Ghost role issue

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iamgoofball
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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby iamgoofball » Tue Feb 12, 2019 11:26 am #476024

if removing configs was allowed we'd have killed time gate on antags ages ago



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MisterPerson
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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby MisterPerson » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:30 pm #476033

adamkad1 wrote:If you actually were not a retard and read what is said, i kept proposing a quiz with answers being LITERALLY COPYPASTEABLE FROM WIKI (can it even be called quiz then...), therefore you dont really need to know how to play the role, you just need to prove you are literate and applied RTFM (Read the f'ing manual)
I am against time gating and it never was the intent of this suggestion, people only derailed it into it for a reason i cannot fathom. Time gating solves no issue, you dont gain experience in something by doing entirely different things/solely watching others do it.
Simply force people to skim over the wiki, because its not hard. If you are typing in here, that (probally) means you are literate enough to read a wiki page
I also do not have anything against people who play a role bad, as long as they have SOME idea how to play it. People trying but failing are hilarious. People who have no idea what they are doing arent hilarious as often.
And for my own opinion (heresy i know) Losing is !!FUN!!, but only if i atleast knew what i was trying to do


That's a tutorial. What you're describing is a tutorial. A really shitty tutorial. What we actually need is a real tutorial. I'm sure nobody will bother doing that because nobody gives a shit about the new player UX.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.

Why realism is stupid:
Spoiler:
Wiz, the project lead of Europa Universalis IV:

Immersion/flavor is playing a WW2 shooter and using a mosin-nagant instead of a laser gun - this is important.

Realism is playing a WW2 shooter and having to spend 2 months in hospital everytime you get shot - stupid and detrimental to gameplay. Nobody actually wants a realistic game, which is why realism arguments are so selectively used.
Source: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/ind ... t-19679470

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iamgoofball
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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby iamgoofball » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:38 pm #476075

MisterPerson wrote:
adamkad1 wrote:If you actually were not a retard and read what is said, i kept proposing a quiz with answers being LITERALLY COPYPASTEABLE FROM WIKI (can it even be called quiz then...), therefore you dont really need to know how to play the role, you just need to prove you are literate and applied RTFM (Read the f'ing manual)
I am against time gating and it never was the intent of this suggestion, people only derailed it into it for a reason i cannot fathom. Time gating solves no issue, you dont gain experience in something by doing entirely different things/solely watching others do it.
Simply force people to skim over the wiki, because its not hard. If you are typing in here, that (probally) means you are literate enough to read a wiki page
I also do not have anything against people who play a role bad, as long as they have SOME idea how to play it. People trying but failing are hilarious. People who have no idea what they are doing arent hilarious as often.
And for my own opinion (heresy i know) Losing is !!FUN!!, but only if i atleast knew what i was trying to do


That's a tutorial. What you're describing is a tutorial. A really shitty tutorial. What we actually need is a real tutorial. I'm sure nobody will bother doing that because nobody gives a shit about the new player UX.

i mean, when we tried adding animations to show things like pickups people threw a hissy fit about it making the game too easy so I mean we'll need to start banning thos epeople

you can do your part by filing Github Reports against people shitting up the comments section, remember to report for any kind of hostile language

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby somerandomguy » Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:42 am #476176

Reporting is what got astral found out
Also >banning people from using words
>not just using a wordfilter

Ispiria wrote:
SaveVatznick wrote:We don't have a points system or a win loss record because the point of the game isn't to strive to win, but to enjoy your time playing it.

Can we get this quote engraved ingame or embedded on the forums somewhere, or something, to permanently mark the moment Leora perfectly described the underlying purpose of SS13?

This

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby iamgoofball » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:14 am #476244

somerandomguy wrote:Reporting is what got astral found out
Also >banning people from using words
>not just using a wordfilter


Tough shit, do your job and report people who shit up the comments. We'll have less people shitting up PR comments if it results in a github vacation every time they do it.

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby datorangebottle » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:38 am #476252

adamkad1 wrote:If you actually were not a retard and read what is said, i kept proposing a quiz with answers being LITERALLY COPYPASTEABLE FROM WIKI (can it even be called quiz then...), therefore you dont really need to know how to play the role, you just need to prove you are literate and applied RTFM (Read the f'ing manual)
I am against time gating and it never was the intent of this suggestion, people only derailed it into it for a reason i cannot fathom. Time gating solves no issue, you dont gain experience in something by doing entirely different things/solely watching others do it.
Simply force people to skim over the wiki, because its not hard. If you are typing in here, that (probally) means you are literate enough to read a wiki page
I also do not have anything against people who play a role bad, as long as they have SOME idea how to play it. People trying but failing are hilarious. People who have no idea what they are doing arent hilarious as often.
And for my own opinion (heresy i know) Losing is !!FUN!!, but only if i atleast knew what i was trying to do

Thanks for the ad hominem.

Anyway, A) people would have to know where the wiki is and have it open when they get a chance to ghost role antag. B) reading the manual doesn't make you good at the role, it means you kinda know the basic mechanics but might not understand what the wiki's actually saying.

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby adamkad1 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:02 pm #476363

Ispiria wrote:
SaveVatznick wrote:We don't have a points system or a win loss record because the point of the game isn't to strive to win, but to enjoy your time playing it.

Can we get this quote engraved ingame or embedded on the forums somewhere, or something, to permanently mark the moment Leora perfectly described the underlying purpose of SS13?

Also put Imsxz name in honorable mentions

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby adamkad1 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:51 pm #479646

datorangebottle wrote:
adamkad1 wrote:If you actually were not a retard and read what is said, i kept proposing a quiz with answers being LITERALLY COPYPASTEABLE FROM WIKI (can it even be called quiz then...), therefore you dont really need to know how to play the role, you just need to prove you are literate and applied RTFM (Read the f'ing manual)
I am against time gating and it never was the intent of this suggestion, people only derailed it into it for a reason i cannot fathom. Time gating solves no issue, you dont gain experience in something by doing entirely different things/solely watching others do it.
Simply force people to skim over the wiki, because its not hard. If you are typing in here, that (probally) means you are literate enough to read a wiki page
I also do not have anything against people who play a role bad, as long as they have SOME idea how to play it. People trying but failing are hilarious. People who have no idea what they are doing arent hilarious as often.
And for my own opinion (heresy i know) Losing is !!FUN!!, but only if i atleast knew what i was trying to do

Thanks for the ad hominem.

Anyway, A) people would have to know where the wiki is and have it open when they get a chance to ghost role antag. B) reading the manual doesn't make you good at the role, it means you kinda know the basic mechanics but might not understand what the wiki's actually saying.



A) if you are playing the game, there is a button. B) Its still better than 0 knowledge

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby datorangebottle » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:04 am #479859

adamkad1 wrote:A) if you are playing the game, there is a button. B) Its still better than 0 knowledge

By the time the average person reads the wiki page, the chance to get the ghost role has already been taken by people who know what they're doing. While yes, having someone read a wiki page before doing something is better than them not knowing what the fuck they're doing, forcing them to read to even have a chance at the ghost role flies in the face of learning conventions. Some people learn best by doing, or being taught by another person, instead of reading.

Also, who wants to stop watching this wacky spaceman game to read a manual instead of going right into some blob/space ninja/pirate/etc action? What if they read the wiki page and then don't get the role? They just wasted a good minute or two of reading that they could've spent doing something else.

Last thing I'm saying in this thread: you are not entitled to a good blob. You are not entitled to a good space ninja. Hell, you aren't even entitled to a good holoparasite. You're stuck with what you get, so suck it up and stop trying to add more obnoxious gates to things that don't need them.

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby confused rock » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:32 pm #480049

SS13 is a very slow game that starts with you inevitably reading the rules and basic controls, and in all the time you have in game dead, there's plenty of room to read about ghost roles.
Image

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Re: Ghost role issue

Postby adamkad1 » Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:56 am #486690

datorangebottle wrote:
adamkad1 wrote:A) if you are playing the game, there is a button. B) Its still better than 0 knowledge

By the time the average person reads the wiki page, the chance to get the ghost role has already been taken by people who know what they're doing. While yes, having someone read a wiki page before doing something is better than them not knowing what the fuck they're doing, forcing them to read to even have a chance at the ghost role flies in the face of learning conventions. Some people learn best by doing, or being taught by another person, instead of reading.

Also, who wants to stop watching this wacky spaceman game to read a manual instead of going right into some blob/space ninja/pirate/etc action? What if they read the wiki page and then don't get the role? They just wasted a good minute or two of reading that they could've spent doing something else.

Last thing I'm saying in this thread: you are not entitled to a good blob. You are not entitled to a good space ninja. Hell, you aren't even entitled to a good holoparasite. You're stuck with what you get, so suck it up and stop trying to add more obnoxious gates to things that don't need them.


You are not entitled to have a good coworker or a doctor that will revive you either

And checking wiki isnt hard or painfull. Hell, i really like reading wikis, because i like learning new things but i guess im weird, and im supposed to be like others, grab things because fancy! and then mill around doing nothing because i have no idea what to do. Because retardation is a completly normal thing

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