/tg/Station 13

So, we can make ghetto shotguns, but while nearly all the parts are possible to obtain ( rifle stock + atmos pipe and package wrapper to connect this all) , the modular reciever is printed in protholathe from SILVER and it needs materials 5 + combat 5 to be done in science, this makes ghetto shotgun hightechasfuck.

May be modular reciever should be made in hacked autholathe from metal, or crafted on table from plasteel, so obtaining selfmade shotgun requires less then 20 minutes of game time ( Its easier to robust some officer in maint for his gun now)

Yeah, at that point it's literally a scavenger hunt through a lot of places you don't have access to to get a 'ghetto' weapon...

Like, if you need atmos access, botany competence, and science access to make a weapon, it should be BETTER than one you can make by strapping a glass shard to a rod.

Raven776 wrote:Yeah, at that point it's literally a scavenger hunt through a lot of places you don't have access to to get a 'ghetto' weapon...

Like, if you need atmos access, botany competence, and science access to make a weapon, it should be BETTER than one you can make by strapping a glass shard to a rod.

I think the atmos and botany aspects of the shotgun are fine. There's a public garden that starts with towercap seeds, and you can just take a wrench to any section of pipe in maint for the barrel- you don't actually need atmos access.

I am in favor of some sort of change to the modular receiver, but I worry that if you move it to the lathe, guncargo would rise again.

Maybe spawning some receivers in tech storage by default or something? Make it so you don't have to rely on just the protolathe.

You don't even need to touch botany.

Just go deconstruct some of the wooden objects around the station. Theres plenty for like 10 shotguns.

The trigger mechanism should be an igniter attached to a wire.

Raven776 wrote:Yeah, at that point it's literally a scavenger hunt through a lot of places you don't have access to to get a 'ghetto' weapon...

They aren't ghetto weapons, they're improvised, aka strapping a bunch of random shit to the modular reciever.

In the future, the reciever will give access to other guns by using different combinations of parts.

Not having access to some of the parts by default means it bars science from making weapons that they don't need access for every single round and being gunresearch which is awful

They exist to test shotgun shells, nothing more, and they don't spawn in lockboxes, which means you have a higher chance of getting them than a laser cannon honestly. The captain is less likely to give you access/unlock your cases than an atmos tech is likely to give you pipes, so quit yer bitching.

qwert wrote:So, we can make ghetto shotguns, but while nearly all the parts are possible to obtain ( rifle stock + atmos pipe and package wrapper to connect this all) , the modular reciever is printed in protholathe from SILVER and it needs materials 5 + combat 5 to be done in science, this makes ghetto shotgun hightechasfuck.

May be modular reciever should be made in hacked autholathe from metal, or crafted on table from plasteel, so obtaining selfmade shotgun requires less then 20 minutes of game time ( Its easier to robust some officer in maint for his gun now)

On the one hand, I'm probably the last person to get hype about the idea of more assistants running the hallways with "ghetto" firearms. I'm already kinda unimpressed by the number of spears and stun prods and don't see how adding shotguns to that really improves the experience. On the other hand, requiring silver and weapons 5/Mats 5 for a part to a (comparatively) crappy shotgun is pretty silly. The only reason a shotgun like that would even be worth it is if RnD made and loaded up a tech pulse/meteor/dragonsbreath shell. And even then the value is negligable compared to the 20+ minutes of RnD work required.

Pulse slugs are relatively easy to mass produce once you get the tech and they're basically all access and fucking mega damage if used properly. Don't even get me started on meteor shot. Tech shells were completely useless before these shotguns, and now they're... slightly less useless. They're very much a robust niche thing for science to research into, but weapons research for science shouldn't be LOL PRINT OFF GUNS EMAG LOCKBOX PLS GIVE ARMORY ACCESS!!, it should be careful, complex construction that takes effort. Because guns are fucking deadly in the right hands, no matter what. A low-caliber zipgun and a pneumatic launcher variant for the modular reciever is in the works, just be patient.

paprika wrote:Pulse slugs are relatively easy to mass produce once you get the tech and they're basically all access and fucking mega damage if used properly. Don't even get me started on meteor shot. Tech shells were completely useless before these shotguns, and now they're... slightly less useless. They're very much a robust niche thing for science to research into, but weapons research for science shouldn't be LOL PRINT OFF GUNS EMAG LOCKBOX PLS GIVE ARMORY ACCESS!!, it should be careful, complex construction that takes effort. Because guns are fucking deadly in the right hands, no matter what. A low-caliber zipgun and a pneumatic launcher variant for the modular reciever is in the works, just be patient.

Except tech shells aren't the issue here at all. Anyone with access to tech shells already has access to the protolathe and the receiver to make this shotgun.

No the modular reciever and the shotgun were made specifically so science could actually use the tech shells, nothing more, they aren't ghetto grey tide weapons or guncargo enablers.

I have a PR ready to put up that makes the receiver printable from a hacked autolathe instead, but I'm not sure if that would classify as a feature or not, nor if that would make it imbalanced.

On a related note, I do agree that the receiver is currently too hard to get. It's currently easier to order shotguns from cargo or steal the Bartender's double-barreled than to make an improvised one. If the receiver is that hard to get, I think it should be stronger than one shell at a time.

Xhuis wrote:I have a PR ready to put up that makes the receiver printable from a hacked autolathe instead, but I'm not sure if that would classify as a feature or not, nor if that would make it imbalanced.

On a related note, I do agree that the receiver is currently too hard to get. It's currently easier to order shotguns from cargo or steal the Bartender's double-barreled than to make an improvised one. If the receiver is that hard to get, I think it should be stronger than one shell at a time.

No, it shouldn't. Because the difference is, you don't need to spend cargo's resources, only your own, and you don't need to commit a crime of stealing the bartender's shotgun.

I was even going to put the barrel and receiver in the autolathe but the protolathe suggestion makes more sense. Also yes, it would be a feature, and also very likely immediately rejected because guncargo is shit and the shotgun is a research item, not a cargo one.

Violaceus wrote:So why use atmos pipe instead of proffesional barrel printed by protolathe?

Because it's improvised. How many times do I have to explain this. The modular receiver is magical future tech in which you can screw random shit onto it and use it as a gun. An atmos pipe and wooden stock? You got a break action single-shell shotgun.

Xhuis wrote:I have a PR ready to put up that makes the receiver printable from a hacked autolathe instead, but I'm not sure if that would classify as a feature or not, nor if that would make it imbalanced.

On a related note, I do agree that the receiver is currently too hard to get. It's currently easier to order shotguns from cargo or steal the Bartender's double-barreled than to make an improvised one. If the receiver is that hard to get, I think it should be stronger than one shell at a time.

I don't see any reason to make these things easy enough to make to replace the already too prolific stunprods/spears with shotguns.

The Problem with this is that you need to use COMBAT SHOTGUNS to get the incredibly inferior Improvised Shotgun.

Wizardjenkins66 wrote:The Problem with this is that you need to use COMBAT SHOTGUNS to get the incredibly inferior Improvised Shotgun.

Oops!

paprika wrote:No the modular reciever and the shotgun were made specifically so science could actually use the tech shells, nothing more, they aren't ghetto grey tide weapons or guncargo enablers.

If that's the intention than I understand why the reciever is relatively rare. I was under the impression the shotgun was added as an alternative to the stunprod or spear or the like, but if it's intended for scientists than it's perfectly reasonable to have the reciever only produced by RnD. I have one question, though- when I last made an improvised shotgun, it started with a shotgun shell loaded when I crafted it. Is that intended or a bug?

Unfortunate carry over bug, guns don't really start empty because that's the way it's always been. I'll likely fix it in the future since I'm planning on expanding gun research.

whodaloo wrote:

paprika wrote:No the modular reciever and the shotgun were made specifically so science could actually use the tech shells, nothing more, they aren't ghetto grey tide weapons or guncargo enablers.

If that's the intention than I understand why the reciever is relatively rare. I was under the impression the shotgun was added as an alternative to the stunprod or spear or the like, but if it's intended for scientists than it's perfectly reasonable to have the reciever only produced by RnD. I have one question, though- when I last made an improvised shotgun, it started with a shotgun shell loaded when I crafted it. Is that intended or a bug?

Probably intended. It starts with an improvised shell in the chamber, which only does 5 damage per pellet.

If it gets too easy to make those modular receivers, goodbye maint pipes.

Although I guess that'll give me a good reason to overpressure distro and then keep the waste line cycling cold CO2.

Saegrimr wrote:If it gets too easy to make those modular receivers, goodbye maint pipes.

Although I guess that'll give me a good reason to overpressure distro and then keep the waste line cycling cold CO2.

In your opinion, what is "too easy"?

Xhuis wrote:

Saegrimr wrote:If it gets too easy to make those modular receivers, goodbye maint pipes.

Although I guess that'll give me a good reason to overpressure distro and then keep the waste line cycling cold CO2.

In your opinion, what is "too easy"?

I'd wager "any idiot with an autolathe can make one" is probably too easy.

The improvised shotgun would be basically useless for any department but research anyway, tech shells are the only thing that make it decent when much better weapons exist that cargo can make. The idea is a one, powerful, and calculated shot weapon that rev/traitor/simply well-armed lategame scientists can use to be SCIENCE AS FUCK on people, think macgyver!

paprika wrote:The improvised shotgun would be basically useless for any department but research anyway, tech shells are the only thing that make it decent when much better weapons exist that cargo can make. The idea is a one, powerful, and calculated shot weapon that rev/traitor/simply well-armed lategame scientists can use to be SCIENCE AS FUCK on people, think macgyver!

Buckshot and Slugs can both be made at an autolathe.

Huh the chain of command is combat 5.

Neat.

You can get combat five with cheap ass durand boards anyway.

When I was thinking of it as an improvised weapon, it didn't make much sense...

But a science specific weapon used in tandem with tech shells? Seems pretty alright...

I still don't like using atmos pipes for it, though. Tearing out pipes in maint is awful behavior.

Raven776 wrote:When I was thinking of it as an improvised weapon, it didn't make much sense...

But a science specific weapon used in tandem with tech shells? Seems pretty alright...

I still don't like using atmos pipes for it, though. Tearing out pipes in maint is awful behavior.

If you're really that against it you could just use a pipe from the testing lab loop. Lord knows there's redundant piping there.

whodaloo wrote:

Raven776 wrote:When I was thinking of it as an improvised weapon, it didn't make much sense...

But a science specific weapon used in tandem with tech shells? Seems pretty alright...

I still don't like using atmos pipes for it, though. Tearing out pipes in maint is awful behavior.

If you're really that against it you could just use a pipe from the testing lab loop. Lord knows there's redundant piping there.

There are already extra pipes in the locker in the testing lab too.

All of my doubts are removed. Modular receiver's a pretty decent idea, and the further additions by Pap look to be pretty amusing too.

Violaceus wrote:If this shotgun is supposed to be high tech equipment for science, why there is such odd way of constructing it?

Everyone else just prints completely from protolathe.

Yes, and I'm trying to fucking remove the 'LOL DECONSTRUCT THINGS AND PRINT GUNS' part of science gun research because it's terribad, scientists should be firing pulse rifle slugs through atmospherics pipes goddamnit. A scavenger hunt for a gun that you don't need access for because it takes more effort is more fun than epic emag lockboxes or steal access for free stun tasers!

Eventually the 'stick random shit to the modular reciever' stuff will be phased out as well in favor of a more interesting modular-based gun system like baystation/vg (i think?) had, where you build different parts and rearrange them differently to form different types of guns in unique combinations but that is maximum feature and a long way off.

TLDR printing guns in lockboxes sucks and doesn't make any real sense

I'm not oppossed to a ghetto (lol) modular reciever that works for a single shot only

oranges wrote:I'm not oppossed to a ghetto (lol) modular reciever that works for a single shot only

Only if it explodes in your hand when fired.