/tg/Station 13

So the chef...who cares about him right? What if vending machine food didn't kill your hunger without eating so much you get sick? That way the chef becomes important and everybody has more fun.

>Someone who has literally never played on Badger/when the chef is indisposed.

Cipher3 wrote:>Someone who has literally never played on Badger/when the chef is indisposed.

What the hell is badger? Stop making up things and contribute.

stop being a dick

>25 five people on metastation
They're probably just spambots, who the hell is that desperate?

Anyway, different food should affect the speed with which you become hungry again, with junk food being ultimate worst. That's one way of doing it.

its hard to imagine people liking things you dont like i know

Anything to make the chef important is good. Maybe also increase hunger rate?

Fuck no, hunger is annoying as is. Its frequent theres no chef or the chef doesn't make food. Removing vending machines, nerfing snacks, or increasing hunger rate would only make things more annoying instead of more fun.

firecage wrote:Fuck no, hunger is annoying as is. Its frequent theres no chef or the chef doesn't make food. Removing vending machines, nerfing snacks, or increasing hunger rate would only make things more annoying instead of more fun.

I'm inclined to agree with this, at least as long as we only have one chef job slot.

How about instead of removing things/hurting the players, you make the chef's food worth eating. You know, FUN things.

Saegrimr wrote:How about instead of removing things/hurting the players, you make the chef's food worth eating. You know, FUN things.

Like how. Be more specific.

Well for example, make the Chef's food heal damage or give positive thoughts to the player character. Minor buffs.

Well the simple/lazy solution here would be to have less vending machines.

If someone is dedicated enough we could buff the chef's food too.

Chef's food healing would make medical basically irrelevant for all but the most serious of injuries.

See: Donuts.

Someone fucking nerf donuts already.

Maybe make chefs food have heating/cooling properties like what some drinks (Ie coffee) do.

paprika wrote:Chef's food healing would make medical basically irrelevant for all but the most serious of injuries.

See: Donuts.

Someone fucking nerf donuts already.

Nobody uses them though. Ignorance is the best defense of the status quo.

Food healing is bad. Give more suggestions to buffing food.

The only good solution is making junk food not viable to stop hunger. If there's no Chef, hire one. HoP exists for a reason. Not to mention you can climb the table to cook yourself some food if you really need it.

'beneficial effects' does just have to be healing (although having particular foods have particular healing chems in them, like bicard/kelo, similar to certain plants would be neat), they can be all sorts of shit. We obviously have cooling/warming products, you could have small amounts of hyperzine/synapzine/drugs, or whatever.

Also somewhat related, someone needs to port the NT chem changes/additions. They're great.
Also mildly related, there needs to be a chem that makes you do a bit more damage with melee/thrown attacks, with some side effects of using it too much.
ALSO even more mildly related, why does the silencer drink not actually act as a (dilluted) mute toxin? Shit would be great, and it's not like you can pump it out anyway.

Those things belong in chemistry. Same reason food shouldn't heal. Food should be about stopping hunger, and prevent/cure diseases.

Have you played botany? Deus alone has bicard, hyper and synaps in it.
I'm not saying you make a burger and it magically give you X chemical. I'm saying specific ingrediens give their resultant foods certain chems, which is what already happens, I'm just suggesting it could be expanded. Like that wing wang soup though, which is relatively rare/difficult to make, could have something neat in it (or acid) for example.

Scott wrote:Those things belong in chemistry. Same reason food shouldn't heal. Food should be about stopping hunger, and prevent/cure diseases.

Giving the chef a purpose is going to require either butting into another department's territory or adding new problems that the chef's food will solve. The argument being made is that adding a problem like "you can't get by on junk food" would just amount to tedium.

As someone that grinds up syndiecakes to extract the doctors delight, I support food chems. When chemistry is a bunch of unrobust shits (always), one should be able to break bad the old fashioned way (cooking!). On a more related note, nerf vending machines, but dont touch my syndiecakes and robust cofee!

There's a lot of white knighting for those 4noraisins in this thread that is ignoring the cause and effect inherent to the problem. People don't play chef because its not rewarding. You're not needed. You can turn out all the best and most complicated foods you and and nobody will probably give a shit because they can just stuff their faces with beef jerky and call it a meal. Frankly, I'd remove all of the nutriment valuable contents from the vending machines and leave nothing but candy bars and chips behind. As has been said, if you don't want to go slow from not eating, you go to the chef and you eat. The chef (and botany) need a reason for being and that reason shouldn't be "to fill space." Give chefs a reason to make food and a semi-meaningful role again and you'll see more chefs and you'll see those chefs producing food. People like to see their work validated and right now, the chef doesn't get that.

That's something else I caught from reading that tropes page talking about a lot of things that are or were on Goonstation. Their chefs and bartenders are equipped with full chemistry dispensers (probably with smaller power allowances or something for the sake of balance.) Yeah yeah I know "muh interdepartmental cooperation" but there's something odd about the chef needing to go down and bargin with medbay for the things he needs to make soy sauce or whatever. The same thing extends to the barkeep having to put orders on hold while he goes to beg the chem shed for the last ingredient for a drink.

I don't really have much sympathy for replacing 1 1/2 totally viable jobs with vending machines. Imagine the backlash if we replaced cargo with a series of vending machines and a public autolathe.

#FuckVendingMachines

JStheguy wrote:Maybe make chefs food have heating/cooling properties like what some drinks (Ie coffee) do.

An enchilada with a high potency chili is capable of killing somebody inside of a rigsuit.

With table climbing and kitchen lockers not being locked not having chef is a non-issue.

I still like the idea that junk food should satisfy your needs quickly, but then you would get hungry a lot faster.

If you want to pursue that route, make it that junk food will furfill your nutriment requirements but it will rapidly make you more hungry again.

I'm not so sure on this idea though, it will suddenly make the Chef essentially the most important job on the station, not to mention a bomb or two would knock out the kitchen and starve out the station. Also we would have to examine off station antagonists and their access to food. Such as giving Nuke Ops a ration pack and Wizard some more starting food that is of good quality.

Donuts are fine since they are usually only found in Security or the Bridge and are meant for Security Officers to heal a minor amount of damage and fur fill their food requirements.

Can someone tell us how long it takes from round start to get to red hunger? I doubt 80% of sybil rounds last long enough for hunger to affect anyone.

+1 for removing snack vending machines. If there is no Chef, then just climb over the table and make your own food. Or, god forbid, the HoP can do his job for once and hire a damn Chef.

Hell, id love it if the Chef/Botany jobs were merged into one job with 2-3 slots. Change the kitchen/botany area into a little biosphere with a freezer area containing kitchen materials, a kitchen area with microwaves and a serving table(same as the current kitchen) then a garden area in the back with hydro trays and a cows/chickens for milk/eggs.

As for buffing food, rather than giving food buffs, how about just changing the nutriment mechanic? Have different levels of nutriment. Smaller meals and snacks have very thin nutriment that gives a temporary boost, but then causes hunger to drain faster. Larger meals would have very strong nutriment that would keep you fed for a long time. Something like that.

Again, this change will change the Chef from a relaxed civilian job into the single most important job on the station, this also includes the Botanists to an extent. I just want to make sure you all understand your going to place a massive amount of responsibility onto the Chef.

Which making food on remote space station is?

Adding more cargo crates with donk pockets and shit would be done

There's garden in the open

Microwave circuit somewhere

Anything is better than 2 packs of 4noraisins per round tops

Admittedly I'd like to see some better cooking system.

Steelpoint wrote:Again, this change will change the Chef from a relaxed civilian job into the single most important job on the station, this also includes the Botanists to an extent. I just want to make sure you all understand your going to place a massive amount of responsibility onto the Chef.

No it will not. Any player can just jump into the kitchen and make their own food. Hell, a smart Chef could even turn his kitchen into a self-serve area and open it up to the rest of the station, then just be the guy who supplies ingredients.

Chef is so damn easy to play. Even if there were no snack machines it would still be easy. Literally can just grow potatoes and make space fries all day if he wanted.

Then what's the point of doing this if all your changing is making people go to vending machines to get food versus going to the kitchen to get food. The end result is either the Chef having more responsibility placed on their shoulders or a more drawn out process of getting your own food as you have to cook it.

Precisely so people go to chef for food.

Steelpoint wrote:Then what's the point of doing this if all your changing is making people go to vending machines to get food versus going to the kitchen to get food. The end result is either the Chef having more responsibility placed on their shoulders or a more drawn out process of getting your own food as you have to cook it.

As opposed to what we have now where spessmans stuff their faces with raisins while walking past a chef counter covered in food. The relative ease of cheffery vs any other job on the station isn't changing by cutting down on automated competition and I don't see why there's a push to relegate the chef/bartender to the same bin as the librarian that's "relaxed by being functionally useless." You're on a space ship and being on a ship in space means you've gotta eat. That should be a major part of your experience living in space. Eating.

As long as people don't complain about the odd or shitty food I make currently. Giving food certain effects seems nice, but it can limit what the chef wants to do. I don't want people hopping the tabling (and getting crushed) because I won't make magical healing bread.

If you really want people to eat your food.

Screwdriver > Crowbar that vending machine and steal the board. Now they HAVE to come to you for food.

You better fucking hope you have food though or you'll get a lynch mob instead.

Saegrimr wrote:If you really want people to eat your food.

Screwdriver > Crowbar that vending machine and steal the board. Now they HAVE to come to you for food.

You better fucking hope you have food though or you'll get a lynch mob instead.

Or they go to one of the other 6 vending machines on the station.

cedarbridge wrote:Or they go to one of the other 6 vending machines on the station.

Theres, what. Two in the central ring, Two at arrivals, one outside of the brig, and one in engineering beyond an airlock requiring an ID? Theres coffee in the same places, bar, and library. Soda machines and cigarettes all elsewhere.
Even if you ignore the engineering one because its nice to not have to fumble with hardsuit helmets and masks just to shove raisins in your gob so you aren't ridiculously slow.

5 machines, 5 boards into your internals box and then disposal that fucker or just hide it in your cold room.

Saegrimr wrote:

cedarbridge wrote:Or they go to one of the other 6 vending machines on the station.

Theres, what. Two in the central ring, Two at arrivals, one outside of the brig, and one in engineering beyond an airlock requiring an ID? Theres coffee in the same places, bar, and library. Soda machines and cigarettes all elsewhere.
Even if you ignore the engineering one because its nice to not have to fumble with hardsuit helmets and masks just to shove raisins in your gob so you aren't ridiculously slow.

5 machines, 5 boards into your internals box and then disposal that fucker or just hide it in your cold room.

And a whole station that's now pissed off because there's no vending machines to eat from and no food on the chef's counter because he ran off to decon the vending machines. Seems like the better plan is to just get rid of the vending machines that are stealing ar jerbs.

To promote eating food from the chef, we need to make player's hunger more visible. Currently, people only ever think about getting food when they see the yellow hunger icon. We need more detailed hunger level icons so there's always a hunger icon on screen: "TooMuch!", "full", "75%", "50%", "25%", "empty", "starving!" . Each of these levels with a specific speed bonus/malus. The lowest speed would still be equal to the current red hunger icon speed and highest speed just barely above the normal current speed. This technically doesn't make much of a difference ingame but it makes sure players keep hunger on their mind. They will no longer think about food in binary terms (fed/yellow hunger icon).

Add to that a system in which junk food can never get you above 75% (maybe by making a healthy nutrient and junk nutrient reagents) (so you never get the highest speed bonus w/o healthy food) and boosts the rate at which your hunger level drops for a while.
And we can have the players start with a hunger level of 75% or 50%.

This way people can still use the vending machines if necessary but a trip to the kitchen is always the better option.

phil235 wrote:To promote eating food from the chef, we need to make player's hunger more visible. Currently, people only ever think about getting food when they see the yellow hunger icon. We need more detailed hunger level icons so there's always a hunger icon on screen: "TooMuch!", "full", "75%", "50%", "25%", "empty", "starving!" . Each of these levels with a specific speed bonus/malus. The lowest speed would still be equal to the current red hunger icon speed and highest speed just barely above the normal current speed. This technically doesn't make much of a difference ingame but it makes sure players keep hunger on their mind.

Add to that a system in which junk food can never get you above 75% (maybe by making a healthy nutrient and junk nutrient reagents) (so you never get the highest speed bonus w/o healthy food) and boosts the rate at which your hunger level drops for a while.
And we can have the players start with a hunger level of 75% or 50%.

This way people can still use the vending machines if necessary but a trip to the kitchen is always the better option.

While we're at it we can add a protein reagent so spessmens can sit around flexing at eachother and miring their gains.

ThatSlyFox wrote:Can someone tell us how long it takes from round start to get to red hunger? I doubt 80% of sybil rounds last long enough for hunger to affect anyone.

From round start, if you don't move at all, it takes roughly 50 mins to reach yellow and 85 mins to reach red.
If you run around NONSTOP with hyperzine to boost your speed, you reach yellow in 12 minutes and red in 20mins.

This doesn't take into account calories lost to the cold and other specific calory consuming processes.

Just curious: Do you know if wearing hardsuits and the like affect it? I could swear I've gotten hungry faster while wearing one as a engineer, but I've also been moving around while wearing it.

Saegrimr wrote:If you really want people to eat your food.

Screwdriver > Crowbar that vending machine and steal the board. Now they HAVE to come to you for food.

You better fucking hope you have food though or you'll get a lynch mob instead.

Pretty sure it drops all the food on the ground, which is then a pain in the ass to collect.

You could use a wrench and hide all the vending machines in your cold storage room.

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Pretty sure it drops all the food on the ground, which is then a pain in the ass to collect.

Currently it drops refill canisters not food. the only way to drop food is to shoot the vending machine afaik.

I like phil's suggestion and would still like to nerf severely vending machine food.

Vending machines have always been a disappointing mechanic.

Chef wouldn't become vitally important if vending machines were all removed. It's soil plots and hydro trays which become important. Raw vegetables have quite a bit of nutrient. And last I checked (which was a while ago) there were plenty of places to grow things. A single dedicated botanist can easily keep up with station hunger. Two or three botanists will probably have enough nutrient for the entire round within 5 minutes.

If botany derps out and nobody wants to break in? The kitchen still spawns with quite a bit of eggs, soymilk, milk, flour, and a meat source.

If the botanists and chef all fail, cargo can order cheap food crates (and even make soil plots from mined sand).

If botany, the chef, and cargo all fail, isn't there still a public garden? I haven't played in a while.

All it really takes is one person to produce enough food. If nobody on the entire station is willing to do that, then people deserve to walk slow after half an hour...

Rolan7 wrote:All it really takes is one person to produce enough food. If nobody on the entire station is willing to do that, then people deserve to walk slow after half an hour...

This, really. If you can't be bothered to eat anything but raisins, you kinda deserve the slow speed for not taking care of yourself on even a basic level. This is really akin to "oh god why am I dying due to lack of air? You mean I have to put this mask AND tank on? Fuck that. Too much effort."

Hasnt anyone in this thread really thought about the kitchen properly a better way would be for letting the chef to refill vending machines with all of the food that the chef can make.

Seriously the problem isnt that vending machines are detracting from the chef they are just making a mechanic more depressed because you can eat something and be fine in just a few seconds after.

Letting the chef refill vendors with prepared foods would solve this entire thing and create a possible dynamic for a traitor chef to poison one or two foods and blame it on a assistant asked to refill the vendor.