/tg/Station 13

Basically switch the permabrig and the individual cells. Similar to how goon station does it. This turns a boring experience of waiting 5 minutes for your brig timer to be up into a situation where you can role-play with other prisoners. Dont drop the soap!

This would also give the warden something to do, as well as turn perma into solitary confinement.

The main problem would be handling how timers work. this could possibly be solved by having the timer be set to your ID, which then releases you via pipe slide. If your timer isnt up the pipe slide just shoots you back into gen-pop.

This would also mean you would really want to protect your ID, so some assistant doesnt steal your 3 minute timer from you to get out early when the warden isnt watching.

Overall it would lead to a more interesting experience in the brig than the little 3x3 cells that currently exist.

i like this.

I like the idea, in theory, but realistically it's essentially using perma as the brig with the mechanics of the gulag. I think it invalidates those two a little, however, no one likes to be gulaged, and often people consider it a worse punishment than death. Perma isn't viewed as badly.

I think the current brig doesn't do much good, since yeah waiting 5 minutes is more annoying than anything. I think the idea of having both permanent criminals and new criminals in the same space is interesting and all, but then you might have someone killing people for their ID to try to escape. That on it's own would be an incentive though not to go to prison (like in the US justice system).

To review, I like the idea a lot, it invalidates other forms of punishment like the gulag and perma, but creates a new attitude toward imprisonment. Despite being on the fence, I give this a HELL YEAH lets do it.

How does the gulag teleporter work codewise? could it be easily repurposed to use a timer instead of a point system?

I am reading up on the mapping guide on the wiki but I would rather have that problem solved by someone competent before I even attempt to bumfuck my way into mapping.

I like it. If you go afk someone might steal your PDA, the truly awful players might try to murder other people making it easier to identify and ban them, and there are RP possibilities. Plus you could try things like framing someone so they go to prison, and then going to prison yourself to try and assassinate them.

Not gonna lie I really hate the teleporter's auto strip thing. I think it takes part of the skill out of being an officer: if you're dumb enough to leave stuff on the prisoner you deserve breakouts. This doesn't seem to be a bad idea though.

Telegulag is auto stripping because it wasn't meant to be infinite. My original plan envisioned a set of telepods for transporting prisoners in and out, each would go "occupied" when you sent someone down.

Dr_bee wrote:This would also give the warden something to do

Why am I the only one thinking Warden is the hardest sec job? From handling prisoners, throwing out random trespassers, being on the lookout for breaking and entering to updating records, coordinating the officers, checking out cameras - you are always busy.

I might make an attempt at mapping this on metastation. Here's my design: From left to right:
1. Far left brig cell is converted into two solitary cells with no windows to the outside.

2. Middle two brig cells are entirely deleted and turned into the security office. I won't be able to fit all the officer spawns in there so some will go in the area just outside the general pop brig cell. In the orange rectangle I was considering some airlocks but in hindsight thats probably a bad idea since it's another barrier to perma/gulag/solitary escapees.

3. Not sure what to do with the old holding cell. I was thinking about putting the four lockers that will be removed there + the microwave. It's too small to really fit anything else.

4. In the brown rectangle I'm deleting the airlocks there.

5. Finally the whole reason I'm doing this. The gen pop cell will be about 5x4 in actual moving space. Prisoner lockers will go on the left. The shooting range entry will be moved up one. I'll probably delete the lockers, consoles, microwave, and wall with air alarm leaving only the disposals unit sitting on the north wall. The consoles can probably stay but I'll delete them for now. Interrogation listening's entry will be moved to inside interrogation. The mulebot delivery place will go inside shooting range.

Misc: Sec protolathe will have to be moved. Any other stuff that gets in the way will need to be moved.

Codewise, here's what would need to happen:

1. Prisoner ID's. Officers will manually strip the prisoner over one of the five or six lockers (depends on space restrictions) outside the holding cell. They will then use a console to set the locker number the prisoner is assigned to and the time.

2. Entry: I dislike teleporters that automatically strip prisoners but one that just teleports them to a spot in the cell with all their stuff on them is acceptable. It could even auto equip the ID and start the ID's timer.

3. Exitting: I was thinking of using an airlock system. I'll make a diagram at some point but basically once the ID's timer is up, it gains access to the inner holding cell door. In between the inner and outer door there's a console to put your ID in, once the ID's in it then the outer door opens for a few seconds and the prisoner can walk out. Relatively secure but still leaves room for tomfoolery as one prisoner opens it and lets two in.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I think perma should still be escapable somehow though! I just want temp-brig to be MORE escapable then perma brig. That's weird how heavily guarded and secured a temporary brigging is compared to a permanent one.

If there was one thing that I liked about Ceres, it was the brig layout - the warden desk in the middle of the room, with 4 cells on either side. That might be something to look into.

The behaviors enabled by this (prison breaks and prison riots) both generally result in bans and it seems backwards to add a feature then ban anyone who inevitably takes advantage of it.

Keep perma as is, having perma solitary confinement with no break points sounds unfun.

At least make all the cells unified, and do that disposal ID chute thing. I think VR would be a plus compared to perma. It'd also make cell a lot more respected! They aren't just shoving you into a cell where you're forced to do nothing anymore. (Who want's to be punished for playing a video game anyways???)

Kor wrote:The behaviors enabled by this (prison breaks and prison riots) both generally result in bans and it seems backwards to add a feature then ban anyone who inevitably takes advantage of it.

If done by non-antags yeah. But this would mean that getting brigged as an antag would mean more roleplay options.

Might want to add more warden slots if we do this however...

Kor wrote:The behaviors enabled by this (prison breaks and prison riots) both generally result in bans and it seems backwards to add a feature then ban anyone who inevitably takes advantage of it.

I agree that if a feature enables bannable behavior it shouldn't be added, however with the escalation rules (maybe things have changed) I think it's a work around, or exceptions could be made while in prison. The objective as warden and otherwise would be to keep the prisoners alive and not rioting.

As far as layout, if you ask me, I think you have the right idea in moving the main prison to that side, it is more easily escapable, however like I said before gulag and perma seem completely unnecessary at this point. It would absolutely be necessary to have wall flashes and other stunning equipment available to hold down prison riots. The HoS office being there also doesn't really make sense. I understand this is preliminary though.

You are incredibly mistaken if you think wardens/security officers are going to go into a general pop style prison cell to stop a traitor killing a minor IC crime person, since doing so is just begging to get disarm spammed/mobbed by greyshits.

Besides, from a sec PoV a greyshit getting killed by a traitor for his ID and then the traitor getting tazed on his way out the pipe slide is a net gain, since you have one less DINDU NUFFIN dork in your cells.

This is a nice idea but all it's really going to result in is people viewing brig sentences as a death sentence and ending up in trouble with admins because they murdered the sec officer who was just trying to arrest them for a crime they did.

Arianya wrote:You are incredibly mistaken if you think wardens/security officers are going to go into a general pop style prison cell to stop a traitor killing a minor IC crime person, since doing so is just begging to get disarm spammed/mobbed by greyshits.

Pepper spray and flashes are vastly underutilized by security. Their stuns are as effective as a taser or stunbaton, but without the risk of being disarmed and stunned to death. I was saying wall flashes and maybe turrets would work just fine to stop a riot without endangering anyone. Utilizing Pax might be necessary to keep calm among the masses during the duration of their stay in prison.

Arianya wrote:This is a nice idea but all it's really going to result in is people viewing brig sentences as a death sentence and ending up in trouble with admins because they murdered the sec officer who was just trying to arrest them for a crime they did.

This is a very useful perspective. People may view it as badly as the gulag or perma, and would fight over doing their sentence. I think having turrets autoshoot anyone who has the wrong ID on might be a solution, and prisoners would need to find a work around to steal ID's to escape.

You could make it an insulated chamber. With maybe air tank ports to send in some n20. Or an internal smoke machine. That allows for any kind of smoke mixes. For example, pax and morphine. You gotta step your riot control game up!

N20 would be too unstable to exist and is useless for riot control

>n20
it's N-goddammit-MSO-add-subscript-and-superscript-O
it's not 20 nitrogens, though I'm certain some "energetic materials" scientists are cooking up shit just like that

Kor wrote:The behaviors enabled by this (prison breaks and prison riots) both generally result in bans and it seems backwards to add a feature then ban anyone who inevitably takes advantage of it.

I've had several of those (on both sides) and each time it was fun. I don't think anyone will actually get banned for it unless someone ends up dying. You're probably right but I'd like to try making it.

Arianya wrote:You are incredibly mistaken if you think wardens/security officers are going to go into a general pop style prison cell to stop a traitor killing a minor IC crime person, since doing so is just begging to get disarm spammed/mobbed by greyshits.

Besides, from a sec PoV a greyshit getting killed by a traitor for his ID and then the traitor getting tazed on his way out the pipe slide is a net gain, since you have one less DINDU NUFFIN dork in your cells.

This is a nice idea but all it's really going to result in is people viewing brig sentences as a death sentence and ending up in trouble with admins because they murdered the sec officer who was just trying to arrest them for a crime they did.

Let's go to the Olympics everyone. Over here we have Arianya for the long jump to conclusions!

Not sure how you jump from gen pop brig cell to death sentence but somehow that happened. I've put prisoners in the same cell before and the only time I see them fight each other is when they have a prior grudge (from that round). Obviously noone will want to step in there, but there will be a wall flasher.

edit: and if sec is doing their job properly, the prisoners will be stripped and the officers can use items that can't be stolen and used against security, for example: tear gas, flashbangs, pepper spray, flashes. Using those types of items should be standard procedure in an area with prisoners anyway. Why would you ever use stuff that can be used against you on unarmed prisoners with no protection against your weapons.

Let's trial it and see if it sucks

To be clear unless 2/3 headmins tell me "yeah prisoners murdering one another or officers would be great!" this will not be merged