" sounds giving people (fractions) of an antag token every time they finished their personal goals for the round would probably be the only effective bribe we could ever use since we lack long term cosmetics/currency/leveling etc. The realize prize on our server is temporary rule immunity.
I mean it isn't gonna happen, but the OP isn't far off from how an effective system would look
we should have veteran jumpsuits for jobs if you can complete a feat pertaining to that job ^_^
OR HATS
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:47 pm
by ShadowDimentio
ExcessiveJMadison wrote:Kor wrote:As silly as "make 20 bowls of spaghetti and space the HoS" sounds giving people (fractions) of an antag token every time they finished their personal goals for the round would probably be the only effective bribe we could ever use since we lack long term cosmetics/currency/leveling etc. The realize prize on our server is temporary rule immunity.
I mean it isn't gonna happen, but the OP isn't far off from how an effective system would look
we should have veteran jumpsuits for jobs if you can complete a feat pertaining to that job ^_^
OR HATS
We had beards for a bit and I thought that was a good idea but for some reason they were removed. BRING BACK BEARDS, 2017!!
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:38 pm
by Hatfish
Do this anyways, nonantag goals would be killer.
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:05 pm
by cedarbridge
I'm going to start going through the code and seeing what sort of bookkeeping would be required for simple until-round-end non-antag shoutout text. A few notes on my intended design:
1) The chosen department/role that gets a shoutout may not always be the same or it might just be a couple common departments (number of bots made by robotics, for example.)
2) I do not intend for any of this to persist across rounds. This is meant to be as fleeting as traitor greentext. You did a good job, the game calls you a good boy at the end.
3) Some shoutouts may have to be department based instead of role based. (Engineering gets a shoutout for their power surplus for shift over station demand. Cargo gets a shoutout for their final balance or total exports.)
4) Department goals will not have memory text or a roundstart message. This isn't meant to be as invasive as antag objectives or be easily confusable with antag objectives but should be generally doable by just doing your assigned job in a moderately robust way. If the chef makes 5 burgers and then fucks off all shift, they shouldn't be getting a good boy star.
5) All departments together could have their scores added together and generate a station wide performance rating. I'd like to be able to subtract points for station damage (if you barely make it out with the station mostly in shreds, corporate just recycles the crew for parts and sends in new clones) but I'll have to look into the sort of mechanics required for that. This could even encourage engineers to actually fix things.
6) Ideally, the whole thing would only take up 3 lines of text. Could possibly cram it into 1 but it would be tighter. Three lines would allow for a best performer, worst performer, and the station total performance grade.
These are initial plans and something I plan to iterate on through development.
(And no, there will be no admin note integration because wew)
Re: Role Good Point System
Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:18 pm
by NanookoftheNorth
I think when I played on a different server they had this sort of scoring system. I think it was... Facepunch or something like that? It was a long time ago.
It was based on how much the station was intact, the percentage of surviving crew, percentage of escaped crew, percentage of crew in critical condition, percentage of time the station had power, percentage of the station that had power, R&D levels, percentage of detained traitors, killed changlings, that sort of thing. From there the crew would get a grade (typically failing).
I'd find it fun to have some sort of recognition for the individual player who makes it to round end as a non-antag, like maybe only showing their stats at the end depending on their job. So, for example, as security, number of deaths, number of kills, number of stuns, number of times stunned, number of times slipped, number of antag arrests, that sort of thing.