/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:59 pm**

Many features can't be properly used because of short rounds.How can we adjust game to make rounds longer?

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:55 pm**

Remove all bombs.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:06 pm**

Goodboy points for repairing the station rather than calling the shuttle which can be redeemed for antag tokens. This applies to security too.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:52 pm**

Cull half the playerbase and revert several months of """quality of life""" features.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:57 pm**

I do not feel that re-balancing all our content to achieve the goal of longer rounds is really worth pursuing.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:58 pm**

You don't have to rebalance anything. You just need to remove explosives. Structural damage of the station is the reason of 80% of early shuttle calls, and I have data to back this up.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:17 pm**

DemonFiren wrote:revert several months of """quality of life""" features.

This but unironically.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:35 pm**

DemonFiren wrote:Cull half the playerbase

This but unironically

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:18 pm**

Removing quality of life shit because autists dont like having things not be repetitive grind is dumb

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:21 pm**

You could try to add more station goals that are really hard to make/do but make the rewards really OP/fun. It would give people incentive to stay and try for it.

Giving random crew members goon-esque objectives to work on for discount greentext.

Have less traitors are roundstart but increase the chances of people becoming one mid round.

Bombs are more difficult to make/harder to hide.

Give departments strong endgame projects to work towards

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:04 pm**

Remove QoL changes

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:20 pm**

Making jobs shorter is a way of working around short rounds, if you don't want those make rounds longer

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:32 pm**

Remove players. Boom, infinite round time

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:35 pm**

D&B wrote:Remove QoL changes

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:53 pm**

Add a traitor objective to force the round to end within a certain time, watch people endlessly recall the shuttle just in case someone has this objective to cuck them out of greentext

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:58 pm**

Only way to make rounds longer is to lessen the stress on the hos/captain since they control round length, which would mean nerfing antags or limiting what they are allowed to do

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:47 pm**

Lumbermancer wrote:You don't have to rebalance anything. You just need to remove explosives. Structural damage of the station is the reason of 80% of early shuttle calls, and I have data to back this up.

>Remove structural damage
>This huge system and one of the biggest and coolest features in the game

Fuck no.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:14 pm**

you're deranged if you think 5 minutes in toxins should give someone the ability to destroy half the station and cause effective damage that would eat well over an hour to fix if 3-4 people worked on it

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:25 pm**

And you're deranged if you think removing all explosions and structural damage is a worthwhile trade for longer rounds.

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:34 pm**

You could play on a server that has longer rounds on average

Posted: **Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:56 pm**

I'm not even talking round duration you twit bombs are not balanced by any means of the word for relative impact in comparison to required effort

Regardless saying "Just go to a server with longer round durations" is stupid because regardless of what you think longer rounds encourage more problems and more solutions around said problems, it isn't as bad as it is with instant singulo releases forcing people to just afk for a shuttle call a few months but it does still feel like people tend to duck out of any mild threat the second it occurs.

though kor is right you kinda have to give the hos/captain a reason to stay if you want longer rounds

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:25 am**

Make toxins make bombs out of canisters instead of TTVs. Harder to blow up the station if you're carting around an obvious canister with wires sticking out of it.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:12 am**

- no shuttle call until 1 hr no matter what

there, longer rounds.
better rounds? who knows.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:07 am**

Lumbermancer wrote:Remove all bombs.

and

DemonFiren wrote:revert several months of """quality of life""" features.

...

iamgoofball wrote:Removing quality of life shit because autists dont like having things not be repetitive grind is dumb

I know you may not like hearing this but some things have been balanced around being tedious to create/do. When you remove those without adding a difficulty somewhere else, you ARE effectively buffing said item.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:52 am**

Selea wrote:Many features can't be properly used because of short rounds.How can we adjust game to make rounds longer?

Play on terry

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:52 am**

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Selea wrote:Many features can't be properly used because of short rounds.How can we adjust game to make rounds longer?
Play on terry

Not even a joke they have like 2 hour rounds on average

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:55 am**

Lumbermancer wrote:You don't have to rebalance anything. You just need to remove explosives. Structural damage of the station is the reason of 80% of early shuttle calls, and I have data to back this up.

Well, where is it?

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:27 am**

>game is stressful and and things break down way faster than they can be repaired causing players to reset the round rather than stick it out
>we can make rounds longer by reverting QoL changes and making things more tedious and stressful

???

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:02 am**

I guess the mistake is that QoL is interchangeable with powercreep in some cases.

Faster and easier building and repairing is a QoL change that supports longer rounds.

Roundstart DNA Splice machine for botany just makes grief via Kudzu and spliced plants (which should be endgame stuff) end the round faster.

The extreme proliferation of round start materials doesn't help matters either. Rather than have scientists and chemists work on stocking their own departments/Interacting with cargo to order stuff, we just chose to provide everything filled to the brim which just helps them reach late research stuff or chemicals faster. Which helps bring down the round faster as well, since sooner or later they get itchy and start to break stuff.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:20 am**

Kor wrote:>game is stressful and and things break down way faster than they can be repaired causing players to reset the round rather than stick it out
>we can make rounds longer by reverting QoL changes and making things more tedious and stressful

???

"qol changes" is so meaninglessly vague in this case that it could be literally anything though lol

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:26 am**

D&B wrote:I guess the mistake is that QoL is interchangeable with powercreep in some cases.

Faster and easier building and repairing is a QoL change that supports longer rounds.

Roundstart DNA Splice machine for botany just makes grief via Kudzu and spliced plants (which should be endgame stuff) end the round faster.

The extreme proliferation of round start materials doesn't help matters either. Rather than have scientists and chemists work on stocking their own departments/Interacting with cargo to order stuff, we just chose to provide everything filled to the brim which just helps them reach late research stuff or chemicals faster. Which helps bring down the round faster as well, since sooner or later they get itchy and start to break stuff.

Alright that is a fair clarification

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:54 am**

Less gamemodes and antags with round-ending features.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:37 am**

oranges wrote:
Lumbermancer wrote:You don't have to rebalance anything. You just need to remove explosives. Structural damage of the station is the reason of 80% of early shuttle calls, and I have data to back this up.
Well, where is it?

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:28 pm**

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Lumbermancer wrote:You don't have to rebalance anything. You just need to remove explosives. Structural damage of the station is the reason of 80% of early shuttle calls, and I have data to back this up.
>Remove structural damage
>This huge system and one of the biggest and coolest features in the game

Fuck no.

I agree with you on principle, but it's just ridiculous how easy is to blow shit up. Just yesterday I was playing HoS, and within 5-8 minutes into the round at least 2 maxcaps blew the station the fuck up. And I have changeling in cuffs, and I'm trying to gib him, killing him over and over (at least 4 times). So I go to crematory but it's gone. I go all the way around (on meta) to kitchen gibber, but it's all busted and unpowered. Then I die to vacuum damage, and ling laughs in my face as he regenerates for the 5th time. Ye, I know unrobust get good etc. , but the point is that explosives affect the whole round with little effort, and I think this is not benefiting roleplaying or paranoia in any way.

DemonFiren wrote:
oranges wrote:Well, where is it?

In the 100 rounds with early shuttle call, 80 was done because of structural damage, 10 because of grey tide and 10 because of clown. I have these numbers written down on a piece of paper with me.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:13 pm**

TribeOfBeavers wrote:You could try to add more station goals that are really hard to make/do but make the rewards really OP/fun. It would give people incentive to stay and try for it.

Giving random crew members goon-esque objectives to work on for discount greentext...

...Give departments strong endgame projects to work towards

I like these ideas. Maybe an overarching department goal, as well as randomized smaller goals for members within the department. Maybe even give assistants a "Get a stamped approval from x department head or members" to give assistants that aren't just using the job for tiding a purpose. I usually find things to do each round, but having a seed of an idea of what to strive for is very helpful, a good example of this is getting cooking ideas from your ingredient starter box, as they're themed.

This would allow for short term, medium term, and long term goals as well.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:02 pm**

Well this is just an idea but syndicate are double agents against NT right? If they reveal they are syndicate that blows the entire operation. Add a stealth or go the entire round undiscovered. Ie has never been in a brig area. Or make it so that they require the crew to believe theyre still loyal so they can continue to infiltrate NT storywise. Or have the station left with percent integrity for future syndicate agents to be deployed there. Perhaps even having a percent of surviving crew alive at round end to open up more living crew to be converted to the syndicate. Theres incentive to make rounds longer from antags and sometimes gate 1 or 2 tators per round behind that from getting their greentext. Gives a story/lore reason to not murderbone and get the round over as fast as possible. Promotes longer rounds on general. And may provide interesting gameplay situations.

Ie tator 1 has ensure the station is at 80% integrity when the crew leaves for future deployments.

While tator 2 has a murder and die glorious objective. He makes a maxcap and deadmans trigger. Goes around murderboning the crew then blows the station the fuck up. If he were to do it like that tator 1 would redtext. So for the sake of his objective, tator1 would be helping the crew so he can succeed.

Basically give some incentives for longer rounds and more fun.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:58 pm**

Lumbermancer wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:
oranges wrote:Well, where is it?
In the 100 rounds with early shuttle call, 80 was done because of structural damage, 10 because of grey tide and 10 because of clown. I have these numbers written down on a piece of paper with me.

I have a more recent revised version of the same data that spells out "you're gay and this is a shit idea"

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:25 pm**

That's just super rude.

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 pm**

Lumbermancer wrote:That's just super rude.

Stop replying to him he does not understand game design at all

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:37 pm**

Once an antag has completed their objective, they have a big incentive to end the round, so that they win. Should this be changed somehow?

Posted: **Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:28 pm**

yesterday terry had another couple of 4 hour rounds which if you're a fan of long rounds would have been great if you had only played there

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:29 pm**

Alipheese wrote:Ie tator 1 has ensure the station is at 80% integrity when the crew leaves for future deployments.

While tator 2 has a murder and die glorious objective. He makes a maxcap and deadmans trigger. Goes around murderboning the crew then blows the station the fuck up. If he were to do it like that tator 1 would redtext. So for the sake of his objective, tator1 would be helping the crew so he can succeed.

Basically give some incentives for longer rounds and more fun.

I think it would encourage different playstyles, but also force people into certain playstyles too, which could be a positive or a negative thing. I always play conservatively when antag. I still do my job, and I try not to be suspicious. I feel bad being reckless and killing random people. However, when it's an objective I feel less bad. However, forcing people to be one or the other may have it's problems too, as then the player has less freedom.

I think the "die a glorious death" or "escape on the shuttle" do create that sort of dynamic though. I've only ever went on killing sprees to get a glorious death.

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:06 pm**

1.Safety:
a.Yeah, bombs should be harder to make.
But still they could be not harder to make, but harder to use.
Now IRL there are interesting device. Laser, which igniting plasma flash at distance up to 30 m.IR spectometer investigates colour of this flash. And can remotely analyze air. So it can even search for explosives.So, maybe station should be equipped with remote chem sensors. Probably mounted. So security will be able to track down bomb users BEFORE something will happen.Still antags could find way to cheat sensors.
b.personal alarm. Small device to call ERT from med and/or sec.
c.convert curator to reporter/whatever. Give him access to survivallence/some other data sources So he must provide valuable information to crew. Often You will know, that now there is only half of station left when xeno will drag you to his nest along big holes in station.
d.Maybe you should give to scientist some wibbley-wobbley telescope, which helps to find space ruins, predict meteors/space carp, or even pirates/ninja.Possibly telescope could be somehow related to anomalous materials.
2.antags.
a. It was good idea to make them motivation to be less deadly. So they could use more stealth, than big bombs. For example, they've got limit to amount of frags. It is fairly simply avoidable, but still can help.
b. also greentext to end round can enlarge round if antag isn't too robust.
c.make it so kill of antag will not end round.
3.gameplay.
a.QOL -- Can you explain, what changes should be removed?
b.interaction. departments work shouldn't depend on each other in the way, when one desperately needed help of other, but can't offer anything.Like chem and botany.
Interaction between old RnD and miners was example of good interaction.

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:20 pm**

If you want longer rounds then reduce the number of traitors and changelings during those round types. Blood cult already leads to longer rounds and clock cult, nuke ops, and revs are already short rounds.

Ive had rounds where one traitor or changeling has reduced the sec staff by 50% in under 20 minutes with no chance of body recovery, not even mentioning the 2-3 other changelings and 4-5 other traitors, plus greytiders.

We dont need a full 1/5th of the crew being antagonists during traitor and traitor/ling. If antagonists were reduced to a more manageable level we might even see side antags like aliens, blobs and pirates a bit more often!

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:53 pm**

I still think that traitor + changeling rounds shouldn't exist. The changelings always end up with the traitor gear, making them even better at murderboning (which most of their powers revolve around).

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:36 pm**

The thing is that with antags it's not directly more antags=more chaos, but rather more antags=more chance of getting the one guy who wants to cause maximum chaos in the minimum time possible.

If there is nobody like that as a traitor during a round it usually lasts fairly long with no clear disruptons but instead a slow downwards spiral as the crew itself gets bored and takes over antag duty. Rounds are usually better with something to work against.

So you do want some chaotic influence over a round. The problem lies in the fact that some antag players are so fast and good at it that:
-A: it's very hard to stop them before it's too late
-B: the damage they cause overflows the definition of "spice" and goes into "why bother"
-C: they completely eclipse any other (antag or not) gimmick that requires time or a semblance of order on the station
To add onto that, since the most easy and effective tactics get more popular, they get repetitive and stale as everyone wants to try them out.

Which is why the general response to antags shutting rounds down too quickly is to try to nerf the most powerful tactics, rather than just reducing antags. It's all about hitting that sweet spot where you can potentially prevent antag-wrought chaos, you can fix the damage they cause, and there is still a timeframe where people with long-term gimmicks can play them out.

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:42 pm**

So, I think, that security should have more ways to discover antags shenanigans before it's too late.
But antags should have bacup--syndie bases.
So It can move strullge out of Hit-n-Run to more complex game with disabling security networks ,bribes and silent operations.

Posted: **Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:26 pm**

had a really fun round that was like 3 hours on Terry last night, man long rounds sure are fun, we got to experience all the late game content at a really good pace. i sure love how we already have really long rounds, you literally just have to click a different server on our homepage to access them instead of rebalancing the whole game!

Posted: **Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:43 am**

PKPenguin321 wrote:had a really fun round that was like 3 hours on Terry last night, man long rounds sure are fun, we got to experience all the late game content at a really good pace. i sure love how we already have really long rounds, you literally just have to click a different server on our homepage to access them instead of rebalancing the whole game!

Aw yeah, I can't wait for that delicious Free Lag due to ping!

Posted: **Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:45 am**

Hathkar wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:had a really fun round that was like 3 hours on Terry last night, man long rounds sure are fun, we got to experience all the late game content at a really good pace. i sure love how we already have really long rounds, you literally just have to click a different server on our homepage to access them instead of rebalancing the whole game!
Aw yeah, I can't wait for that delicious Free Lag due to ping!

t. never played on terry
im west coast US with 5 mb/s speeds at best and i had a very very very playable ping

/tg/Station 13

Enlarge your round

Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round

Re: Enlarge your round