/tg/Station 13

So what's the difference between a cyborg and an organic member of the crew? Cyborgs have to follow a second set of rules. Other than these secondary rules, they are not obligated to do anything, they can even act like they are regular crew as long as they are following their laws (even if subjectively). I read this in the policy discussion board,

oranges wrote:it's funny how borgs went from a punishment role to this

edit: oh dear page 3

It's true cyborgs don't feel like punishment, so what can be done for them to feel like punishment, or if not punishment then at least separate them significantly from the organic crew? I thought of this:

- All cyborgs have a lawset inherited from master AI or default (as is currently);
- By silicon law, all cyborgs are forbidden to leave the interior of the AI satellite;
- Humans can request cyborg assistance under a concrete orders system;
- Cyborgs assigned an order can leave the AI satellite if their order so demands;
- After fulfilling their order the cyborgs must return to the AI satellite and remain there until given further orders;
- The Captain and all Heads and the AI can request cyborg assistance (give orders), nobody else has such access at roundstart;
- Cyborgs must obey all orders, no matter who in reality submits them (clown using stolen access is valid), as long as the orders don't conflict with their lawset. Their main silicon laws are primary;
- For the sake of the cyborg players and the objective of keeping them separated from regular, organic crew, orders must be concise and not round lasting. The captain cannot order cyborgs to bodyguard him for the duration of the round, but he can order them to bodyguard him while he investigates the science department. It is important that cyborgs leave their confinement, do thing they are told, and return to confinement as soon as possible;
- Cyborgs must ignore all orders that do not establish a clear objective to be accomplished, dismiss them as unclear and impossible to respond;
- Cyborgs cannot interfere with organic crew activities: if a security cyborg (or any type) sees security unloading lethals on criminal scum they cannot interfere if it is not part of their orders. The silicon laws should only prevent the cyborgs from action, not induce them to action, they cannot be provoked;
- Cyborgs are to be treated as instruments, as a means to an end, disposable but not to be trashed unnecessarily (ambushing a cyborg just for funsies).

The means with which orders are relayed and other details can be discussed.

I think this would accomplish turning cyborgs into a role of punishment and also keep them as a more unique role that isn't all access robot greyshirt. You would never see a cyborg about unless it was doing something it was requested to do, it is passing by you but not roaming aimlessly. When you request the assistance of a cyborg you can be sure you are getting a capable, specialized helping hand, assuming there are cyborgs available, and not scream fruitlessly into the telecomms for several minutes until you give up.

Okay but why does it have to be a punishment role

Saegrimr wrote:Okay but why does it have to be a punishment role

When a virologist stays in Virology, he has a thing to do.
When a scientist stays in Xenobio, he has a thing to do.
When warden stays in the armory, he has alot of responsibilities which makes it not seem boring as fuck unless it's extended.
The AI already has alot of responibilities, can open doors from far away, and can fucking alert the crew of a guy getting dragged away if cameras aren't cut.

What the hell is a cyborg supposed to do at the satelite, especially if they aren't engineer? Wait for nuclear operatives to rush? Wait for clock cultists or a traitor to try and kill/convert the AI? That would be boring as hell. Nerfing silicons or something would be a better idea than 'ok have fun in this one corner of the map where no one even fucking needs you except in one scenario or something i dunno'

EDIT: I know it said punishment but even the fucking permabrig, gulag, or normal brig has shit to do other than wait patiently

but if they're compelled by the rules to just sit in the fucking do-nothing corner the player on the other end of the net connection might as well just tab out

This is a lot of words for something that nobody asked for or would ever want.

oh wow
people are having fun
lets take away that fun and make them log out/ghost/tab out instead, they don't deserve any fun!

elite post lad

imblyings wrote:elite post lad

Wait until you see the post to revamp permabrig rp mechanics

Revamp assistant mechanics so that they stay in maintenance and are automatically gulag'd by security without trial if they're ever caught in a public or departmental area

Anonmare wrote:Revamp assistant mechanics so that they stay in maintenance and are automatically gulag'd by security without trial if they're ever caught in a public or departmental area

this would actually be a neat gimmick for a unique role
old shadowling, when are you coming home?

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Revamp assistant mechanics so that they stay in maintenance and are automatically gulag'd by security without trial if they're ever caught in a public or departmental area

this would actually be a neat gimmick for a unique role
old shadowling, when are you coming home?

nightmare

Armhulen wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Revamp assistant mechanics so that they stay in maintenance and are automatically gulag'd by security without trial if they're ever caught in a public or departmental area

this would actually be a neat gimmick for a unique role
old shadowling, when are you coming home?

nightmare

When maintainers stop conspiring to remove stuns

lol this sounds horrible

Punishment roles were always a stupid concept.

See way back when goon spawned clowns in a maint room with only access to a space airlock that killed the clown.
Clown still got picked then talked people into releasing them still had fun.
I think they straight up removed clown for a while after that.

Cyborgs have tons of downsides and people are not chomping at the bit to be them. Cloning reigns supreme in player choice and soft cunt admin policy, force borging is basically an on par with execution punishment.

This is fucking awful and wouldn’t help anything at all

Last I checked borgs weren't a punishment role, force borging is just a mercy punishment over execution to give the PLAYER a way to stay in the round after their CHARACTER does something worth killing them over.

Unless this entire thread is one sarcastic shitpost that somehow managed to crawl its way out of the hub.

Armhulen wrote:

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Revamp assistant mechanics so that they stay in maintenance and are automatically gulag'd by security without trial if they're ever caught in a public or departmental area

this would actually be a neat gimmick for a unique role
old shadowling, when are you coming home?

nightmare

it sucks

the quote in the op was not "we need to make cyborg a punishment role again" it's "lol cyborg used to be a punishment role but now we argue about it"

kevinz000 wrote:oh wow
people are having fun
lets take away that fun and make them log out/ghost/tab out instead, they don't deserve any fun!

Anonmare is right, do what OP said but with assistants and with permabrig/maint instead of AI sat.
If an assistant is caught outside of perma/maint and no-one says they requested him to assist them, assistant is nonhuman and valid.

"Make playing cyborg suck so they suck"

This is a terrible idea and doesn't sound fun in the slightest for borg players. Borging someone as punishment tends to be done to ensure they can't continue their dickish ways due to laws, but allows them to remain in the game. Also it's inefficient. If someone cries for medical assistance from the other side of the station, by the time you get from the AI sat to them, odds are they will be very dead. Roaming around the station gives far better reaction speed to things happening.

Yes it would put a burden on cyborg players, but (at least) on paper it's a way to make the role and the actions of cyborgs more clear cut with the end of avoiding the unnecessary and endless OOC drama. Most of the playerbase and admins cannot accept Asimov no matter what.

Scott wrote:Yes it would put a burden on cyborg players, but (at least) on paper it's a way to make the role and the actions of cyborgs more clear cut with the end of avoiding the unnecessary and endless OOC drama. Most of the playerbase and admins cannot accept Asimov no matter what.

There's a lot of assumptions in this post and most of them aren't actually grounded in gameplay.

Let me fix your idea.

Instead forcing borgs to stay at the satellite, force them physically to stay in their designated departments (make science borg and mule). Then the head of staff would have a remote, which would allow to enable borg to move outside the department if needed, and be called to their boss.

Lumbermancer wrote:Instead forcing borgs to stay at the satellite, force them physically to stay in their designated departments (make science borg and mule). Then the head of staff would have a remote, which would allow to enable borg to move outside the department if needed, and be called to their boss.

But why would anyone want this

ShadowDimentio wrote:

Lumbermancer wrote:Instead forcing borgs to stay at the satellite, force them physically to stay in their designated departments (make science borg and mule). Then the head of staff would have a remote, which would allow to enable borg to move outside the department if needed, and be called to their boss.

But why would anyone want this

For domination and submission.

Selea wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:

Lumbermancer wrote:Instead forcing borgs to stay at the satellite, force them physically to stay in their designated departments (make science borg and mule). Then the head of staff would have a remote, which would allow to enable borg to move outside the department if needed, and be called to their boss.

But why would anyone want this

For domination and submission.

Nani the fuck

kevin of all people should know

Lumbermancer wrote:Let me fix your idea.

Instead forcing borgs to stay at the satellite, force them physically to stay in their designated departments (make science borg and mule). Then the head of staff would have a remote, which would allow to enable borg to move outside the department if needed, and be called to their boss.

What did this equally awful idea fix?

ShadowDimentio wrote:But why would anyone want this

To foster roleplaying and interactions between players other than murder.

cedarbridge wrote:What did this equally awful idea fix?

The original idea.

kevinz000 wrote:

Selea wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:

Lumbermancer wrote:Instead forcing borgs to stay at the satellite, force them physically to stay in their designated departments (make science borg and mule). Then the head of staff would have a remote, which would allow to enable borg to move outside the department if needed, and be called to their boss.

But why would anyone want this

For domination and submission.

Nani the fuck

Well the point of people with such ideas is dominate over poor inhuman silicon beings and humilate them. Put them in distant cage and total mind control. Claim ownership over them to treat them as their slaves.
They want to feel their power to do everything, what he want with slaves. To feel difference in rights. Humans can do everything. Cyborg can nothing without permission of their masters.
I think, that good idea to put in this case pet bowls to the sattelite. To force them feed like animals. It's even more humilating ,since cyborgs have no need to eat.
Also , significant factor, that it's Punishment to be such slave.
Possibly they are very horny from this idea.

Lumbermancer and Scott, did I understanded you correctly?

We already have a role for that. It's called a PAI.

PAI HAVE RIGHTS TOO AAAAA

>insert picture of a cyborg
SHODAN
>Zoomed in picture of the cyborg
Get the plasma

Lumbermancer wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:But why would anyone want this

To foster roleplaying and interactions between players other than murder.

Literally how does sealing borgs into their department foster roleplaying

And lets say it does foster roleplaying (somehow?), what sort of troglodyte thinks that's worth more than the catastrophic fun loss from only being able to access 1/8th of the map

Scott does.

Why not make cyborgization count against Die a glorious death? Nothing glorious to be trapped in a prison of steel that is your body now. That is about the extent of making it more punishable.

PathOfChaos1 wrote:Why not make cyborgization count against Die a glorious death? Nothing glorious to be trapped in a prison of steel that is your body now. That is about the extent of making it more punishable.

It does count against it