Bolt action rifles (sprites included)

[leibniz]

To celebrate the end of the freeze we could add bolt action rifles.

I proposed on the previous forum and validsalad made some sprites for it too, but since the community got split etc. things got mixed up, so now I am trying to resurrect this.



How it would work:
(in general they are similar to shotguns)
1. Pick up loaded rifle
2. Point at target and shoot
3. Click gun to eject empty casing and chamber the next round
4. Repeat firing until empty
5. Use clip (not magazine) on gun to insert ammo
6. Click on the gun to chamber the first round
(I dont have freedumbs so if I am wrong about this feel free to correct me)

The rifle should be large, carried on back slots and combat (syndicate, mabye sec?) hardsuit slots.
The bullet should do the same damage as the revolver bullets (maybe more?), since the weapon is more cumbersome and harder to fire it isnt really a balance issue.

It would be nice to spawn a bunch of syndicates and give them rifles to storm the station with no other equipment.

Also, bayonets would be cool too but I imagine it would be difficult to implement that nicely without snowflake code.

[Grazyn]

It would be nice to spawn a bunch of syndicates and give them rifles to storm the station with no other equipment.

One out of two gets rifle. The one with rifle shoots. The one without follows him. When the one with rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up rifle and shoots

[Lo6a4evskiy]

Seems like a resprited shotgun to me

[Perakp]

Having a real sniper rifle that can zoom in on a target from across the map would be cool. You could sit in space outside escape and scope the escape hallway. Boom 360 headshot all day.

[Pomf123]

In the year 2525, we have energy guns, lasers, get power from blackholes and by burning an extremely energy dense material that can easily go from solid to liquid to gas at any temperature, yet we still require manual levers for a gun. I understand that ballistics have a place even in da future but hundreds of years of technology improvements you'd think the act of manually chambering a round is nonexistant.

[Cheridan]

Seems like a resprited shotgun to me

Codewise, that's what they'd be. A magfed firearm that needs a "pump" between shots. Similar to how the double-barrel shotgun is actually a revolver in-code.

[Spacemanspark]

Having a real sniper rifle that can zoom in on a target from across the map would be cool. You could sit in space outside escape and scope the escape hallway. Boom 360 headshot all day.

Baycode has this, the LWAP. It's actually energy based.

[lumipharon]

Wouldn't a bayonet attachment just be well, an attachment, that increases it's melee damage>

[soulgamer]

Dat mosin

I support Moist Nugget Station 13

[Fragnostic]

I'm all for it if this can be deconned and with the appropriate levels, can allow R&D to produce some sort of Plasma Rifle.

This IS a plasma research station, and even to this day have seen no mention of the use of plasma excitation/ionization/electrification. Or maybe an advanced version of this can be made into a Gauss/coilgun.

I still see some practical use to ballistic weapons in the future. They can be shot underwater, in space, almost anywhere, because the gun powder, typically based off of potassium nitrate has self-oxidizing components. I do remember the thread on the old forum for that Mosin-Nagant and loved it. Maybe it could be reinforced or upgraded, like a plasteel/futuristic version because that would make it reasonable to have, even if it is just a new sprite.
I also see this as complimentary to the modular reciever and the wooden stock. While unrelated, it would only make sense that they would be the components to such a rifle.

EDIT: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. That "adding" a bayonet would mean a sprite overlay+an increase in force. And that the attack verbs would change from "butted", "bashed", "whacked" to "stabbed", "slashed", and "ripped". And the force could be 11 and with bayonet 19?

[leibniz]

I'm all for it if this can be deconned and with the appropriate levels, can allow R&D to produce some sort of Plasma Rifle.

This IS a plasma research station, and even to this day have seen no mention of the use of plasma excitation/ionization/electrification. Or maybe an advanced version of this can be made into a Gauss/coilgun.

I still see some practical use to ballistic weapons in the future. They can be shot underwater, in space, almost anywhere, because the gun powder, typically based off of potassium nitrate has self-oxidizing components. I do remember the thread on the old forum for that Mosin-Nagant and loved it. Maybe it could be reinforced or upgraded, like a plasteel/futuristic version because that would make it reasonable to have, even if it is just a new sprite.
I also see this as complimentary to the modular reciever and the wooden stock. While unrelated, it would only make sense that they would be the components to such a rifle.

Yeah I guess giving it a tech origin doesnt hurt but I didnt really consider this important because I was thinking of it as an adminspawned item, not sure how it fits into standard gameplay right now.

Oh yes, it should be in the surplus crate worth around as much as the stetchkin.

[Aleph]

It could be found in an artifact room

The idea of miners playing STALKER seems too good to pass up.

It doesn't seem that overpowered even if it fired the LMG projectile, since the unrobust take a long time to recock the shotgun anyway and this functions the same way, on top of the five round mag.

[Alex Crimson]

I thought those kinda of bolt action rifles had some kinda spring that auto-loaded each round? Do you really need to pull the bolt back manually each time?

[leibniz]

I thought those kinda of bolt action rifles had some kinda spring that auto-loaded each round? Do you really need to pull the bolt back manually each time?

Well, there are many kind of rifles, for example look at this (the sprites were made after this) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHxlthSvVJI
But here is one like you mentioned: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMBQwcsW9PU

I guess we could have both, like, recolor the sprites slightly for the second one, maybe give it a red tint.

[qwert]

It could be part of guncrafting stuff.

[Jacough]

In the year 2525, we have energy guns, lasers, get power from blackholes and by burning an extremely energy dense material that can easily go from solid to liquid to gas at any temperature, yet we still require manual levers for a gun. I understand that ballistics have a place even in da future but hundreds of years of technology improvements you'd think the act of manually chambering a round is nonexistant.

One possibility would be to have it start as a sort of decoration thing, kind of like the captain's laser. Maybe it could start on a plaque in the HOS' S office?

[Timbrewolf]

I'm all for it if this can be deconned and with the appropriate levels, can allow R&D to produce some sort of Plasma Rifle.

Why does everything you have to suggest have to directly benefit Science?

It's metal, wood, and gunpowder. Deconstructing it should remove levels of research because of how low-tech it is.

More on topic: making it randomly available to the crew or others seems dumb. Once the novelty of NEW THING NEW THING wore off I doubt anyone would bother with something so cumbersome. Not to mention it doesn't really fit the normal aesthetic/theme of the station.

As something to just have in the code for badminnery and etc. though? Why not?

[paprika]

Fragnostic only plays sci and makes bombs so

[Aleph]

I'm all for it if this can be deconned and with the appropriate levels, can allow R&D to produce some sort of Plasma Rifle.

Why does everything you have to suggest have to directly benefit Science?

It's metal, wood, and gunpowder. Deconstructing it should remove levels of research because of how low-tech it is.

More on topic: making it randomly available to the crew or others seems dumb. Once the novelty of NEW THING NEW THING wore off I doubt anyone would bother with something so cumbersome. Not to mention it doesn't really fit the normal aesthetic/theme of the station.

As something to just have in the code for badminnery and etc. though? Why not?

I still say make it a rare artifact. An ammo cutoff on top of how hard it would be to get one should offset the high damage.

[Wizardjenkins66]

Should be able to saw it off for a Russian pistol.

[Jacough]

We do have a Derelect Russian station. Seems like it'd make sense for them to proudly display glorious Soviet rifle somewhere on their station

[Fragnostic]

Why does everything you have to suggest have to directly benefit Science?

Fragnostic only plays sci and makes bombs so

I do R&D before faffing about in Toxins, and it got really old to just decon some mech equipment or open tech storage. It's no longer a quest for levels. I don't want more challenge because rounds in Sybil are short, so doing anything !FUN! is hard, just rare things like this to decon.

And really, Pap? I played assistant a lot until I got jobbaned and I haven't made a TTV bomb for the longest. I've actually started playing Security recently and love it. Haven't been bitched about in OOC or called a shitcurity.

[Silavite]

Should be able to saw it off for a Russian pistol.

Nyet, tovarish. Space Pistol is best pistol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TP-82

[ExplosiveCrate]

If we add the ability to saw down the rifle it should make anyone standing near the gun when it fires catch fire, including the person who fired it.

[Steelpoint]

Over the course of 500 years we can make assumptions that ballistic weapons of the future use some form of advance magnetic acceleration in order to be far more effective in stopping and killing power.

One idea I have is that while Old Earth weapons (In this case the glorious Mosin Nagant) can still be lethal on humans, if fired on someone wearing armour it will deal almost negligible damage. We can assume that 500 years in defensive advances means that modern armour is capable of easily shrugging off weapons from the 21st century.

What this means is that "Old Earth" weapons have a tag where they deal only about 5 points of damage on a target wearing armour.

[qwert]

Over the course of 500 years we can make assumptions that ballistic weapons of the future use some form of advance magnetic acceleration in order to be far more effective in stopping and killing power.

One idea I have is that while Old Earth weapons (In this case the glorious Mosin Nagant) can still be lethal on humans, if fired on someone wearing armour it will deal almost negligible damage. We can assume that 500 years in defensive advances means that modern armour is capable of easily shrugging off weapons from the 21st century.

What this means is that "Old Earth" weapons have a tag where they deal only about 5 points of damage on a target wearing armour.

I thought, that spesslorewise one of NT features was having technology for energy weapons, while others have to use shittier gunpowder weaponry because they are not hightech enough for something more then revolver.

[Steelpoint]

There's no set lore on the difference between Ballistic and Energy weapons, at least for our lore.

In my mind I like to think that ballistic weapons of the 2500's use magnetic acceleration to achieve their deadliness, think of it as more of a railgun than a gunpowder weapon. I take inspiration from Xenonauts (Xcom inspired game) where after researching plasma weapons the final weapon tier is infact a weapon tier called MAG Guns which are even more powerful than the Alien weapons.

I could go on in thinking that SS13 energy weapons are a new research field, which would explain why Energy weapons cannot be reloaded or why most weapon research from RnD is laser based and not ballistic based.

[Miauw]

>guns use magnetic acceleration instead of gunpowder
>when you fire a gun, empty shell falls out

i think you're wrong

[qwert]

>guns use magnetic acceleration instead of gunpowder
>when you fire a gun, empty shell falls out

i think you're wrong

That 26 th century shell contains small oneshot particle accelerator , which starts up small singularity in shell, then little radiation collector converts the radiation into energy and sends it to the magnetic accelerators of revolver through some wireless 26 th century thing, so the gun fires. Then the shell ejects, meanwhile the shell bluespace teleportation device teleports the miniaturized singularity into random location of universe for safety.

Thats how you replace gunpoweder in 26th century.

[Fragnostic]

If it had a tech origin it'd probably be
Magnets: 5
Combat: 6
Data Theory: 4
This is a real thing. Gauss guns are near-silent, non-rifled, recoiless, electronic ballistic guns.
As of now, our means of spontaneously generating electricity at fast enough rate(safely) is the only real limitation to making this just as lethal as a traditional ballistic rifled gun. One would assume that In the future, this problem would be solved and that a power cell in the future can keep this gun powered for a very long time while the only real drawback would be the ammunition, some sort of steel penetrator in a magazine.

[Aleph]

The bolt action rifle would be still powerful, see the L4, but current 'combat doctrine' puts a heavy emphasis on rapid fire and stuns, which the rifle can do neither. Hell the Syndicate have a special 'blunt headed' .45 round that's developed just to knock a target down in a single shot just to match the e-guns

[miggles]

ballistic weapons already exist in spades in ss13, i dont know where the idea came from that they should be less effective or outdated. almost all of them do more damage than normal energy-based weapons.

[Steelpoint]

Hence why I put forward the idea of Magnetic Acceleration as to why Ballistic weapons are still relevant and powerful in the 2500's.

[miggles]

except every single example leads to proof that they're still just normal ballistic weapons using gunpowder and traditional mechanisms
cartridges look like normal cartridges, guns eject casings, on pistols the slide locks back when its empty, etc
used shotgun shells have visible powder residue, as well
i could go on but seriously, its pointless

body armor in the future doesnt seem to have any special qualities compared to modern day armor, either. they both look very similar and provide (what we can assume) are similar protection values.

[Steelpoint]

Using Xenonauts as a example, when research on Laser Guns was finished the Chief Scientist decided to mold the design to better emulate how traditional Ballistic weapons function. The reason being that it would be far easier to wield the newer Laser Weapons if they looked and acted similar to Ballistic Weapons.

Just because you've replaced the gunpowder with magnetic acceleration does not mean the operation of a firearm changes.

The whole reason I'm going on this tagent about the difference between a 19th century Weapon and a 26th century Weapon is to present my idea that the older weapons should deal very little damage to modern armour, this would mean we can more easily allow the existence of these older weapons as they would not be easily available guns that can dunk Security.

Also, saying that the 26th century armour is not better than 21st century armour because it looks similar is something I disagree with. The properties of armour can change even if the style of it does not.

[leibniz]

So does someone feel like coding any of this?

[Saintish]

In traditional sci-fi settings, ballistic weapons are used because they go through shields - one example being Star Wars. Just gonna pop in and say that.

EDIT: also Liebniz is right, who wants to code this? It could just use revolver code, I guess.
it's a great addition, even if it's only admin-spawnable

[Aleph]

So does someone feel like coding any of this?

It's just a shotgun codewise other than the stripper clip which could be taken from the revolver.

[miggles]

Using Xenonauts as a example, when research on Laser Guns was finished the Chief Scientist decided to mold the design to better emulate how traditional Ballistic weapons function. The reason being that it would be far easier to wield the newer Laser Weapons if they looked and acted similar to Ballistic Weapons.

Just because you've replaced the gunpowder with magnetic acceleration does not mean the operation of a firearm changes.

The whole reason I'm going on this tagent about the difference between a 19th century Weapon and a 26th century Weapon is to present my idea that the older weapons should deal very little damage to modern armour, this would mean we can more easily allow the existence of these older weapons as they would not be easily available guns that can dunk Security.

Also, saying that the 26th century armour is not better than 21st century armour because it looks similar is something I disagree with. The properties of armour can change even if the style of it does not.

but the properties havent changed, though. if you look at the armor values most of them dont have great bullet protection except for the bulletproof vest. the normal armor vest and the hos coat both only have 50% laser protection, meaning they are only capable of blocking half the damage of the most common projectile weapon on the station. this isn't taking into account the armor values on the jumpsuits, of course, but if you actually look at the armor values of the armor itself it speaks nothing for its "26th century quality"
also saying that our guns are totally magnetic based on a reference to an old scifi game is just grasping for straws, tbh. you can keep your headcanon, but at least realize there is almost nothing backing it up in game.
and i disagree that these weapons should be more common. there's only 2 on station by default, the bartender's shotgun, and the detective's pistol. they're special. and they can be very deadly, but usually they arent used for that purpose. arbitrarily putting more somewhere so that people have access to weapons and then making them shit against armor for some reason doesnt make sense. that's just promoting people to kill each other. compared to the revolver and shotgun, which both start with stun ammo, a bolt action rifle would probably use real ammo, which would be deadly. and if it used stun ammo, still, thats just another ranged stun for people to use.
if they were orderable from cargo, that would be much better. they'd basically fulfill the same purpose as a shotgun loaded with slugs, but with the caveat that they have more max ammo and load from clips, not shell-by-shell.