/tg/Station 13

Basically, reintroduce Malfunction as a mode, and keep traitor AIs where they are.
While traitor AIs can still do everything they can currently do, malfunction AIs will get a wide variety of powers and a new CPU/research system instead of just points to buy things with to make them able to compete as a one-man antag.
Ideas, suggestions, comments?


And no I'm not going to promise to code this because I have too much stuff right now but hey, maybe when I get time

Rework malf mode to be a computer virus that can ping-pong between APCs but can't move between APCs once the override starts

Anonmare wrote:Rework malf mode to be a computer virus that can ping-pong between APCs but can't move between APCs once the override starts

i'm trying to find the john oxford-tier post where i tried to suggest something like that so i can claim that this was my original idea

it's also nice that once the ai is revealed as malf there's no hesitation - you know that it's you and the crew versus all the silicons, which is a good change of pace from the traitor modes

I'd be down for this. Right now tator Ai is just wait for the crew/antags to kill 75% of the station and then pop doomsday and win.

I was just thinking about this recently. I kind of miss having suddenly every door and firelock bolt and shut and everybody going "ohhh shit" for 3 seconds before telecomms got shut off.

If there were a way to make the mode playable for more than just the 3 people who preemptively grabbed tools and insulated gloves maybe it would be worth readding, but the main flaw when it was removed was that it just locked too many people out of actually enjoying the conflict of the round because very few people were equipped to even break out of a bolted down room, much less confront the AI directly.

Half the adventure was scrambling for whatever you had on hand to find a way out. Rushing to finish that thermite before the AI realized and water bombed your chem maker, bashing out windows to avoid the shocked doors before the plasma fire spreads to your room, scavenging corpses for tools and space protection on the way out of danger to regroup with survivors.

And the "hey guys just got back from mining what's going on here?" memes

cedarbridge wrote:Half the adventure was scrambling for whatever you had on hand to find a way out. Rushing to finish that thermite before the AI realized and water bombed your chem maker, bashing out windows to avoid the shocked doors before the plasma fire spreads to your room, scavenging corpses for tools and space protection on the way out of danger to regroup with survivors.

And the "hey guys just got back from mining what's going on here?" memes

I agree, but even then the second main issue IIRC was that the fights on the AI core were incredibly repetitive, too. Either the borgs were incompetent or the AI got caught too early and was easily stomped by the exact same entry method as the previous malf round, or there are 30 airlocks that are bolt-shocked surrounding the core and the ghosts get to sit for 5 to 10 minutes until the nuke goes off or the AI fucks up and lets itself die somehow.

Obligatory re-add telesci.

Though I remember a majority of my AI kills were from gibtoniting a hole in the side of the satellite and throwing floor tiles.

Most borgs still don't realise you can move the turrets around

i think if people had a reason (beyond "this is nice and a good idea") to help get other people out of bolted down rooms when the ai went nuts then it could help resolve the issue of "only some assistants and engineers can play the game now"

Technically anyone can now with destructible machinery. All you need to do is grab a fire extinguisher to smash the closet blue APC or camera or vent (why can you smash a vent off the floor?) to help the better equipped crewmembers

Anonmare wrote:Technically anyone can now with destructible machinery. All you need to do is grab a fire extinguisher to smash the closet blue APC or camera or vent (why can you smash a vent off the floor?) to help the better equipped crewmembers

you can smash a vent in so it collapses on itself maybe?

and yeah but that still bolts you in, so that's a bit of an issue

There's usually multiple points of ingress to a room, if there isn't - most people have at least the basic tools on them.

If not then there's only so much you can do, even a lawyer is powerless against a nuclear operative without preparation

Anonmare wrote:There's usually multiple points of ingress to a room, if there isn't - most people have at least the basic tools on them.

I suppose it depends on the station layout and job

it's going to be easier for some people to find their way out on their own and it's probably impossible to find a good way to incentivize helping people anyways

I mean, I don't think its really feasible to build an antag that is an overwhelming panic response but also counterable by literally everyone without tools or assistance. The panic and adventure in Malfunction is that many times you WILL be helpless. You'll have to struggle, try to find help, look for any options for escape. Its a struggle because its supposed to be.

yeah i'm not saying it needs to be easy mode for everyone, i was just wondering if there would be some way to incentivize saving other people beyond the fact that it's nice + more people helps, but you can't really in any way I could think of

Playing traitor AI on a slow round is fantastic. I have plenty of time to try and hack every APC I want, set up a plan with whatever cyborgs I have on hand, and try and lay everything I can get down before the crew starts to get suspicious and catch on to my schemes.

There's a certain thrill in trying to hide every action I do to ensure I'm not found out. Try and see how many rooms I can bolt-depower down to hack the APC within it before the crew finally finds one and tries to get in. And, when I am caught, there's the thrill of scrambling to set everything in motion before they can get too prepared and shut me down before I go loud.

Watching the chaos unfold of triggering the doomsday and watching everyone go into a full blown panic is lovely. If I'm confident enough I won't even turn off comms, I'll spend the whole time gloating over the radio and roleplaying the classic malfunctioning AI while I thwart what few actions the crew can take to stop me.

I do want to be able to relive that on Malf mode. With no other traitors to ruin the round, it gives me plenty of time to do what I want and move the round how I prefer: slow, but with a sweet ending.

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I think the biggest issue that needs to be fixed if malf mode comes back is for the AI to have some basic defense against EMPs. EMPs shut AIs down worse then any amount of bombs or hacking can, because you don't even have to tear down a wall to do it. I have a LOT of ideas posted in my feedback thread for AIs though, and not much of them have gone through.

Yakumo_Chen wrote:Playing traitor AI on a slow round is fantastic. I have plenty of time to try and hack every APC I want, set up a plan with whatever cyborgs I have on hand, and try and lay everything I can get down before the crew starts to get suspicious and catch on to my schemes.

There's a certain thrill in trying to hide every action I do to ensure I'm not found out. Try and see how many rooms I can bolt-depower down to hack the APC within it before the crew finally finds one and tries to get in. And, when I am caught, there's the thrill of scrambling to set everything in motion before they can get too prepared and shut me down before I go loud.

Watching the chaos unfold of triggering the doomsday and watching everyone go into a full blown panic is lovely. If I'm confident enough I won't even turn off comms, I'll spend the whole time gloating over the radio and roleplaying the classic malfunctioning AI while I thwart what few actions the crew can take to stop me.

The amount of sneaky pokerfacing required for a successful old-style malf was really high. You have to keep the borgs under control, find a good time to nab the captain/RD and space their IDs, find a safe time to space the spare board, wipe the R&D servers, hide your APCs from prowling greyshirts or engineers setting up solars, convincingly name fall guys when you slip even slightly, stir up just the right sort of trouble to make distractions away from your preparations, and so on.

All of this is even harder on full population. One of my proudest moments was going delta on a minimum timer and having OOC after talking about how they had absolutely no idea that it was me until the timer started and the station turned into a fireball. AI is a fairly difficult role in the first place so its fitting that the antagonist role built for it should also be difficult.

gives all malf powers to traitor ai then bring back malf mode meme

but for real I think it could be interesting.
imo edit:could kind of see turning traitor ai into syndicate ai, lowering the price of the law board, and changing it to include your name as syndicate agent in the ai laws. I mean i guess what; you could buy a syndi/binary key to holler at the ai for this. that way you'd have a for sure way to get the ai's cooperation with you. negatives to this is I guess you couldn't do silly laws but you could still just order it to. alternatively make the law board now like a wireless one time use item that directly adds your name to the ai laws instead, so it still has a unique purpose. also also you could maybe keep it at 14 or whatever it is, then if the ai is just a normal ai, completely turn it into a traitor ai with your name in the laws. giving you the bonus of an ai with powers. possible nerfs could be limit the powers the ai gets so its not total malf levels but could have camera mics and something else. Maybe make it unable to be reset once used and possibly explode when killed/carded so it can't rat you out when it's dead


the main way I remember dying as cedarbridge said was old mining where blessed heretic at the mention of malf would have two reaction zero gibtonite that would destroy the entire ai sat instantly killing you if you were still in the sat. Also I think it was being old mining it was a lot easier to get a ton of gibtonite with no danger to collect. edit: also mining was RIGS and not flimsy suits

TheWiznard wrote:the main way I remember dying as cedarbridge said was old mining where blessed heretic at the mention of malf would have two reaction zero gibtonite that would destroy the entire ai sat instantly killing you if you were still in the sat. Also I think it was being old mining it was a lot easier to get a ton of gibtonite with no danger to collect. edit: also mining was RIGS and not flimsy suits

The majority issue was the free RIG suits from space mining more than the gibtonite. The gib was the blasting charge that could only be placed thanks to the plated RIG.

So, if Malf were to come back as a gamemode, what would change to make it fit as a solo antag? I can only really think of more abilities, but im kinda at a loss for what those could be. maybe something that is just a remote emag? Idk

If there was a better way for the AI to move around besides APCs it could lessen the repetition of the final battle without reducing it to a game of hide and seek (mech control kind of does this but it's pretty situational as it requires a mech to exist and not be occupied)

Maybe a power that makes the AI core grow spider legs that skitter around really quickly

wasnt the whole reason malf ai became traitor ai was because people got fed up with sole antagonists not knowing how to play it well and that rounds were short and cookie-cutter?

have we just come full circle to wanting it back now? just leave it as-is imo, the only difference between malf ai and traitor ai is if they're solo or not.

PKPenguin321 wrote:If there was a better way for the AI to move around besides APCs it could lessen the repetition of the final battle without reducing it to a game of hide and seek (mech control kind of does this but it's pretty situational as it requires a mech to exist and not be occupied)

Overriding an occupied mech should trap the puny meatsack inside. Possibly with option to forcibly eject them.
Bonus horror points for turning the mech's internal air supply off and strolling into a fire. Or carrying them into lava and ejecting them, or abducting them off into space, or whatever.

Mech domination forcibly ejects the pilot and moves the AI into the mech

One of the main issues with malf mode I think was that you only had 100 points to work with, hacking didn't give them any like it does now. With limited resources, you generally had to play a certain way or those points are wasted.

That was my impression anyway

I dont want malfunction back, I just want a proper nuke instead of this pansy doomsday device. Also I want the counter back for the nuke because that timer was always terrifying