/tg/Station 13

When syndicate agents are tasked with stealing a sliver of SM or uranium core they get special tools and containers - they are pretty much gimmicks.
But I think there is a strong case why "stealing functioning AI" should have a special tool:

1. Even without communication enabled AI has access to binary channel(makes no sense btw) - it is pain in the ass for a syndicate agent and it can lead to boring rounds when agent simply steals AI and lives the station till the round end - otherwise AI will keep on saying to borgs where it is.
2. AI can commit suicide to prevent syndicate agent from stealing it because giving functional AI to Syndicate is obvious way to cause human harm on mass scale. But then this explicitly forbidden by the server laws. I guess as a Band-Aid solution for the salty antags. It makes no sense from IK standpoint and even worse AI can explicitly ask condom what to do in the case if AI gets abducted and if condom says that "getting abducted will cause human harm" it means that condom can be baned? Or AI can be banned? Or both will be banned? Or no one will be banned because it's a fairly stupid law? I guess it depends on admin.

To streamline it all, eliminate the gray area and make ridiculous laws obsolete I propose giving to the syndicate agent (at round start) a tool to safely box AI like it's done with SM sliver or uranium core. The tool (intellicard or intellicard holder) will store AI and prevent it from communicating with anyone. You can either allow AI to suicide(ghost) while it will count as a "functional AI" inside the holder - to make it less frustrating for the AI players. Or prevent AI from suiciding at all so he'll be kinda fairly limited version of pAI.

The thread you were looking to post this in was. This one.

Is it really so hard to just subvert the AI and order it to allow you to card it?

With a subverted AI, you can even permit it to have the ability to communicate and interact with stuff around you, giving you a versatile tool to aid you in your traitoring by ensuring you have what effectively amounts to all access in your pocket and a useful ally. Also grant it a shell so it can do stuff beyond your pocket if necessary.

If you think it mean to force an AI into this position, just remember that you don't have to torment the player in question. You can actually make it an ally to your schemes.

I think the fact that this caveat exist in the rules:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules

Do not self-terminate to prevent a traitor from completing the "Steal a functioning AI" objective.

Shows that there is a problem. And if it can get fixed with in game mechanic why not? Solid game mechanics always better than rules used to patch holes in them.


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zxaber wrote:Is it really so hard to just subvert the AI and order it to allow you to card it?

The problem with subverted AI is that it can get easily reset, especially if someone notice that the core is missing. Anyway if you think that antag should subvert or in any other way make AI cooperative so it wont suicide. Then I think the caveat should be removed?

I think the idea is pretty sound and I do agree with it to some extent. There probably should be minor changes:

* Card holder can disable or enable the AI's ability to communicate - if the AI is being cool, not a problem, if the AI not being cool, disable their comms and forget about them.
* Carded AI should not be able to affect the outcome of the objective in any way (even if somebody purges the AI and uploads a law for it to kill itself).

From my personal experience there have been cases where the AI simply suicides (which is a no-no), AI starts telling on you over :b (and there is nothing you can do about it) or AI is being played by a normal person and they cooperate.

TheMythicGhost wrote:The thread you were looking to post this in was. This one.

Very cringe reply. His concern has some merit. Steal the AI is arguably the most annoying objective to get for a lot of reasons including the ones he stated.

Xeroxemnas wrote:

TheMythicGhost wrote:The thread you were looking to post this in was. This one.

Very cringe reply. His concern has some merit. Steal the AI is arguably the most annoying objective to get for a lot of reasons including the ones he stated.

It's literally the easiest traitor objective currently ingame aside from "die a glorious death." Not only have I never had a problem with the real station AI acting against my interests (just be nice and they'll help you tator it up. People love playing tense antag rounds), but you can build your own AI so you never even have to set foot in the AI sat to get the objective done.

All you need is science access and you basically greentext by default.

Sandshark808 wrote:

Xeroxemnas wrote:

TheMythicGhost wrote:The thread you were looking to post this in was. This one.

Very cringe reply. His concern has some merit. Steal the AI is arguably the most annoying objective to get for a lot of reasons including the ones he stated.

It's literally the easiest traitor objective currently ingame aside from "die a glorious death." Not only have I never had a problem with the real station AI acting against my interests (just be nice and they'll help you tator it up. People love playing tense antag rounds), but you can build your own AI so you never even have to set foot in the AI sat to get the objective done.

All you need is science access and you basically greentext by default.

You actually need robo access. It's a bit harder to get. At Least HOP won't give it to you in the most cases.

Xeroxemnas wrote:

TheMythicGhost wrote:The thread you were looking to post this in was. This one.

Very cringe reply. His concern has some merit. Steal the AI is arguably the most annoying objective to get for a lot of reasons including the ones he stated.

It's one of the easiest fucking objectives in the game. I'd rather have to steal an AI than the Captain's laser, and since the OP mentioned gimmicks and those other theft objectives, I fucking hate how they force me to spawn with a box that screams I'm a dirty fucking traitor. Those kits really should be 0 TC uplink items.

OFQ wrote: You actually need robo access. It's a bit harder to get. At Least HOP won't give it to you in the most cases.

No you don't, you can print everything you need to build an AI in Science/Engineering and if you need an MMI you can print one in the abandonded mechbay in maint. Generally nobody except some scientists will care about trespassers in RnD so you can just hack in or tell the AI to let you in and print your shit.

OFQ wrote: You actually need robo access. It's a bit harder to get. At Least HOP won't give it to you in the most cases.

You can print positronics at the science lathe.

The problem isn't acquiring an intellicard. The problem is what comes after you card the AI.

At the moment the AIs can range from helpful to outright obnoxious. Aside from that having a syndicate specific item, which can be easily identified by the security is an added bonus as 9 out of 10 times, when a head is an antag nobody can touch them as its normal for them to have carded AIs on them fnr.

Adding this item would benefit the gameplay in multiple ways - a) the antags can choose when and where the AI gets to communicate as it is at their mercy, b) head AI theft is no longer auto-greentext, c) consistency and d) added tension, unless you get a storage implant.

Sandshark808 wrote:

OFQ wrote: You actually need robo access. It's a bit harder to get. At Least HOP won't give it to you in the most cases.

You can print positronics at the science lathe.

You need AI board and (preferably laws) they are available only at robo.

You can buy a hacked law board, and there is a spare AI upload board in the tech secure storage. There are in-game ways to manage this objective, and that's the whole point of having antag objectives; using the in-game tools to your advantage. The only reason the SM Sliver and Plutonium Core objectives give you a box of tools is because there is literally no other way to get your objective otherwise.

As an aside, I'd be all for removing the ability for AIs to suicide verb in general. Usually AIs only use the suicide button when a law demands it, which is an OOC action in itself, and also marks the player as a suicide (which is an OOC punishment); neither of which should be required options for an IC law. AI suicides would be simply shutting off power (or having a borg come and do the deed), and a carded AI would be unable to suicide.

OFQ wrote:

Sandshark808 wrote:

OFQ wrote: You actually need robo access. It's a bit harder to get. At Least HOP won't give it to you in the most cases.

You can print positronics at the science lathe.

You need AI board and (preferably laws) they are available only at robo.

Buy one with your TC my guy. It only costs 9 and you get to have them work at Ion Law levels of precedence. Or just buy a toolbox and hack your way in.