/tg/Station 13

Steelpoint wrote:This might lead to a lot of broken/exploitable things occurring.

Personally I think it would be far more efficient to redo chemistry from the ground up instead of sewing on other servers chem code.

Intigracy wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:This might lead to a lot of broken/exploitable things occurring.

Personally I think it would be far more efficient to redo chemistry from the ground up instead of sewing on other servers chem code.

All there is to say.

iamgoofball wrote:I'd like to petition to get this reverted, or at least waivered for the goonchem PR so we can have a good 1/4th of goon chemistry not need to be cut out.

This is a video game where I can brutally saw a man's leg off, beat him to death with it, take out his brain, clone him into a new body, gib the old body, salvage the meat, and forcefeed it to the new body.

But drugs are apparently too bad. I can't exactly figure out why this is a thing, and the maintainers I have asked said they don't know exactly why other then it being a rule, and they suggested making a petition.

If the worry is that people will just get high on drugs 24/7 when it comes out, yeah, they might, but people (ab)use any new feature 24/7. People were using telesci 24/7 when it first came out. People were using rollies 24/7 when it first came out.

AnonymousNow wrote:I, for one, am always happy to see features added, rather than removed.

iamgoofball wrote: TG chemists right now have tricord for healing everything, or a string of chemicals that are just "the last chem but better". and that's it. Kinda boring.
Goon chemists have a wider variety of healing chemicals, such as Salbutamol and Perfluorodecalin. Salbutamol heals oxy loss and shit, but Perfluorodecalin heals a shitton of it with a downside: You can't talk for a little while. It can stabilize patients faster then inaprovaline ever could, but they can't talk for a short while afterwards, so you have to actually think about what you're forcefeeding that guy and not just grabbing a healall pill off the counter, shoving it down his throat, and watching him jump right back up and calling it a night.

Miauw wrote:2. our chemistry system needs to be rewritten, and just adding some dumb heater won't make it the littlest bit more interesting.

AnonymousNow wrote:You guys already nerfed my medical robots. Don't get rid of my bruisepacks and ointment.

Saegrimr wrote:And then nobody does their fucking job in chemistry. Again.

AnonymousNow wrote:Hold on. I'm resistant to the loss of bruise packs and ointment, as they're not only the current backbone of an efficient medical force, but also important for medical emergencies in their parts in kits all over the station.

You guys already nerfed my medical robots. Don't get rid of my bruisepacks and ointment.

iamgoofball wrote:This is not the baymed discussion thread.

Steelpoints playground of fun
GREAT SPELLING MISTAKES ABOUND
This is all on the spot, don't expect perfection.

Example: Round start with several chemicals
Chem A, B, C, D, etc.

Combine chemicals to test for outcomes, for example placing Chem A with Chem B would create Chem AB. Placing Chem AB inside a "testing machine" will hint to several possible combinations and outcomes.

In this case, the machine states that Chem AB can be comnbined with two (max of three) other reagents. In this case Silver and Oxygen.

If we combine Chem AB with Oxygen, we get Dexalin Plus. (This is different every round, another round we might get Clonexdone).

As your researching these tier 2 chemicals (Tier 1 chem's are the crappy round start one's you can make from the get go) you might discover a Tier 3 chemical base. In our example this would be Chem AB+. Tier 3 chems are used to create tier 3 chemicals, the highest tier you can get (Tricord, Poly Acid, etc).

HOWEVER! You need to combine two tier 3 chems and one reagent togther in order to discover a tier 3 chemical. So you would need, for example, Chem AB+, Chem BD+ and Silver to discover poly acid!

Tier 1 chems should be named after real life chemicals, with tier 2 and 3 being given the more futuristic names.

WBS PLAYGROUND

The way I had this worked out in an old design doc was to have chemists basically fill the role of a pharmaceutical RnD lab, they'd have to create recipes/formulas based on experimentation (organic chemistry wooooo) which could then be produced very easily be a machine (or a separate job pharmacist).

The pharmacy would start off with very basic chems, eg 1 burn heal, 1 tox healh, 1 stimulant, etc. These would be very weak, and while suitable for triage, not really desirable for a whole round.

So the research chemists would be relied upon to turn out advance medical chems, along with the experimental ones for things that wouldn't have easy/any cures at round start.

Pros of this approach:
- Less tedious busy work involved
- Easier access to chems from medbay (important in baymed)
- More fun
- More involved, deeper than just "mix X and Y from a wiki recipe"

This can also easily segue into a system for industrial chems: for example, engineers could have a industrial chem lab where they mix advance lubricants, fuels, silicate for winnows, acids, etc. Better lubes would be used as buffs for cyborgs and bots and fuels would improve welders and possible jet packs. And naturally all of this would be very interesting to traitors and other antags.

Delicious wrote:Adding some neat shit to a stale part of the game. Seems too fun for the maintainers to pull.

Steelpoint wrote:

Delicious wrote:Adding some neat shit to a stale part of the game. Seems too fun for the maintainers to pull.

From what I saw they (Miauw and MrPerson) do want to see something better and more fun come out of chemistry. I won't put words in their mouth but I think if a good system is/was developed it would get added to the game.

fleure wrote:Whatever happened to https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9 ? Numbers had some p cool ideas.

Steelpoint wrote:Numbers had always had a very close attachment to chemistry and tended to shut down attempts to change it and had been in a very lengthy process of making a new chemistry system.

So Akkryls is correct in stating that Numbers is responsible for the chemistry stagnation to a extent.

Akkryls wrote: I completely understand some people may want to stop others from making code changes if they are working on some big overhaul, but I swear Chemistry is essentially the same as when I first joined /tg/station three years ago. The only real changes were that Sillicate was removed (God I miss that stuff) and some nerfs to some of the harmful chems like Chloral and P.acid.

Was there any ever evidence of Numbers' work on it?

iamgoofball wrote: Goon chemists have Liquid Dark Matter explosions that suck everything in the room into 1 tile to assassinate people, or they can use Sorium and Chlorine Trifluoride Foam to make a station melting foam that lights anything it touches on fire and sends it flying, or they can use Krokodil Smoke to make everyone die of having their skin fall off. Hell of a lot more cooler then just polyacid, right?

Steelpoint wrote:I still think this is a bad idea.

While I appreciate the effort put into coding and porting this, I believe we would be far better off with a chemistry overhaul akin to the two suggestions I presented earlier in this thread. I'm just wary of putting two separate chemistry systems into the game and then gutting our version.