Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

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Scones
 
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Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Scones » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:15 am #49212

I got this idea a while ago, and testing it to see if people would use it. Actually, I'm still testing it. Everyone who I've asked ICly or otherwise seems to think it was a fantastic idea.

Anyways, the gist is that we removed the window between desks and re-positioned our Smart Storage unit there, so that people would not longer have to wade through game-crashing stacks of tricord to get to that one anti-tox pill. This is a quality of life improvement not only for those interacting with Chemistry, but for the Chemists themselves - Instead of putting your surplus and non-ordered things on the desk in a messy pile, they are automatically organized and easily dispensed via the machine.

In the attached images, me and my co-worker did end up removing the other window. I am not proposing that as part of the change, but I do think the presence of only one window allows one guy to handle people's demands while the other works on projects/mass-production.

Image

We took out the window and lower desk and replaced them. It worked pretty well, especially seeing as we could put things into the storage while standing in a spot that has access to both the Chemical Dispenser and Chem-master 3000

Image

Picture of the Smart Storage mid-way through the round. We saw decent use - Don't mind the assorted custom chemicals, they were for the most part medical mixes and drugs to satiate the masses.

Anyways, I'm curious to receive feedback on it: The only con that comes to mind is that you can made off with the storage in a few seconds if you bring a wrench. But, considering how large it is, it's rather hard and somewhat pointless to do so.
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby dezzmont » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:22 am #49213

I don't like the window removal because it kinda is a silly choice. Chemists tend to hunker down in their own work areas and there is no guarantee the guy who spawns top is more social, or even exists.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Zsword » Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:33 am #49238

To balance the thought out though, I did always think it was a little odd that the Smart Storage was Medbay access only. Moving it to be more upfront I think would be a nice change.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:44 am #49259

Please no. First of all, fridge is for MDs. Secondly, chemistry uses both windows all the time.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Alex Crimson » Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:55 am #49268

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Please no. First of all, fridge is for MDs. Secondly, chemistry uses both windows all the time.


This. The fridge is used to store chemicals for the Medbay staff. The Chemistry counters are used to give station personnel whatever chemicals they need. There is no reason at all to change this.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby lumipharon » Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:45 am #49286

Hey. Hey guys. Why not both?

Leave the current fridge and both desks, because they actually get used, and jam a 2nd fridge in their specifically for giving chems to the public.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Alex Crimson » Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:28 am #49293

Because a fridge stores stuff, whilst the rest of the station is supposed to ask for chemicals. I like the interaction. No reason to remove it.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Rhisereld » Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:35 pm #49337

I really like this idea, but the removal of a window is not a good move. As a chemist I like to focus on my own work in my own area, without having to worry about my (usually lazy and uncooperative) coworker.

Keep both windows, stick a smart fridge between them.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby lumipharon » Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:16 pm #49381

This is why I'm saying, leave it as it is now, but put a 2nd fridge in between the two desks - no one loses.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby ThatSlyFox » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:35 am #49435

lumipharon wrote:This is why I'm saying, leave it as it is now, but put a 2nd fridge in between the two desks - no one loses.

This.
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Please no. First of all, fridge is for MDs. Secondly, chemistry uses both windows all the time.

How often do MDs use the fridge? Not often.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Konork » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:26 am #49441

Alex Crimson wrote:Because a fridge stores stuff, whilst the rest of the station is supposed to ask for chemicals. I like the interaction. No reason to remove it.

Right now, there's two ways for chemicals to get out to the rest of the station. One is, as you mentioned, people asking for them. There is no reason why the public fridge would change this. The existence of a public fridge would not change what chemicals are available, or whether someone asks for them. The second is pills thrown out on the counter. And again, the existence of the public fridge isn't going to make the chemists make pills they weren't going to make before it got added. All it would do is keep all the pills in a more convenient menu rather than a messy blob.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby MisterPerson » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:01 am #49452

If you want something, ask the chemist. This just encourages silently making things and leaving them in the fridge for people to silently pick up. Heavily discourages RP.
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Rhisereld » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:47 am #49457

MisterPerson wrote:If you want something, ask the chemist. This just encourages silently making things and leaving them in the fridge for people to silently pick up. Heavily discourages RP.


There's no reason why having a public fridge would eliminate interaction between chemistry and the station. Chemists aren't telepaths; people will still need to ask for what they want.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:06 am #49470

ThatSlyFox wrote:How often do MDs use the fridge? Not often.

Assuming that's true, what exactly is your point?

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Alex Crimson » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:12 am #49471

Rhisereld wrote:
MisterPerson wrote:If you want something, ask the chemist. This just encourages silently making things and leaving them in the fridge for people to silently pick up. Heavily discourages RP.


There's no reason why having a public fridge would eliminate interaction between chemistry and the station. Chemists aren't telepaths; people will still need to ask for what they want.


You do not need to be telepathic to know what chemicals the station commonly asks for.

Im all for having a fridge to store stuff the Chemists make, but people should be required to ask for them over the counter, rather than having a convenient chemical vending machine stocked by Chemists.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby lumipharon » Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:09 pm #49486

MisterPerson wrote:If you want something, ask the chemist. This just encourages silently making things and leaving them in the fridge for people to silently pick up. Heavily discourages RP.


If you want something, ask the chemist. This just encourages silently making things and leaving them on the desks for people to silently pick up. Heavily discourages RP.

Literally the only difference a fridge would make, is that a:acid won't melt your 500 pills, and b: you wont have to alt click then scroll through piles of pills (or make the awful mistake or right clicking)that SOME chemists CHOOSE to make.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby MisterPerson » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:55 pm #49501

I'm all for a fridge, just not a fridge that the public can freely take from. Maybe like a dispenser that dumps them on the table in front or something, that would be fine.
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Alex Crimson » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:15 pm #49507

Ive always liked the idea of a machine that stores pills/bottles and requires an id to dispense them, then keeps a log of who used it to get what. But once again it removes the RP interaction.

You could always just replace the table between the chem machines with a fridge, so Chemists could easily store and dispense pills whenever needed.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby ThatSlyFox » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:57 pm #49520

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
ThatSlyFox wrote:How often do MDs use the fridge? Not often.

Assuming that's true, what exactly is your point?


My point is the fridge is currently useless. This would make it useful.

I also don't see how asking the chemist for acid(or anything) is RP.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:16 pm #49524

It's useful for storing chemicals and allowing medical personnel quick access to them.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Scones » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:36 pm #49527

To reiterate, I'm not pushing for window removal - That was just something that I happened to like and happened in a few of the rounds I tested it in

This is not to remove RP interaction. It is a piss-poor excuse for an 'RP interaction' when somebody comes and starts screeching MUH TRICORD at your until you climb over the table and force-feed it to them
RP interaction with chemists is making small talk with Botany about what plants they plan on using mutagen with - RP interaction with chemists is doctors explaining a recent outbreak of injuries of a certain nature and why they need X

The fridge's purpose is to prevent those horribly messy stacks on the tables, which I really detest. Ideally, the Chemist would stock it with whatever he feels is needed when there aren't specific requests, so that when he dies/isn't there, the thing has a massive well-organized stock of things that is not just a titanic pile of capsules on a metal desk.

As for the people claiming the fridge is for MDs... I wish you guys played MD when I was Chemist, because shit, the lack of MDs using the fridge is part of why I wanted to move it. I've never seen a single one (in MANY MANY rounds of chem) come to the fridge to even CHECK if it has chemicals. Fuck, I've even said over Medical that I've stocked it full of pills. These mysterious fridge-using MDs are not my concern in this suggestion because I never see them. This is either because:
1.) The fridge goes SO UNDERUSED by Chemists that most MDs don't bother to check it
2.) There are shaky relations between Chem and their department because more Chemists than you'd think just want to make bombs and never help cryo or do anything remotely useful
3.) Most MDs don't even know what that mysterious white device by the internal chemistry desk even does
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:32 pm #49536

If you want people to grab whatever chems you make, put them on the tables. That's what chemistry does all the time, anyway. It's not obvious from the first glance that there's anything useful in the fridge, piles of pills work much better anyway. Furthermore, chemist can put gallons of space lube (or any harmful chemical) in there without anyone noticing and then good luck finding who exactly put it in there and how many assistants took it from there. Harmful chemicals on the table will bring the attention much easier.

Is it deconstructable? If not, it will serve as impenetrable wall, which isn't great in an of itself.

So, it's pretty bad for public distribution of chems, because people just won't know that there's stuff inside. In your example chemistry is really enclosed and has this tiny window, which isn't great. Currently it serves its purpose of storing chems. If you really really want MDs to get chems, even though it's not really your problem, fucking tell them to get chems. If you really really want people to have access to millions of pills, put them on table or something. It will do the job much better, BECAUSE of those messy stacks that attract attention.

I'd rather not just plain admit that our medical system is about piles of pills that heal anything whatsoever and just say that "okay, MDs are useless so instead of trying to make them useful we will make them even more useless". As far as I'm concerned, as chemist you should be making chems, not delivering them.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:53 pm #49542

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:So, it's pretty bad for public distribution of chems, because people just won't know that there's stuff inside.

Snack machines, drink machines, sec handcuff dispenser, the like 3 different tool dispenser types, pretty much every vending machine.
Lockers, crates, packages.
Backpacks, belts, internals boxes.
Botany/Chef's storage fridge.

You mean I have to walk up and check if these things have things in them?
How is right clicking on a pile of pills and locking up byond somehow better than a fridge with everything listed in it?
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Alex Crimson » Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:54 pm #49543

Medical doctors have very little need for the stuff you put in the fridge because there just isnt much use for the chems you make anymore. Its easier to just throw someone into a Sleeper and inject them with whatever they need. Its easier to place a crit player in a cryo tube than heal them with packs/ointment. Even special chemicals can mostly be found in upgraded sleepers, or is just so rarely needed that it doesnt matter.

Most of the time i see Chemistry being asked to make Unstable Mutagen for Viro/Botany, Hypospray refills for the CMO, Sulph Acid for Robo/Science and Ammonia for the Janitor. That isnt including the random people who come in need of healing pills or Bartender looking to make special drinks. If you are not seeing this, then you are either doing it wrong or lying. Normal Medical staff will not ask for chemicals because they do not need your chemicals.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:04 pm #49545

Saegrimr wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:So, it's pretty bad for public distribution of chems, because people just won't know that there's stuff inside.

Snack machines, drink machines, sec handcuff dispenser, the like 3 different tool dispenser types, pretty much every vending machine.
Lockers, crates, packages.
Backpacks, belts, internals boxes.
Botany/Chef's storage fridge.

You mean I have to walk up and check if these things have things in them?
How is right clicking on a pile of pills and locking up byond somehow better than a fridge with everything listed in it?

Everything you listed has the set of items that everyone expects to be there. I don't see how backpacks and belts fit into "public distribution".
Saegrimr wrote:How is right clicking on a pile of pills and locking up byond somehow better than a fridge with everything listed in it?

Uh, some of us know that alt-click is a great feature that does exactly that. Lists items without locking up byond.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Saegrimr » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:41 pm #49556

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Uh, some of us know that alt-click is a great feature that does exactly that. Lists items without locking up byond.

You have to get up next to the tile for alt-click to work.

If you can do that, you can open up a fridge.
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:52 pm #49572

The point is not accessibility, the point is attracting attention. Huge pile of pills does that. Fridge that is the same all the time doesn't.

I mean, I'm sure if you throw a bunch of pills on medbay floor, MDs will also use them more often. Or medbay tables, for example.

So yeah, I don't think you should be using the fridge to distribute stuff. It is a very good storage unit though.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Raven776 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:55 pm #49573

The fridge is more for specialty pills (I NEED ALKYSINE!!1!!1!) than for tricord and whatnot... But if you're the kind of chemist who makes a massive pile of tricord or DD and ditches, the fridge would be great to make sure you've got extra bottles of hypospray mix for the CMO or syringes of something stored up for later use.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Raven776 » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:59 pm #49576

Saegrimr wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Uh, some of us know that alt-click is a great feature that does exactly that. Lists items without locking up byond.

You have to get up next to the tile for alt-click to work.

If you can do that, you can open up a fridge.


Technically you can also hover your mouse over something without right clicking and figure out what it is, but that would require the pill you're looking for to be on top.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby lumipharon » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:12 pm #49593

Saying people 'won't know' there are chems in the fridge is like saying the chef 'won't know' that the botanist is storing his produce in their fridge instead of dumping it on the table.

Also ironically the only time I see people check the current chem fridge, is when I make shit for the viro and specifically tell him I put it in the fridge, or when randoms come into medbay, and check the fridge for shit like plasma (I stopped storing plasma in that fridge after assistants kept coming along and taking it).

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:10 pm #49750

lumipharon wrote:Saying people 'won't know' there are chems in the fridge is like saying the chef 'won't know' that the botanist is storing his produce in their fridge instead of dumping it on the table.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like chef has any other choice though. It's pretty likely that a pile of tomatoes on the table will be noticed far more often than the same pile of tomatoes in the fridge, since that requires regular checking of the said bridge. Chef just doesn't have any other choice is all.

Anyway, I think fridges should be ID locked and used for storage. It's pretty silly to have pharmacy open to everybody.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Alex Crimson » Thu Dec 11, 2014 12:24 pm #49752

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
lumipharon wrote:Anyway, I think fridges should be ID locked and used for storage. It's pretty silly to have pharmacy open to everybody.


Yeah i agree. Either lock it for everyone except medical-level access, or move it inside the Chemistry area so random people cannot steal stuff from it.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby dezzmont » Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:08 pm #49780

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
lumipharon wrote:Saying people 'won't know' there are chems in the fridge is like saying the chef 'won't know' that the botanist is storing his produce in their fridge instead of dumping it on the table.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not like chef has any other choice though. It's pretty likely that a pile of tomatoes on the table will be noticed far more often than the same pile of tomatoes in the fridge, since that requires regular checking of the said bridge. Chef just doesn't have any other choice is all.

Anyway, I think fridges should be ID locked and used for storage. It's pretty silly to have pharmacy open to everybody.


A sprite change could probably fix this. Like a red light on the fridge that flashes for one minute to herald the arival of fresh produce.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:27 pm #49793

Or you could just put pills on the table and shove bottles into medibots if you want to distribute it (for some reason).

Seriously, it's a non-issue. And I definitely don't want the window removed. I also want a storage facility that isn't available for every damn clown.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby dezzmont » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:16 pm #49805

I was talking about the idea of the smart fridge needing that.

It would make slightly less sense for medical because medical is a place either of comings and goings or people staying in the back for a long time.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby ThatSlyFox » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:43 pm #50121

Lo6a4evskiy wrote: I also want a storage facility that isn't available for every damn clown.


Why? If you are going to store stuff in a public storage facility it would be helpful healing shit. If a chemist wants to be dumb and store something like lube or mutagen then yea his fault. Not a real reason to reject this idea.

Alex Crimson wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
lumipharon wrote:Anyway, I think fridges should be ID locked and used for storage. It's pretty silly to have pharmacy open to everybody.


Yeah i agree. Either lock it for everyone except medical-level access, or move it inside the Chemistry area so random people cannot steal stuff from it.

No point in placing it there then. It is also not stealing if you put it in a public area.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Lo6a4evskiy » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:04 pm #50341

ThatSlyFox wrote:No point in placing it there then.

I'm sorry, how thick are you. It's been said multiple times that some of us prefer it to be a STORAGE. A fucking STORAGE is the point of it. Not shitty distribution device. Not a place for clown to take all the pills and space them. A place where I can put fucking chemicals. Because bottles are a pain to manage in big numbers.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby ColonicAcid » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:18 pm #50346

ThatSlyFox wrote:
Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
ThatSlyFox wrote:How often do MDs use the fridge? Not often.

Assuming that's true, what exactly is your point?


My point is the fridge is currently useless. This would make it useful.

I also don't see how asking the chemist for acid(or anything) is RP.

it's about as much rp you get on sybil
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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Loonikus » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:40 am #50842

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
ThatSlyFox wrote:No point in placing it there then.

I'm sorry, how thick are you. It's been said multiple times that some of us prefer it to be a STORAGE. A fucking STORAGE is the point of it. Not shitty distribution device. Not a place for clown to take all the pills and space them. A place where I can put fucking chemicals. Because bottles are a pain to manage in big numbers.


Why not have two smart storages? One for medbay use and the other for public use. I was the other chemist in the round Cecily was in and having a public smart storage worked fine.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Perakp » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:01 pm #50993

I could see there being a drug dispenser where you can receive drugs that have been assigned to you with your ID card, integrated with the medical records, and non-restricted drugs that anyone can vend from it. CMO would need to have some way of remotely destroying any space drugs/lube that the chemists put in the vending machine, and a full log of what drugs have been put in and vended out and by whom.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby FudgePucker » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:01 pm #52630

As someone who mainly plays botanist I would enjoy having a mini fridge by the window of chemistry.

Lets say Chemistry wants some chili peppers to extract from.
I grow some for him, pick them up with my plant back and walk next door.
Now here is where things start to fall apart, I have to give him one of the only five plant bags in botany, or I have to open the plant bag and slowly click on a pepper, click on the desk, click on a pepper, click on the desk, click on the pepper, click on the desk, click on the pepper, click on the desk, click on the pepper, click on the desk, click on the pepper, click on the desk.

If the smart fridge was right there all I would have to do is put the plant bag into active hand and click on the fridge. It's just as easy as giving food to the chef!

The issue with it reducing interaction between characters is reduced by this between the chemist and the botanist is actually reduced in this one case. I would have more spare time to small talk with the chemist before I had to go deal with managing plants if I could just use a smart fridge. My interactions with chemists range from none because I am just a tool to him, or bros5evah because we both enjoy making, taking, and distributing drugs for the station, the addition of a smart fridge wouldn't change that. The chemist wouldn't be able to put mutagen in the smart fridge due to it being a lethal toxin anyways, so I would still have to ask him formally for it.

Chemists use their desks half of the time to put a shitload of pills on there that you have to right click and lag your game to grab the one you want anyways, the fridge would let them actually use their desks for something other than general purpose pills, and would give a handy menu to select from, instead of a game crashing right click drop down menu.

I can't see any downsides (from my perspective) to having a smart fridge right there.

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Re: Chemistry - Moving the Smart Storage

Postby Balut » Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:10 am #52660

MisterPerson wrote:If you want something, ask the chemist. This just encourages silently making things and leaving them in the fridge for people to silently pick up. Heavily discourages RP.
"Yeah, they're kick-ass robot pilots!" "But they sing and dance!" "They launch from a secret base..." "...that's right under the opera house!"
Sakura Wars

Spoiler:
Malkevin wrote:
No no, I don't want to be surrounded by spergs

An0n3 wrote:
Why are you here then?

http://sam.wileycomputerworks.com/SS13/


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