/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Losing the robo console's ability to blow borgs and having the ions apply slow over stun would be a good start to balancing out the damage slowdown. A Malf should retain the ability to blow a borg, since this is often their only option to prevent an MMI that knows the AI's status from falling into crew hands (and there are several other key features tied to the robo console), but I won't shed a tear if the crew loses the ability to blow borgs up.

I'm still not really sure what matchup the borgs have where they come out decidedly favorable without having a heavy numbers advantage. I typed out a whole long post, but the TL;DR is that there are so many options that currently exist to stop borgs from impacting revs/a traitor/security/whatever that it seems odd to me this really needs to be pushed forward. It is really that hard to build a new robo console from any of the three circuit imprinters (or the spare board in tool storage)? Is it really that hard to win a melee fight against a borg where you can stun-lock it with one hit using an item easily available from abandoned robotics?

Borgs don’t need a buff and they don’t need a nerf. They are fine as is IMO. Their strengths are powerful and their weakness are devastating to them. If you can’t kill a borg even without the slowdown then you are a disgrace to the entirety of the human race. You could kill a cyborg with soda cans filled with liquid metal and uranium. Literally available to pretty much everyone. Put on a welding mask and grab a flash from the robotics in meta maint if you don’t have a protolathe or blender. Having problems with their self heal? Use a welder to attack them. It takes like 10 seconds to find a welding torch and deals burn damage which is more difficult to heal.

Of course cyborgs aren’t easy to kill if you just try hitting them with a fire extinguisher. Put in the 5 minutes of effort it takes to be able to stomp them. Anyone in medical can make 600u EMP bombs with bluespace beakers and 15 uranium + 15 metal. Covers more than your screen. If you have all access just blow them up with the robotics console. There are 5 boards on meta - 1 in the RD office already built, 1 in the engineering tech secure storage, 1 in the engineering circuit printer, and 2 in science’s circuit imrptiners, in RnD and robotics. Still not enough? Just deconstruct the chargers. It’s one of their sources of self healing when fully charged. You want to go any further, destroy all the welding tanks and now they can’t heal themselves.

Overall git gud and stop trying to make “i ded” cyborg nerfs

I will start working on a PR that
1) gives damage slowdown
2) removes blow (and possibly lock) on robotics console, and makes it more of a monitoring device.

when I get back to uni, should be ready in a few days.

4dplanner wrote:I will start working on a PR that
1) gives damage slowdown
2) removes blow (and possibly lock) on robotics console, and makes it more of a monitoring device.

when I get back to uni, should be ready in a few days.

Make lock AI-only so it can stop awful borgs but the crew can't use it

somerandomguy wrote:

4dplanner wrote:I will start working on a PR that
1) gives damage slowdown
2) removes blow (and possibly lock) on robotics console, and makes it more of a monitoring device.

when I get back to uni, should be ready in a few days.

Make lock AI-only so it can stop awful borgs but the crew can't use it

[malfs condescendingly]

4dplanner wrote:I will start working on a PR that
1) gives damage slowdown
2) removes blow (and possibly lock) on robotics console, and makes it more of a monitoring device.

Just split it into two separate PRs so that you don't have one single PR that devolves into 200 shitposts

Denton wrote:

4dplanner wrote:I will start working on a PR that
1) gives damage slowdown
2) removes blow (and possibly lock) on robotics console, and makes it more of a monitoring device.

Just split it into two separate PRs so that you don't have one single PR that devolves into 200 shitposts

Two PRs with 200 shitposts each isn't much better

Denton wrote:

4dplanner wrote:I will start working on a PR that
1) gives damage slowdown
2) removes blow (and possibly lock) on robotics console, and makes it more of a monitoring device.

Just split it into two separate PRs so that you don't have one single PR that devolves into 200 shitposts

This, and maybe keep lock available to the crew but have it wear off over the course of a minute or two (maybe the same amount of time as resisting off handcuffs).

If you add damage slowdown, can you give the chargers, at least a little, bit of healing provided to cyborgs? Non-engie borgs often walk around with constant dents in them due to crew apathy towards healing them or providing them a self-heal.

And I mean at the base level. I know upgraded chargers heal but you'll rarely see people upgrade them.

Splitting the PR in two is going to result in several weeks of silicons being in a terrible place as the nerf PR gets rushed through but the buff PR idles. We all know it's going to happen.

Lockdown is an actual decent tool against rogue borgs, since it specifically incentivizes capture and rebuilding a borg (IE keeping them in the round) over just validhunting them. I have also had a few round where a particular borg was being a shitter and so I locked them down to desync them from the AI and give them more restrictive laws, which is also cool. I'd rather see anti-borg stuns brought down somewhat (flashes and ions), along side the borg detonation button gone.

Restrict detonating the Cyborgs to either Red Alert or needing to swipe two or three command level ID cards to activate the function, so it cannot be done unilaterally (or you need to steal a few extra ID cards first).

Locking down Cyborgs should always be a option. Perhaps allow Emagged/Hacked Cyborgs the ability to 'resist' out of being locked down via a counter hack that takes two minutes, accomplishing this should resist the cyborg from further lockdown attempts.

The point in removing borg detonations is that borgs with damage slowdown will not be so powerful that the crew needs the ability to just suddenly end a borg's round from any distance with no warning. Borg slowdown is a very serious nerf, and we're talking about buffs to balance them out and keep them fun to play as. Let's not just sorta half-try with the buff side.

If you're even remotely considering adding damage slow to borgs it has to be coupled with reducing the effectiveness of stuns against borgs. Borgs don't get soft stuns. This is balanced by borgs not having to deal with slow down from damage. So unless you're willing to make all stuns, including those to carbons (aka crew) last as long as your typical borg stun with complete blind, deaf muteness that lasts 3-8 seconds depending on the source and severity of the stuns, why are you touching silicon balance which has been repeatedly shown to be under performing with only a few edge cases where the borg only succeeded because the other party too no steps what so ever to counter them.

Make borg stuns actually stuns and not full sleep stuns for something as mundane as a laser pointer to the sensor, xeno tackling them or some dipshit using superfart within line of sight. And this entire post completely ignores the fact that if borgs are all rogue, defeating them is easy as just tearing apart the cyborg chargers.

tinodrima7020 wrote:April fools came a little early, huh guys?

I don't know why you want to make borgs essentially fully augmented humans, but with laws and the ability to be killed at any time via console, but alright.

You said everything I wanted to say and then some.

datorangebottle wrote:

tinodrima7020 wrote:April fools came a little early, huh guys?

I don't know why you want to make borgs essentially fully augmented humans, but with laws and the ability to be killed at any time via console, but alright.

You said everything I wanted to say and then some.

You wanted to say a completely incorrect strawman assumption that doesn't even deserve a reply?

>bumping your own post in your own thread for lack of (You)s
I agree with tinodrima

borgs may have conventional stun immunity, but they also have no access to stun reduction chemicals or other ways of preventing stuns. If you catch a borg, its over, and right now they move at about the same pace as a person which means with damage slow it would be impossible to escape