New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

A place to record your ideas for the game.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

User avatar
Razharas
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:55 pm
Byond Username: Razharas

New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Razharas » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:25 am #472609

Goof is currently in the process of making new health system which takes hp, throws it out the window and replaces with pure trauma management system

Traumas are essentially what current brain traumas are but generalised to all organs and bodyparts, i.e. a token which does something to a mob when present

Each organ and bodypart will have a separate list of possible traumas, each trauma will specifically interact with its organ/bodypart type
Items which can inflict traumas will have either a bitflag-related(or maybe defines if we will have too many sybsets of possible traumas) subset of possible traumas, with each organs/bodyparts traumas list separated by the bitflags(defines), for example "piencing-minor" or "toxic-brutal"
Each time an item with possible traumas connects a hit to an organ/bodypart(as in its not a miss and not blocked by armour) special trauma-recipe system will check what traumas are already present, what is the possible list of traumas this item can inflict, and then through some numbers magic(weights, chances, this is just question of balance) will decide should it apply new trauma and what type should it be

The idea behind this system is to make all items less illidiately-deadly and more later-fucks-you-up

In this thread post your proposals for different traumas for different organs/bodyparts

For example:

Minor nerve damage - applicable to arms and legs, applicable by medium or bigger sized sharp objects and big blunt objects
Generates slight pain when applied
For legs, when moving generates slight pain(mood down + slowdown for limbs based on amount of pain), when running generates moderate pain
For arms, when holding something generates slight pain, when using something generates moderate pain, has a chance to drop whats in hand when using item in that hand
Doesnt heal with time, needs to be treated, complicated treatment(operation or injection of a high tier chem with scanning), very fast healing after treatment
Multiple applications promote existing minor nerve damage to a medium nerve damage

Bruise - applicable to all organs and bodyparts, applicable to arms, legs, head and groin by any objects, to internal organs by medium or bigger sized objects
Periodically generates slight pain for limbs, occasionally generates moderate pain in internal organs
Can heal itself with a bit of time, treating makes healing over time faster, simple treatment(apply of ointments)
Multiple applications work independantly 90% of times, 10% chance to promote existing bruise to a large bruise

Large bruise - applicable to all organs and bodyparts, applicable to arms, legs, head and groin by medium or bigger blunt objects, to internal organs by big sized objects
Generates moderate pain when applied and periodically
Bruises applied to this organ generate moderate pain on application
Can heal itself over some time, treating lowers the periodical and bruise-applicable pain to slight from moderate and makes healing over time faster, moderate treatment(injection for faster healing and a patch for lower applicable damage for limbs, with internal organs needs scanning for injection and no way to lower applicable damage from new bruises)



You got the idea, post em up idea bois



User avatar
PKPenguin321
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Byond Username: PKPenguin321
Github Username: PKPenguin321

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:36 am #472611

My idea is to not do any of that
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
leibniz
 
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 6:21 pm
Location: Seeking help
Byond Username: Leibniz

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby leibniz » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:39 am #472612

Razharas wrote:Goof


I'm going to stop you right there
Founder and only member of the "Whitelist Nukeops" movement

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby oranges » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:31 am #472617

*music stops*

User avatar
iamgoofball
Github User
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 5:50 pm
Byond Username: Iamgoofball
Github Username: Iamgoofball

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby iamgoofball » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:32 am #472618

leibniz wrote:
Razharas wrote:Goof


I'm going to stop you right there

Get over it

PKPenguin321 wrote:My idea is to not do any of that


Get fucked

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:59 am #472620

how will it interact with damaging chems? 1 new trauma for every kind of poison?

4dplanner
 
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:51 am
Byond Username: 4DPlanner
Github Username: 4dplanner

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby 4dplanner » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:08 am #472623

"Less instantly deadly"

On what timescale? Will I still be able to beat the shit out of someone before sec arrives, or will I be halfway through breaking their third rib?
Image

MGP
 
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:47 am
Byond Username: PME

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby MGP » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:43 am #472626

Sure, this is a good idea.

Minor Brute Trauma:
Minor slowdown of use of limb, slight impact of performance on that organ/body part. For example if the hand is effected, takes a bit longer to pick something up or to use an item in your hand. Maybe able to be easily slept off in lying in a bed if no doctors are around.
Moderate Brute Trauma:
Performance of organ/body part moderately effected. If for example applied to hand, items would randomly drop out of it or not be usable. Maybe heal over a period of time if bruise pack or sleep is applied. Can be coupled with broken bones that need professional attention.
Major Brute Trauma:
Nonfunctional body part, high amount of pain. For example if applied to your hand, you wouldn't be able to pick up an item at all. Needs professional medical intervention. Often coupled with broken bones.

Minor Pain:
Very minor slowdown, plus very infrequent textual reminders you're in pain.
Moderate Pain:
Moderate slowdown. Moderate chance of pain paralysis and minor chance of passing out due to pain. Some reminders that oh shit, I'm in a fuck load of pain. A little bit of bloody screen so real.
Major Pain:
Bloody screen so real. Semi-obnoxious giant red textual reminders you're in pain. Screams of agony. Crawling as the only form of movement. Frequent paralysis due to shock (where speech is still possible). Frequent passing out (unconsciousness). Basically like crit, except more functional. Not actually correlated with death, in theory you can have high pain and be alive the whole time. Usually this would be coupled with wounds that result in death due to blood loss or internal organ damage though.

Artery Cut:
Limb is highly fragile and be dismembered or "broken off" with brute force very easily. Constant blood loss eventually leading to unconsciousness. Nonfunctional body part.

Broken Bone:
Has a chance of randomly proccing damage to nearby internal organs, non functional limb. Ribs and skull the most dangerous.

Punctured Lung/Stomach/Liver/etc:
OH SHIT YOU BETTER GET TO THE DOCTOR or you're gonna die. Blood loss.

Infection:
Steady amounts of tox damage accumulate that cannot be healed without proper chemical. If it gets bad enough you die.
Last edited by MGP on Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:25 am, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Lumbermancer
 
Joined: Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:40 am
Byond Username: Lumbermancer

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Lumbermancer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:30 pm #472656

The only bad thing ever goof did was the "economy", so let's give him a benefit of a doubt. I like the idea of more complex health/medical systems.
aka Schlomo Gaskin aka Guru Meditation aka Copyright Alright aka Topkek McHonk aka Le Rouge
Image

User avatar
MisterPerson
Board Moderator
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:26 pm
Byond Username: MisterPerson

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby MisterPerson » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:41 pm #472657

oranges wrote:*music stops*

*freeze frame*
Narrator: Yeah that's me. You're probably wondering how I got into this mess.

Don't use bitflags. You'll never want a bruise+nerve injury. If you did, make it 2 different injuries instead of one weird omniinjury. Unless you mean the organ would store the traumas as a bitflag, in which case ew no, use a list that stores trauma datums. A billion times easier to add new traumas, no limits on how many you can add, storable information like logging and timestamps, and you can define per-injury information like what kind of alert to generate, how much pain it causes, what messages to give to the player when they get/lose the trauma, etc on the injury itself instead of having to either make a single injury class or add functions to mobs to handle injuries.

Personally I dislike the idea solely because it will use that fucking targeting doll I hate with a passion, but for everyone else, this might strike an ok balance between making medical fun and Medbay's Wild Ride. I'm a wee bit concerned most mild injuries are just "If you do anything with this limb, you take pain" and/or "causes pain over time" and/or "eventually turns into a real problem" which is frankly both boring and confusing. And no, I don't consider "needs different thing to heal it" as interesting. So try to limit how many mild traumas you introduce. If the only difference is the name and what's needed to heal it, don't bother. For severe traumas be careful about making the game unplayable (blindness, passing out every 10 seconds, extreme slowdown, etc). The fun is in being killed by the effects in a situation you would otherwise survive or "beating" the injury, not suiciding because the game isn't fun to play anymore.
I code for the code project and moderate the code sections of the forums.

Why realism is stupid:
Spoiler:
Wiz, the project lead of Europa Universalis IV:

Immersion/flavor is playing a WW2 shooter and using a mosin-nagant instead of a laser gun - this is important.

Realism is playing a WW2 shooter and having to spend 2 months in hospital everytime you get shot - stupid and detrimental to gameplay. Nobody actually wants a realistic game, which is why realism arguments are so selectively used.
Source: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/ind ... t-19679470

User avatar
Razharas
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:55 pm
Byond Username: Razharas

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Razharas » Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:18 am #472849

To answer some quesions:

1)For chemical cases it will be basically cut+paste of current chem effect into a trauma effects, each chem metabolism check it will just try to apply the effect through the appliance of the associated trauma(effects can be positive, trauma is just a name of a similar system we already have, can be named "health effect")

2)Bitflags of items arent a combination of what will be applied, its a combination of sublists with traumas which can be caused by weapons with such bitflag in an organ's list of all possible traumas,
Code: Select all
list/possible_traumas = list("minor-piercing"=list(/datum/trauma/small_cut, /datum/trauma/small_puncture, /datum/trauma/blablabla),"minor_bludgeon"=list(/datum/trauma/bruise,...
and so on, weapons bitflag is transformed into key by table like minor_cut = 1, minor_bludgeon = 2 and so on, maybe it will be all pure defines

3)Traumas will be either a roundstart init list with organs using a list with keys as refs to the inited singletons and values as lists of stored data(if there is anything to store, mostly time of last activation of periodic effects/time of recieving of this trauma) or straight up lists of datums, definitely not bitflags in ograns(i mean its possible but the system will be convoluted)

4)Immidiately deadly means exactly 7 clicks to death with a hatchet(crit is death), with traumas 7 clicks with a hatchet most likely wont kill you on the spot but almost certainly will fuck you up for the rest of the round unless you take a long medbay vacation, needless to say that all simple hp+ chems/bruisepack/ointment will be gone and at best there will be instant specific trauma removers in the higher grade of chemitry/research, all other chems and items at best will accelerate natural healing for traumas which can heal with time, but mostly be either symptom-removers or progression retardants of some specific traumas

5)Goof is good enough

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby confused rock » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:08 pm #472894

“If you do anything with this limb, you take pain” was cozy in lifeweb because the wound wasn’t quite bad enough to cry for a medic over but you felt that guy beating you up long after
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Gamarr
 
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:10 pm
Byond Username: Gamarr

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Gamarr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:14 pm #472923

This is Needed, badly, but you can accomplish a lot with not going too deep. This difference is felt between just comparing Bay health to Goon. Goon is still considerably more in-depth than ours and relatively simple still nonetheless. One glaring problem with present 'hp' is that you fall down rather instantly at 0 and crit removes you from everything entirely. Which is fine, I suppose, if you want gameplay to remain where it's at.

With a more involved health system you can also have a more in-depth combat/stats for your game but they are needed together else the effect will be greatly overshadowed by the other.

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby confused rock » Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:25 am #473010

most importantly this really does sound like lifeweb health so the only thing that'd make me harder for this is if it was actually finished
Image
Image
Image

PostThis post was deleted by MisterPerson on Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:10 pm.
Reason: Shitposting

User avatar
Steelpoint
Github User
 
Joined: Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:37 pm
Location: The Armoury
Byond Username: Steelpoint
Github Username: Steelpoint

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Steelpoint » Wed Jan 30, 2019 12:00 pm #473125

The proposed system does strike me as being similar to Lifewebs medical system, albeit likely less complex. I also notice the implication that pain will be more prominent of a feature, which is a staple of baymed and lifewebs systems as well.

In fact, literally all the suggestions I am reading are pretty close in style to Lifewubs system. Torn arteries, broken bones, infections, organ damage, pain, trauma.
Image

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby confused rock » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:07 pm #473149

How will disablers and tasers and batons work? Will disablers be dislocators? Will tasers be pain rays?
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Anonmare
 
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:59 pm
Location: Blighty
Byond Username: Anonmare

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Anonmare » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:41 am #473249

Replace prison cells with agony booths

Image
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
Razharas
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:55 pm
Byond Username: Razharas

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Razharas » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:49 am #473366

Additional notes:

This system doesnt augment current one, it completely replaces it, this means there will be no hp bars on mobs, on organs, or on anything else, all kinds of damage will be emulated through traumas, be it toxic, blood loss, oxy loss, irradiation, pain, stamina or anything else we come up with, so when describing effect do specify how shall it work in the context of this system

Ideally mutations and viruses will be united with this and provide special abilities on organ basis through status effects too

Note that for things like blood-loss there will need to be implemented arterial/venous system as organ which will contain actual chemical reagent blood, as besides gameplay changes this change will also attempt at further decomposing mobs into bodypart-lego to cut the horrid entangled mob code we have right now into separate microservicesbodypart modules of which you will be able to compose anything you want

Dont be shy to propose more indepth organ representation either, if we have appendix we sure as hell can implement pancreas or inner ear structure should the need arise for more ways to fuck with mobs

Zarniwoop
 
Joined: Sat Oct 01, 2016 7:47 pm
Byond Username: Dagum

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Zarniwoop » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:24 pm #473369

confused rock wrote:most importantly this really does sound like lifeweb health so the only thing that'd make me harder for this is if it was actually finished


Goof is coding it so dont count on that.

Tlaltecuhtli
 
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:16 am
Byond Username: Tlaltecuhtli

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:45 pm #473376

this could make stuff like poisons into-> minor cyanide poisoning, mayor fentanyl,etc and instead of wait out for the poison to be processed into use a specifc antivenom while keeping the dude alive and have the doc find out what he got poisoned with by looking at the synthoms

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby confused rock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:15 pm #473380

Zarniwoop wrote:
confused rock wrote:most importantly this really does sound like lifeweb health so the only thing that'd make me harder for this is if it was actually finished


Goof is coding it so dont count on that.

Shut up and fuck off thanks, goof coded our chemistry, stocks were the coziest cargo ever was, goof made the tesla and you’re the kind of braindead idiot to like the tesla so quit talking shit about someone who actually tries
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby DemonFiren » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:44 pm #473385

>goof coded our chemistry
an unforgivable offense
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image

PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:16 am.
Reason: run your mouth, suffer the price

User avatar
confused rock
 
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:18 am
Byond Username: The unloved rock

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby confused rock » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:48 pm #473433

Alright thanks all I needed to know was that your words aren't worth considering
Image
Image
Image

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby oranges » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:15 am #473550

I've placed zarniwoop on post approval in the dev forum, since he's only here to sling shit.

It's doubly ironic, since his bitch ass hasn't coded shit.

Dr_bee
 
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
Byond Username: DrBee

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Dr_bee » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:53 am #473608

Adding mystery to diagnoses would be pretty fun to be honest. Not fun for the victim but it would be like a mini episode of House MD for every injury.

You might actually have to ask your patients what they are feeling or what happened to them instead of slapping synthflesh on them. Which would actually encourage roleplay via mechanics.

User avatar
Ayy Lemoh
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:58 pm
Byond Username: Jerry Derpington

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Ayy Lemoh » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:58 am #473613

Dr_bee wrote:Adding mystery to diagnoses would be pretty fun to be honest. Not fun for the victim but it would be like a mini episode of House MD for every injury.

You might actually have to ask your patients what they are feeling or what happened to them instead of slapping synthflesh on them. Which would actually encourage roleplay via mechanics.

That just seems unnecessary. You should be able to tell if someone was bashed in the head with a baseball bat without going so do you feel a thumping headache in the back of your head or a throbbing pain? quickly looks at wiki

Dr_bee
 
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
Byond Username: DrBee

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Dr_bee » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:33 am #473621

Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:Adding mystery to diagnoses would be pretty fun to be honest. Not fun for the victim but it would be like a mini episode of House MD for every injury.

You might actually have to ask your patients what they are feeling or what happened to them instead of slapping synthflesh on them. Which would actually encourage roleplay via mechanics.

That just seems unnecessary. You should be able to tell if someone was bashed in the head with a baseball bat without going so do you feel a thumping headache in the back of your head or a throbbing pain? quickly looks at wiki


More like, "where does it hurt? Your head? Did you get into any fights? no? did you eat anything recently? yes? it is probably a neurotoxin poison, we better administer some charcoal and monitor you for mental trauma's in case you need surgery"

No easy health scans, just examining the patient either with words or eyes.

User avatar
DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby DemonFiren » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:19 am #473737

Dr_bee wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:Adding mystery to diagnoses would be pretty fun to be honest. Not fun for the victim but it would be like a mini episode of House MD for every injury.

You might actually have to ask your patients what they are feeling or what happened to them instead of slapping synthflesh on them. Which would actually encourage roleplay via mechanics.

That just seems unnecessary. You should be able to tell if someone was bashed in the head with a baseball bat without going so do you feel a thumping headache in the back of your head or a throbbing pain? quickly looks at wiki


More like, "where does it hurt? Your head? Did you get into any fights? no? did you eat anything recently? yes? it is probably a neurotoxin poison, we better administer some charcoal and monitor you for mental trauma's in case you need surgery"

No easy health scans, just examining the patient either with words or eyes.


>requiring arpee
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image

Dr_bee
 
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:31 pm
Byond Username: DrBee

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Dr_bee » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:27 pm #473806

DemonFiren wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:Adding mystery to diagnoses would be pretty fun to be honest. Not fun for the victim but it would be like a mini episode of House MD for every injury.

You might actually have to ask your patients what they are feeling or what happened to them instead of slapping synthflesh on them. Which would actually encourage roleplay via mechanics.

That just seems unnecessary. You should be able to tell if someone was bashed in the head with a baseball bat without going so do you feel a thumping headache in the back of your head or a throbbing pain? quickly looks at wiki


More like, "where does it hurt? Your head? Did you get into any fights? no? did you eat anything recently? yes? it is probably a neurotoxin poison, we better administer some charcoal and monitor you for mental trauma's in case you need surgery"

No easy health scans, just examining the patient either with words or eyes.


>requiring arpee


hey, making medical easier if you actually talk to your patient instead of throwing them in a machine in a game focused around roleplaying isnt exactly bad design.

User avatar
DemonFiren
 
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
Byond Username: DemonFiren

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby DemonFiren » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:05 pm #473816

Dr_bee wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:
Ayy Lemoh wrote:
Dr_bee wrote:Adding mystery to diagnoses would be pretty fun to be honest. Not fun for the victim but it would be like a mini episode of House MD for every injury.

You might actually have to ask your patients what they are feeling or what happened to them instead of slapping synthflesh on them. Which would actually encourage roleplay via mechanics.

That just seems unnecessary. You should be able to tell if someone was bashed in the head with a baseball bat without going so do you feel a thumping headache in the back of your head or a throbbing pain? quickly looks at wiki


More like, "where does it hurt? Your head? Did you get into any fights? no? did you eat anything recently? yes? it is probably a neurotoxin poison, we better administer some charcoal and monitor you for mental trauma's in case you need surgery"

No easy health scans, just examining the patient either with words or eyes.


>requiring arpee


hey, making medical easier if you actually talk to your patient instead of throwing them in a machine in a game focused around roleplaying isnt exactly bad design.


No, of course it isn't a bad idea in a game focued on roleplaying.
Image
Image
Image
ImageImageImageImageImage

non-lizard things:
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
Floiven
 
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 11:20 pm
Byond Username: Brak7000

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Floiven » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:38 pm #474195

If you're planning on going the route of have to diagnose conditions in order to treat them, I suggest that instead of that being the required method of treatment, make it a better version that's faster and more efficient for those that want to put in the effort to do their jobs as a doctor. Maybe patches or self treatment can cover the general damage at a slower pace, while a doctor can get some positive reinforcement with more effective and professional treatment that they can provide. I think that'd go a ways to alleviate people wordlessly walking in and self treating and ignoring medical staff, while also giving a chance for those who enjoy doing their job well as a doctor to get some appreciation from the patients.

User avatar
cocothegogo
 
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2014 10:11 pm
Location: assistant
Byond Username: Cocothegog0

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby cocothegogo » Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:19 pm #474223

is this baystation?
CJ AJ

User avatar
Razharas
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 8:55 pm
Byond Username: Razharas

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Razharas » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:52 am #474361

Expected method of trauma treatment is:

1)Notice that something is not right(like a text saying you are in an excruciating pain while rolling blinded on the floor)
2)Haul your ass to medbay or screm at your lungs that you need help in theatre maint
3)Doc examines you for any obvious shit like a gaping hole in your abdomen, then uses medscanner for any noticable internal structure damage like dislocations, closed bone fractures or lack of certain organs
4)If nothing onbvious shows up then you need to either have some special examination tools(ungraded med scanners, maybe even special machine like bluespace mrt or something), examination technicues like maybe special chems which allows one to see some hidden traumas, or even examinatory operation where you open dude up to see if theres anything wrong
5)When the offending trauma is found then doc gives you your daily dose treatment, sometimes its special tools or items like splint, sometimes special operation, maybe some medical chems
6)After proper treatment trauma will be gone either instantly or over time depending on trauma conditions

Small things can heal themselves over time or be treated with simple stuff like a bondage, but anything under your skin is pretty much beyond your reach or ability to diagnose

User avatar
actioninja
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:40 am
Location: comatose
Byond Username: Actioninja

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby actioninja » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:04 am #474394

Razharas wrote:simple stuff like a bondage,

Woah now.
Memes aside, this sounds neat. Med scanners not just showing a straight list of traumas would be definitely a good decision though.
Image

User avatar
Mickyan
Github User
 
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:59 pm
Byond Username: Mickyan
Github Username: Mickyan

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Mickyan » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:44 pm #474410

if getting drunk is an effective way to keep pain buildup at bay at least temporarily i'm 100% on board with this

Speaking of which, are pain and stamina two different things cause it sounds like they'd effectively serve the same function
ImageI play as Swanni, the brain-damaged moth.
Be nice to each other.

User avatar
JJRcop
 
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:52 am
Byond Username: JJRcop
Github Username: JJRcop

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby JJRcop » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:13 am #480689

I'm thinking of reviving https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/36090 (with changes). Is this not compatible with these health system changes? I'm speaking from a gameplay standpoint, not a code standpoint.
I lurk quite often...

ATHATH
 
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:41 am
Byond Username: ATHATH

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby ATHATH » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:40 pm #481021

PKPenguin321 wrote:My idea is to not do any of that

This.

Also, this is relevant (from https://i.reddit.com/r/SS13/comments/asbfrr/sigh/): https://i.redd.it/4jbpczvmkjh21.jpg

If you're on a lowpop round without many/any/competent Medbay personnel, life will be a living hell (and God help you if a traitor bombs Medbay or the Wizard kills everyone there and then ignores the new health system with a staff or wand of healing). Being a miner, an ash lizard, a free golem, or another lavaland role will also become pure agony, as you presumably won't give them any way to properly heal the injuries that they sustain from mobs without the assistance of a medical doctor and won't update the ruins to actually give them the supplies that they need to heal themselves. Also, R.I.P. space exploration (unless you want to return to the station every time you take damage).

Imagine being cloned from an unupgraded cloner without any chemists on hand to make you neurine, except far, far worse (because you can't cure it with one chem) and it happens whenever you take damage. That's what this new system is gonna be like if no one rolls medical doctor (or if the only Medbay staff are antags or dead).

Again, what problem is this supposed to solve here? As far as I can tell, Medbay/our current medical system is fine- doctors have things to do and are treating patients, and the job isn't so complex that newer players are pushed away from it.

How will the passive self-healing of podpeople and alien golems and the active non-self healing of support holoparasites work under this new system?

Do you think that this system will be fun for anyone but doctors?

Accurately sums up my feelings about my PR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

User avatar
Retardedgrayshit
 
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2018 10:33 am
Location: Hell
Byond Username: Darkness12344

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Retardedgrayshit » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:07 am #481138

You better add it i want every last one of you to suffer
Image
Image

User avatar
Caiggas
 
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 2:51 pm
Byond Username: Caiggas

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby Caiggas » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:07 am #481158

Quick question, do you guys have an idea of how this will interact with our armor systems? I think this may be a promising idea, but it will need a LOT of design work.
“A choice with a clear optimal answer isn't actually a choice, and therefore isn't fun”

VV Quote in which Goofball agrees to follow the will of the players if he gets elected as headmin. VV
Spoiler:
Caiggas wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Caiggas wrote:
iamgoofball wrote:
Caiggas wrote:Now, what if you get a majority of feedback against a decision you have made? Are you just going to accept the feedback but ignore it, are you going to "think about it", but still do what you feel is correct, or are you going to COMPLETELY allow the feedback to dictate your decision regardless of your own opinions? For me to concede those last points, I can ONLY accept the last option. Otherwise you can just veto player democracy anytime you feel like it.
like the whistleblower thing, i'm sure some player will come up with a better alternative for the idea that works out and gives more power to the proletariat player and coder instead of the bourgeois


That's not an answer to the question. Let me put it more plainly. If the majority of player feedback is AGAINST a decision you made, are you or are you not going to change the decision to align with the majority of player feedback? Its a yes or no question.

uh, yes? what part of that wasn't clear


Trying to make sure there is no ambiguity in your answer. I don't want you to accuse me of taking something out of context if I ever have to throw the screenshot of this at you.

ATHATH
 
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:41 am
Byond Username: ATHATH

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby ATHATH » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:45 pm #481197

I should also bring up another point: Are we sure that making our medical system (more) complex is a good idea?

Do we want doctors to screw up on a regular basis, forcing people to die or endure a 10-30 minute waiting period because someone other than them (the patient) was incompetent? That sounds like a terrible experience to be subjecting people to.

If you've mastered the medical system and feel that it isn't complex enough for you... just move on to a more complex system/role (like chemistry). The doctor role should be a sort of stepping stone between stuff about as complex as cleaning and stuff about as complex as xenobiology, IMO, which it currently is.

Have you polled/asked doctor/CMO players to see if they want a more complex medical system?

And one last thing: Do we want people to engage in combat less (which they will because of this change)? Won't that just result in more pseudo-extended rounds (the kind in which people call the shuttle because they are BORED) and/or encourage people to stick to more boring, overdone, and "safe" strategies (like plasmaflooding)?

How would simplemobs and borgs be affected by these changes?

User avatar
legoscape
 
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:35 am
Byond Username: Legoscape

Re: New health system needs ideas for traumas and their interactions

Postby legoscape » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:50 am #486706

Razharas wrote:You got the idea, post em up idea bois


If we do this we'd also want bone damage and organ damage and further complexitiys. You want to turn is unto citadel or best rp station.


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users