/tg/Station 13

So, When you join the shift and heard *Static syndicate sounds* You want to cry from the internalized oppression brought to you because of the two or more fucking snowflakes on your team. The little syndicate shits that know nothing about basic game mechanics or how to even play syndicate operative. I'm going to explain in vivid detail why it should be whitelisted.

The tele-crystal distribution, This is the most difficult rocket science shit you can have ever put into the game for the special snowflakes on the team. When the boss and other two syndicates are telling you to put the uplink in the machine, You've gone too far. These snowflakes don't know what an uplink is....You can tell the snowflakes it's "that radio looking thing in your backpack". They'll tell you "I don't have one..." *sigh*. After you struggle to take off their bag from them as they run around trying to prevent you from helping them, You show them what it is. "Oh," They say. *SIGH*

Team coordination, Now the special snowflakes don't really have an issue with this as much as the "I know what I'm doing" kind of ops. I'll admit to being one of those guys who tries to go solo and leaves the team. But it ends up most of the time of everyone being dead and or one fucking syndicate who is a pro, Dunks it and nukes the station. Sadly, The good players are all onboard the station because they'd rather work as a fucking team to do their objective (Protect the station) than be with the syndicate team (Destroy the station). This complaint is more aimed towards the older players who don't understand teamwork. The snowflakes kind of just follow you around where ever you go...

Theres probably a case to be made for changing the tele-crystal distribution, but the idea of a Syndie Ops white-list is silly. Sometimes the antag team is new or bad, sometimes the command staff and security are new or bad. Sometimes both are inept and its magical. Also this is a rules/code change suggestion and probably doesnt belong in general chat.

EagleWiz wrote:Theres probably a case to be made for changing the tele-crystal distribution

It's a simple system that works perfectly, It should not have to be changed.

You've said why this might be a good idea but now answer these:

1. How do you expect anybody to get good at playing nuke ops if we never let bad players try them out to learn from experience and their mistakes?
2. How would this system work and who gets whitelisted?

while i dont think whitelisting is a good idea, i do think that telecrystals should be distributed evenly automatically and THEN mix and match for a mech or whatever afterwards. most op rounds i see or that im in the first 5+ minutes are getting everyone to donate and distribute tc correctly, which is a massive pain in the ass. making auto distribution the default would be a really good thing.

You missed the hut. This is too dumb even for the hut, though.

PKPenguin321 wrote:1. How do you expect anybody to get good at playing nuke ops if we never let bad players try them out to learn from experience and their mistakes?

They could read https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Nuclear_Operative, apply for the antag role on the forums and answer a couple simple (but crucial) questions showing they have read/understand things. If you want to remain simplistic. Make it clear that they must apply on the forums in order to unlock it in-game, so there is no confusion.

Just like with Reebe and Clockcultists. People who are whitelisted could maybe be permitted to experiment ingame at the Syndicate Outpost and get accustomed to things if they feel the need to. Just like Reebe during non clock cult rounds, they would be barred from raiding the station, however. Rule-wise and Ability-wise, And they cannot become Test Ops during Nuke Ops.

PKPenguin321 wrote:2. How would this system work and who gets whitelisted?

The system would likely need to be set in place by coders. And kept in check by administrators who feel like handling it, or administrators in general.
Obviously, whitelist those who showed enough interest to sign up, read at-least the important bits, and proved they did by posting and answering the aformentioned questions properly enough. It doesn't have to be complex.

Just my thoughts, though. I feel that getting it all to work/setup as i described would be difficult, even if it seems a bit simplistic.

Alternatively, a friendly admin could show up as a "Syndicate Commander" Or something and give people general advice or help at base if needed/people are confused, i dunno.

Pascal125 wrote:
Make it clear that they must apply on the forums in order to unlock it in-game, so there is no confusion.

Just like with Reebe and Clockcultists. People who are whitelisted could maybe be permitted to experiment ingame at the Syndicate Outpost and get accustomed to things if they feel the need to. Just like Reebe during non clock cult rounds, they would be barred from raiding the station, however.

The clock cult has a experiment area because you build things, and theres a bunch of ways to do it. The Syndicate Training area would consist of putting a TP upload in a machine, getting on a clearly marked ship, and maybe setting a course on the console. That ghost role idea is so dumb that coderbus is probably already working on it.

Ops whitlisting has been brought up before and shot down each time, the codebase isn't into them.

I still think we should whitelist the LEADER, and then really drive it into everyone else's head that they HAVE to listen to the leader.
The issue is also that often ops are so new to the game, they are unresponsive to people talking to them, and don't even know the most basic stuff like how to fill an o2 tank.

legoscape as much as it pains me to say this trust me i suffer from newbie teammates all the time and i'd be all for it except for the fact that we were all new once.

people have to learn.
they won't get good at it if they don't. This applies to every job, and gamemode, and antag position. The only problem is if they refuse to learn, and most people learn pretty well after a few times.
This won't solve anything because if you whitelist it people who don't know how to play it will never learn it outside of other servers/local testing.

Stop taking things so serious. Hilarious flukes are part of the game.

i reread the post and i realized the reasoning is so garbage i regret posting.

Antags should definitely have a general playtime req tbh

playtime req would be good but whitelists aren't.

ExcessiveJMadison wrote:Antags should definitely have a general playtime req tbh

nah

captain sawrge wrote:

ExcessiveJMadison wrote:Antags should definitely have a general playtime req tbh

nah

ya

eh let it die

anytime I suggested that maybe we should quiz people if they know how to turn on their internals before letting them be a nukeop people were like "woah thats just like server XY where you need to suck admin dick to be the hos"

leibniz wrote:eh let it die

anytime I suggested that maybe we should quiz people if they know how to turn on their internals before letting them be a nukeop people were like "woah thats just like server XY where you need to suck admin dick to be the hos"

Hey at least the jetpacks are O2 and not CO2
Forced tutorials almost almost always despised, plus I think most of the fun of this game comes from learning the hard way. That just becomes a severe detriment when it's a team antagonist and you just attached C4 to table between you and the guy you're handing it to.

Saegrimr wrote:

leibniz wrote:eh let it die

anytime I suggested that maybe we should quiz people if they know how to turn on their internals before letting them be a nukeop people were like "woah thats just like server XY where you need to suck admin dick to be the hos"

Hey at least the jetpacks are O2 and not CO2
Forced tutorials almost almost always despised, plus I think most of the fun of this game comes from learning the hard way. That just becomes a severe detriment when it's a team antagonist and you just attached C4 to table between you and the guy you're handing it to.

Part of the game

legoscape wrote:snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes snowflakes

Can you stop saying this like you're making a point with it? There are many pet peeves but this one is mine.

Yeah it's still fall its not even winter

I hate incompetence as much as the next guy. Especially in team antags, and it's doubly worse with nuke ops. There needs to be a minimum playtime requirement for ops. 50 connections which is roughly 24 hours worth of gameplay for most people seems reasonable to me, and maybe one time playing as a normal op to be able to roll leader. Whitelisting it in a manner that requires applying is a bad idea though.

It's kind of fucked up that the most successful nuke op strat is still to leave your team behind and rush the disk by yourself

Lazengann wrote:It's kind of fucked up that the most successful nuke op strat is still to leave your team behind and rush the disk by yourself

fucking desword

kevinz000 wrote:

Lazengann wrote:It's kind of fucked up that the most successful nuke op strat is still to leave your team behind and rush the disk by yourself

fucking desword

>mfw captain doesnt get a riot shotgun roundstart

BeeSting12 wrote:

kevinz000 wrote:

Lazengann wrote:It's kind of fucked up that the most successful nuke op strat is still to leave your team behind and rush the disk by yourself

fucking desword

>mfw captain doesnt get a riot shotgun roundstart

Damn powergamers

All shitposting aside I can reliably take out or completely fuck over the captain/disk escort even in warops with ~60-80tc.
So yeah the lone rush is actually really powerful which is sad because it's a team mode.

Incompetence is fine as long as you aren't so incompetent where you ignore any messages or people saying stuff to you, and can't even control the game itself properly. Not knowing how to use guns and stuff well is fine.

Would hud elements help with operative teamplay? Give ops directional indicators to each other and a Hud of all their health-bars at all time maybe?

Maybe some buttons that give out info or orders to the other living operatives?

I mean they are supposed to be special forces style military operatives so it would make some sense for them to have some kind of tactical network hud to make teamwork easier.

Half the problem I have as an op trying to play as a team is the low view range means finding my teammates is difficult, and the nature of operative rounds means communication via chat isnt really possible.

Bawhoppennn wrote:Incompetence is fine as long as you aren't so incompetent where you ignore any messages or people saying stuff to you, and can't even control the game itself properly. Not knowing how to use guns and stuff well is fine.

i read that as incomptinence

I could only see a whitelist work if the whitelist was for the Ops leader, and that a system is in place that if no whitelisted person is available for the Ops lead role that a non-whitelisted person is made a Ops secondary leader.

But honestly... I don't feel tgstation's environment supports a whitelist in any capacity.

I think a better solution is having TCs start evenly split and then the team has to work together to pool them if necessary.