Loss conditions for traitors based on maintaining stealth/discouraging murderboning?

[Deepwoods]

I feel it's a bit screwy that someone sent out to covertly kill someone can blow the station to pieces and cause a mass-casualty event. What are thoughts on creative loss conditions discouraging havoc for some traitor rulesets?

[TheMythicGhost]

I feel it's a bit screwy that someone sent out to covertly kill someone can blow the station to pieces and cause a mass-casualty event. What are thoughts on creative loss conditions discouraging havoc for some traitor rulesets?

Di...did you get inspired to post this based on the NTR Hut thread about a paradise traitor getting the bannu for murderboning?

That said, (though this may be a shitty idea), power up the next round's security slightly more (officers have certain implants now, or heavier armors available to them immediately). Other than that, there isn't really much you can do in the way of de-incentivizing murderboning outside of legislative action (making rules or policies) against it, but that's a very slick slope.

[nianjiilical]

youd probably have better luck with carrot over stick philosophy by giving traitors bonus objectives to not murderbone that aren't required for greentext

the problem is how do you detect/enforce it? is it feasibly possible to tell whether the station exploded because of the traitor or someone else? if the traitor has an object to not directly murder anybody can he still plasmaflood and let people choke?

[Reyn]

Thing is, sometimes murderbone is necessary, just out of merit of almost everyone being out for your head on a silver platter as soon as you're discovered to be, or are SUSPECTED to be, traitor. There's already a punishment for fucking up stealth and not being GOOD at combat, and that's getting fucking lynched by the tide. Plus, even if you try to stealth, something will often fuck you over.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Brappe

[PKPenguin321]

Making antags non-interactive is shit when they're supposed to be the driving conflict of the round, and this is especially evident with traitors. Always has been. The meme of "uh oh I got a steal objective time to grab a slime extract then hide in a locker near the escape pods for 40 minutes" is a real thing, and rounds where all your traitors are AFK in a locker the whole time are boring rounds.

[Sandshark808]

Making antags non-interactive is shit when they're supposed to be the driving conflict of the round, and this is especially evident with traitors. Always has been. The meme of "uh oh I got a steal objective time to grab a slime extract then hide in a locker near the escape pods for 40 minutes" is a real thing, and rounds where all your traitors are AFK in a locker the whole time are boring rounds.

Yep. Also, "stealth antags" without a gimmick are absolutely broken overpowered and not particularly interesting to play against. Let's take stealth nukies for example: if the nuclear operatives get onto the station decked out in gamer gear, with one guy using AP sniper rounds to instakill the AI to prevent detection, the bomb is often detonated before anyone even knows they arrived. That's not very interesting for station personnel, and it's often pretty uninteresting for the nukies too.

That doesn't mean you should go on a Dornan-style desword rampage every time you get traitor or op, but take some risks and try to enjoy your limited opportunity to use any tool at your disposal for your objectives.

[Reyn]

If a traitor is running about killing people for no good reason and isn't using an absolutely busted meta item (Like Desword and possibly carp) Or some abomniable fucking tc trade item (COUGH COUGH THAT ONE FUCKING 600% CAPACITY HYPERKINETIC ACCELERATOR EKAT GOT WHICH COULD FIRE RAPIDLY AND HARDCRITTED ON TWO SHOTS, AND WAS MORE OR LESS HITSCAN, AND THATS IN STATION ATMOSPHERE), It usually takes some degree of skill to fight a lot of people without resorting to stealth.

Of course, there is also the flipside of traitors killing people who are not involved in any ways, which do NOT include validhunters, as of validhunters being a threat, or other potential threats, OR people who could be in the way of you doing your gimmicks, who refuse to back down or run. However, I will admit, most traitors have all the reason to interperet ANYONE as being a fucking threat.

Murderbone, as long as the person isnt using absolutely broken to hell shit which makes them nigh invincible, Is actually something which requires a decent ammount of skill. Additionally, stealth can easily be fucked over by sec fuckery or just random people.

Now i'm having metal gear solid 3 flashbacks.

[TheMythicGhost]

There's really no viable coding way to de-incentivize murderboning. Even if you removed all the antag gear, a person would still murderbone with available crew content, and failing that maybe even with a fucking fire extinguisher, or just the absolutely broken systems (atmospherics, toxins, xenobio, etc).

Even if there was some downside to mass murdering folks outside of a hijack objective, you'd then introduce a different issue of people baiting others to kill them to punish that person. The problem exists more so in relation to policies and rules that COULD be implemented but not necessarily should be implemented.

[Shadowflame909]

Baiting security to kill an assistant with forged evidence is a classic ss13 tactic..

we need a classic ss13 tactics thread.

[OFQ]

Memetext > greentext I would never jeopardize my Atmosia or Engytopia memetext for the sace of sweaty greentext.

Trying to steal condom medal or some other crap and risking getting caught by a random shitcurty passerby or a starcraft nerd that plays AI while you can spend this time voring entire station with a controlled Singuloth or doing fusion flood???

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Also syndicate fluff explicitly emphasizes that 1. Killing other syndicate nerds is ok. 2. any collateral damage to Nanotrasen property/employees is greatly appreciated. If anything this blood bros meme and other team antags already kinda nerfs murderbone.