/tg/Station 13

Was talking with MSO about if/how to add moths to the game other than just throwing another roundstart race on the pile, and he said

<MrStonedOne> a better but harder to properly pull off idea, would be to gate one or both behind some in game lock, ftl style, where you have to find a ruin and do some bullshit and might involve multiple ruins

Similar could be done with killing bosses (your kinetic accelerator gets a fancy skin) and so on

Would this form of persistence make people mad or do you think it'd be fun

Kor wrote:Was talking with MSO about if/how to add moths to the game other than just throwing another roundstart race on the pile, and he said

<MrStonedOne> a better but harder to properly pull off idea, would be to gate one or both behind some in game lock, ftl style, where you have to find a ruin and do some bullshit and might involve multiple ruins

Similar could be done with killing bosses (your kinetic accelerator gets a fancy skin) and so on

Would this form of persistence make people mad or do you think it'd be fun

Give me DOOM armor and DOOM shotgun for having killed every megafauna.

>would literally anything make people mad???

Do you even need to ask

Make a critical mass of people mad*

Kor wrote:Make a critical mass of people mad*

does the critical mass of people have to be people who play

anyways if it's harmless shit like side races, sure, why not

also you could add the magic dullahan guillotine and then make that an unlock with this system so i am forever in favor

actually offtopic but make it so if you do that your ckey is permanently locked to playing dullahans only and admins are unable to change that back

Cool as long as we don't have to worry about admins circumventing the whole system to help themselves or players cheat things out

I've never really been a fan of persistent stuff. I guess it would be okay though

honestly the curator persistence is more annoying than anything. i end up clicking the soapstone messages in combat and they're generally shit memes anyway. the display cases are largely ignored or every five rounds ill get an ahelp on how to open it. overall im not a fan of any of the persistence stuff so far.

Beards pissed people off enough and I still want them back. I do like the idea of achievement based things but ultimately there will be a quick how-to guide written up the first day to get it unless its some ungodly "kill 500 goliaths" nonsense.

Only if none get added to mining.
Jk, sounds cool.

It's a great idea but why squander the opportunty?

You have something that many of the worst players on the server could likely work hard to get. Why not tie it to something more interesting and positive than mining (although this doesn't mean some can't be tied to ruins). Find areas where you want to encourage certain behaviour and throw a reward at the end. Even if they do it once for the cosmetic, the little positive loop of "don't be a shitter, feel good for not being a shitter, wear a little thng that says "look I wasn't a shitter once"" might actually do some people some good.

It's early so I can't think of a specific now, but my ideas are so good I'm sure coders will be falling over themselves to implement it without any effort on my part

To not get critical mass of people,who got pissed off, you should rrvert trchwebs. Then you'll be able to put achirvements persistance model.

Stickymayhem wrote:It's a great idea but why squander the opportunty?

You have something that many of the worst players on the server could likely work hard to get. Why not tie it to something more interesting and positive than mining (although this doesn't mean some can't be tied to ruins). Find areas where you want to encourage certain behaviour and throw a reward at the end. Even if they do it once for the cosmetic, the little positive loop of "don't be a shitter, feel good for not being a shitter, wear a little thng that says "look I wasn't a shitter once"" might actually do some people some good.

It's early so I can't think of a specific now, but my ideas are so good I'm sure coders will be falling over themselves to implement it without any effort on my part

yeah i would hope that this isn't just a mining addition

it would be the easiest to come up with ideas for ("kill a megafauna" or something) but that would be kinda crappy if a bunch of work was put into it and all we had was stuff related to lavaland

captain sawrge wrote:Cool as long as we don't have to worry about admins circumventing the whole system to help themselves or players cheat things out

i think i touched on this but yes admins should either not have access to modify this stuff or it should be logged

Qbopper wrote:make it so if you do that your ckey is permanently locked to playing dullahans only and admins are unable to change that back

this is an excellent post

Selea wrote:To not get critical mass of people,who got pissed off, you should rrvert trchwebs. Then you'll be able to put achirvements persistance model.

You post with the frequency, irrelevance and poor grammar of a chinese adbot.

I think the beard was fun.

We could also add unlockables for post-round fun, like
do easy achievement -> get revolver post-round
do hard achievement -> get mech post-round

stuff like that
also maybe something exclusive for byond members

Kor wrote:Was talking with MSO about if/how to add moths to the game other than just throwing another roundstart race on the pile, and he said

<MrStonedOne> a better but harder to properly pull off idea, would be to gate one or both behind some in game lock, ftl style, where you have to find a ruin and do some bullshit and might involve multiple ruins

Similar could be done with killing bosses (your kinetic accelerator gets a fancy skin) and so on

Would this form of persistence make people mad or do you think it'd be fun

I'd say if we're doing persistence, security should get something. Something to encourage people to play security so we don't have 15 assistants and 3 security officers. I think that a little rank symbol or something would be cool, and the rank would just accumulate based upon the number of rounds you've played security. You'd only see it if you were part of security too. It wouldn't do anything, however it would give a means of respect for those who play security frequently.

We can repurpose away missions!

Some away missions can grant these, soul quests of sorts perhaps? Nothing something with murdering but puzzles or something that use rng.

Also maybe we could do additional stats tracking like how much healing a person did in a round and make positive things like that allow unlocks(ie: you healed others 100x more than you did damage to others).

Does no one remember '''''''cosmetic''''''' beards and what a disaster that turned out to be?

This sounds awesome, like what Goonstation does where if you unlock an achievement it can come with a cosmetic to change one of the items you currently possess into something different

Atlanta-Ned wrote:Does no one remember '''''''cosmetic''''''' beards and what a disaster that turned out to be?

I don't because I'm a newfag please remind me

Basically there were persistant beards that grew for each round you survived, eventually getting special effects like rainbows or flames. If you died or were shaved you had to start over.

People quickly started shaving/killing each other them, starting a bunch of dumb arguments, ahelps, and salt. Nobody wanted to deal with this so they were soon removed.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:Does no one remember '''''''cosmetic''''''' beards and what a disaster that turned out to be?

you can't shave someone else's skin

er

wait

i mean like

cosmetic skins

fuck

TribeOfBeavers wrote:Basically there were persistant beards that grew for each round you survived, eventually getting special effects like rainbows or flames. If you died or were shaved you had to start over.

People quickly started shaving/killing each other them, starting a bunch of dumb arguments, ahelps, and salt. Nobody wanted to deal with this so they were soon removed.

And people whined about them to a frankly absurd degree when admin events got them killed.

Beards were just a bad idea to begin with. Goonstation style cosmetic rewards are a good idea, I like the idea of adding ranks for officers that survive rounds, extra job names for more veteren jobs would be an easy and fun addition for playing and surviving as a job.

For sec officers it could be increased rank,the display of such capping at a certain point for officers (but still accumulating) and going higher for Warden and HoS. With full rounds survived being displayed in security or medical records.

For medical staff you can get specialty titles such as Cryogenicist, Surgeon, Nurse, or Paramedic.

For science staff you can get Xenobiologist, Toxins Researcher, or Research Scientist.

Any other ideas would be nice to add, it would give people flavor and bragging rights at roundstart, as well as adding a bit of roleplaying ability.

I think, that Lifeweb style system with chromosomes is better idea.

Dr_bee wrote:Beards were just a bad idea to begin with. Goonstation style cosmetic rewards are a good idea, I like the idea of adding ranks for officers that survive rounds, extra job names for more veteren jobs would be an easy and fun addition for playing and surviving as a job.

For sec officers it could be increased rank,the display of such capping at a certain point for officers (but still accumulating) and going higher for Warden and HoS. With full rounds survived being displayed in security or medical records.

For medical staff you can get specialty titles such as Cryogenicist, Surgeon, Nurse, or Paramedic.

For science staff you can get Xenobiologist, Toxins Researcher, or Research Scientist.

Any other ideas would be nice to add, it would give people flavor and bragging rights at roundstart, as well as adding a bit of roleplaying ability.

I like this. I'd say it would be nice if it didn't depend on much success. Security officers playing security instead of surviving would make people rage less, since it would still count. Trying to stay alive for a round discourages regular activity such as validhunting or risking their lives for other players which is counter productive. Imagine being a security officer, and you investigating a dead body gets you killed, you rage because you did your job, yet you got punished for it by dying, and no one will know you did your job next time you play security.

I'd say the variety of ideas you mention is super cool. Measuring time spent in certain areas could account for those titles. It would work so long as the blueprints stay the same.

Atlanta-Ned wrote:Does no one remember '''''''cosmetic''''''' beards and what a disaster that turned out to be?

You won't be able to erase other peoples unlocks in this case so I'm hoping there will be less angst about it.

Haha beards were never merged just testmerged :^)

After that was over, I thought of doing something similar except with hats or other clothing that level up as they are successfully brought to centcom while worn by a character, and gradually become more bombastic as they level up. This seems to be a better idea than beards because someone could steal your hat, and if they are the ones who bring it to centcom it's saved to their character instead, so your progress isn't lost, just stolen.

Kor wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote:Does no one remember '''''''cosmetic''''''' beards and what a disaster that turned out to be?

You won't be able to erase other peoples unlocks in this case so I'm hoping there will be less angst about it.

Kor wrote:

Atlanta-Ned wrote:Does no one remember '''''''cosmetic''''''' beards and what a disaster that turned out to be?

You won't be able to erase other peoples unlocks in this case so I'm hoping there will be less angst about it.

hugbox

This was an idea that was talked about in 2014: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Bones

Better late than never

people seem to be mostly in favor so what would be some cool unlocks

make it so you have to do something really absurd and long and grindy to get a grey jumpsuit as assistant

Qbopper wrote: make it so you have to do something really absurd and long and grindy to get a grey jumpsuit as assistant

Preform every unique suicide at least once?



I'd be in favour of unlockable cosmetic stuff. It'd be good to have some sort of goal to work towards across rounds.

They could work like the detective revolver/bartender shotgun do right now, so like nothing that changes inhand sprites for combat stuff. But something like unique beaker sprites for chemists or new engineer hardhats would be neat.

so moths but now with more pride and accomplishment

add actual ftl races that would be actually cool

If cosmetic unlocks are to be added, none of them should be based around 'surviving x amount of rounds in a row', since that goes against the concept of "dying is part of the game." It also lends itself to people bitching about their progress being lost because 'x killed me' and only lends to grudging for dumb reasons.

Just for the complete opposite of the above issue, there should be a milestone achievement for dying 100(0) times. Gives the option to enable a confetti popper with a 'yay!' sound effect when you die, similar to Halo's Grunt Birthday Party.
[youtube]QtEljxur6eI[/youtube]

Serious suggestion: We already have achievements, maybe more could be added and we could tie unlocks to them. Maybe add one for being a head of staff during a round when the station goal is completed.

Minor, mostly useless items that spawn at the start. The British flag cup is one such item. Was made originally for one of the best medics on station. It's just a cup, but it shows a dedication to the server.

Little department trinkets for people who play a lot of X department, survivor trinkets for people who make it out alive often, little wiggits for people who perform difficult feats (Kill all the syndicate and pirates at the wreckage site, steal the operative's nuke, kill every type of mega fauna in one round, etc, etc.)

They could be used as a means to determine who's an expert in their field, and who's just learning the ropes, and who has gone above and beyond the call of duty. A silver plated health analyzer for doctors, plasma dyed labcoat for scientists, bubblegum claw keychain for miners, etc, etc. Purely visual alterations, but something that lets you know at a glance you are dealing with a "professional"

And if the person doesn't like showing off, they can always discard the item and pick up a regular one, or just turn off the feature.

I think it will be cool as long as we have an achieve for having a bunch of non lathe flashlights in your inventory because I keep telling chaplains to collect like 20 flashlights before I answer their prayers and its super funny watching them scavenge for flashlights

a mEYEning scanner for killing legion (think eye of Cthulhu) when?

Being able to distinguish experienced players sounds cool

can we get an achievement for taking down every member of a nuke ops team with your bare hands pls thx
also killing an ash drake with a spear that would be cool

i have more gun sprites in my gallery than qbop has cheeto cumstains on his keyboard.

expect cosmetic guns if this is implemented

Slaughter 10 crewmembers in the process of ERP and gain the "Bulge" unlock.

I would prefer it if achievements were:

1. Preferably the majority were not antag based
2. To do with actions related to jobs/positions

Perhaps if somehow you could track how much a doctor has healed folk through medicine/sleeper/cryo.
How many walls or floors an engineer has built?
Etc. Etc.

Whatever we choose, if we choose something, will be abused no doubt by many. I frankly don't see how we can't make an unabusable automated system.

Rustledjimm wrote:Whatever we choose, if we choose something, will be abused no doubt by many. I frankly don't see how we can't make an unabusable automated system.

if someone is acting in bad faith (eg. beating someone up just to throw them into a sleeper, then repeating) just talk to/ban them

Qbopper wrote:

Rustledjimm wrote:Whatever we choose, if we choose something, will be abused no doubt by many. I frankly don't see how we can't make an unabusable automated system.

if someone is acting in bad faith (eg. beating someone up just to throw them into a sleeper, then repeating) just talk to/ban them

I believe the game keeps logs of where damage comes from. If you are trying to heal X damage via the sleeper, it doesn't count any damage you've dealt to the person. Also, have cosmetics be tied directly to the job. If you want the chef's special kitchen/butcher knife skin, you need to work as a chef, not just some assistant who's set up their autism achievement fortress in maint so they can just rush for dem skins.

Some minimum playtime should also be tied to the items. I'm thinking 30 or more. To show a dedication to the role, as well as your ability in it.

Kel-the-Oblivious wrote:

Qbopper wrote:

Rustledjimm wrote:Whatever we choose, if we choose something, will be abused no doubt by many. I frankly don't see how we can't make an unabusable automated system.

if someone is acting in bad faith (eg. beating someone up just to throw them into a sleeper, then repeating) just talk to/ban them

I believe the game keeps logs of where damage comes from. If you are trying to heal X damage via the sleeper, it doesn't count any damage you've dealt to the person. Also, have cosmetics be tied directly to the job. If you want the chef's special kitchen/butcher knife skin, you need to work as a chef, not just some assistant who's set up their autism achievement fortress in maint so they can just rush for dem skins.

Some minimum playtime should also be tied to the items. I'm thinking 30 or more. To show a dedication to the role, as well as your ability in it.

still not perfect but that does sound better

fucking assistants in maint making achievement_idle lmao

Qbopper wrote:

Kel-the-Oblivious wrote:

Qbopper wrote:

Rustledjimm wrote:Whatever we choose, if we choose something, will be abused no doubt by many. I frankly don't see how we can't make an unabusable automated system.

if someone is acting in bad faith (eg. beating someone up just to throw them into a sleeper, then repeating) just talk to/ban them

I believe the game keeps logs of where damage comes from. If you are trying to heal X damage via the sleeper, it doesn't count any damage you've dealt to the person. Also, have cosmetics be tied directly to the job. If you want the chef's special kitchen/butcher knife skin, you need to work as a chef, not just some assistant who's set up their autism achievement fortress in maint so they can just rush for dem skins.

Some minimum playtime should also be tied to the items. I'm thinking 30 or more. To show a dedication to the role, as well as your ability in it.

still not perfect but that does sound better

fucking assistants in maint making achievement_idle lmao

No items should exist for assistants, since they are the least productive member of the crew (mostly) and are supposed to be the learning role, not the fuck about and piss people off while getting your valids on role.

We could also just accept that people are going to game the system and rush for unlocks they want? Honestly I thought the whole point of having them be only cosmetic was so that we wouldn't have to obsess over balance. Obviously griefing people to get them as a non-antag should still be against the rules like it always is.

Wyzack wrote:We could also just accept that people are going to game the system and rush for unlocks they want? Honestly I thought the whole point of having them be only cosmetic was so that we wouldn't have to obsess over balance. Obviously griefing people to get them as a non-antag should still be against the rules like it always is.

I mean you'll never be able to fully stop people from abusing achievement systems, but adding simple checks for the lowest effort methods to farm them wouldn't be unreasonable imo