A Look at Mid-Round Antags
Posted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 4:55 am
This is an interesting topic I've been thinking about after seeing some PR that wanted to buff Slaughter Demon event spawns. Basically, after the antag freeze is over, I think it'd be worthwhile to take a look at our current midround antags and see which ones are lacking, and then bring them up to snuff. After some consideration, I've come up with some expectations and whatnot on how midround antags should be categorized, and how they can be determined as good or bad. This comes in the form of Major Midround Antagonists and Minor Midround Antagonists.
Major Midround Antagonists
Major midround antagonists are midrounds which pose a great threat themselves by existing. Major midround antagonists are generally noted for having more than capable kill power, and the ability to end the round or derail it so heavily the crew has to call the shuttle. Generally speaking, if the antag is capable of taking a player out of the round completely, they fall under this category. The midrounds I would classify under this would be:
- Lone Op
- Blob
- Xenomorph
- Nightmare
- Spider
- Space Ninja
- Slaughter Demon
- Space Dragon
- Swarmers
Minor Midround Antagonists
Minor midround antagonists are mid-rounds that exist to raise the current stakes on the station. These antagonists aren't able to directly end lives or harm crew to a great extent, nor able to end the round on their terms. They tend to be accentuate the current threats more so than being an outright threat themselves. Even if these antags do manage to kill someone, they generally don't kill many and don't take them out of the round permanently. The midrounds I would classify under this would be:
- Abductors
- Revenant
- Morph
- Pirates
- Sentient Disease
- Creep
Generally, I believe each of these follows most of the rules of the base categories I listed them under. The ones which tend to not follow the formula as much tend to be the ones which end up being bad. Now, the ones I believe have problems:
Xenomorphs: Xenomorphs are capable of taking people out of the round (though each death generally creates a new ghost role), but are incapable of ending a round even if they were to somehow decimate the station. When they don't get absolutely cucked by the station, which they generally do, they can lead to a long period where the shuttle never gets called, essentially keeping a round going that's already over. They're also heavily stun-based, with the scout tackling you and having extremely memey speed, the other forms having stunning spit, and the larger ones having a tail whip. They could probably use some end-game goal to fix this, and perhaps some touchups to their general gameplay, considering they're generally non-threatening until they gain the advantage, and then become extremely threatening, but they usually get murked due to their heavy reliance on setting up proper nests and how easy said nests are to invade and destroy.
Nightmare: Nightmare is essentially a Minor antag with the kill power of a major antag in the right situation, with no method to end the round. On a functioning station with lighting, staying out of maint will generally prevent you from ever being affected by this antag. If he comes into a lit area, he's going to come in with some sort of noise, giving any nearby crew enough time to vacate the area. However, on a station with dysfunctional lighting, the Nightmare essentially becomes as deadly as a Slaughter Demon, but with the ability to instantly phase in and out of reality without needing blood. I'm unsure how you'd really go about fixing him, considering he's in such an odd spot, but perhaps an overarching goal would help set him on a better path.
Spiders: The only midround antagonist generated from traitors, these guys have been a hot topic of controversy. They're essentially a better form of xenomorph, starting in xenobiology, they have all the monkeys they need to take over the station provided for them the moment they're sentient. Once the first set of eggs hatches, the station has already lost the battle, making the only counter to this antag being someone keeping an eye on the xenobiologist who makes them. With forms which boast great physical damage and toxin damage (which due to Cobbychems, is much harder to deal with now), spiders also boast insane numbers, and killing one spider will just mean another one of the endless hordes will be right there in a few seconds, piloted by the same ghost as the last one. As a bonus to this already great kit, any crew that dies to a spider will probably immediately start being one, meaning fighting them off ramps up heavily as they kill crew. While they have access to more tactful gameplay options such as web placement and smashing lights and APCS, they don't even have to use them because of how strong unga bungaing is. As odd as it sounds, they might be better off as their own natural antagonist than something any xenobiologist can pull off, or some rework to their overwhelming nature might be desirable. While some have suggested not allowing them to lay eggs from monkeys as a nerf, that would likely ruin them to the point of being useless, so some serious thinking would be needed to change them into something fun for both the spiders and the crew.
Space Ninja: As cool as they are, Space Ninjas just exist to ruin some people's days. They have a pretty loaded kit, and a robust ninja should have no problem with dispatching anyone in their way. They commonly come with objectives that take people out of the round, and most of the crew don't have the tools to really stop a Space Ninja from fucking them over. They're a cool concept, but their kill objectives aren't fun at all to be other on the side of. Could definitely use a more interesting overarching objective which makes the station as a whole concerned about them, instead of nobody caring because you're probably not his target, right?
Slaughter Demon: While slaughter demon is generally more acceptable during a wizard round, they can actually spawn extremely rarely past the hour mark. This rarity is well understood considering their entire gameplay is no fun for the crew at large. If you just happen to be near any blood source (which tends to be quite common in this game), the slaughter demon can pop out and fuck you up. No and, ifs, or buts about it, unless you're toting a shotty for the very second this fucker happens to be upon you. His speed coming out of a blood source and crazy damage-dealing guarantees death to most, and once he takes you under, your body is permanently destroyed, so you won't be playing again that round unless you take up a ghost role. Slaughter Demon at the very least should drop his victims on death like the Laughter Demon at the very least, though much, much more would need to change to make him acceptable enough not to spawn in once a year. I personally don't think it's impossible, but it would basically ask for a drastically different goal than murderboning everything.
Space Dragon: Space dragon is a guaranteed shuttle call, due to his destructive abilities. Being able to move decently fast, space walk, and smash r-walls allows him to destroy the station with ease and quickly bring a decent station to the point of no return. In combat, space dragon is 50% resistant to sec's most common weapon, lasers, and generally requires less common weaponry to take down. However, he's brought down quickly by any shotgun, and generally isn't a threat to anyone wearing a suit with fire resistance. But, if he does kill you, you'll be swiftly gibbed, leaving you dead for a round which is almost certain to not go for much longer. His main balancing factor is that he only rarely comes to fuck you up, and a clueless player controlling him is an easy slaughter. I'd say that Space Dragon needs to be less destructive, not gib people, have his stats adjusted, and then given an overarching goal which can end the round if he manages to win.
Morph: The morph is an extremely cool gimmick, but lacks much substance behind its cool power. All it ever has to do is eat people, and while it lacks the power to be a major midround antagonist, it's survival sort of dictates it eats people and then keeps them out of the round for as long as it can. The core elements of the morph are fun with disguising and whatnot, but it really needs something more to it than just that, as a fun design like this deserves something better than it currently has.
I mostly find it interesting that the only real problems I perceive lie mostly the major antags, and the majority of them too, with Blob and Lone Op being the only ones exempt, though it isn't that surprising. Being able to end players' rounds should cause some sort of end condition, and overall the major side antags could learn a thing or two from how the blob generally plays out. The blob is a threat to the station as a whole, not entirely too overwhelming and ends the round if he wins. The only thing about the blob which could be considered bad is that the blob might be a tad underpowered, though with any other threat present it ends to be much more threatening. I think the blob works as a good standard for the other midround antags to follow, and I think adjusting the other major midround antags to follow it's structure would help reduce salt and increase the enjoyability of these spawns, and maybe allow for their spawn rates to be bumped up when they get changed. However, I want know, what does everyone else think? Could be disagreeing with the points I make in the OP, or perhaps sharing an opinion about one of the midround antags I didn't cover.
Major Midround Antagonists
Major midround antagonists are midrounds which pose a great threat themselves by existing. Major midround antagonists are generally noted for having more than capable kill power, and the ability to end the round or derail it so heavily the crew has to call the shuttle. Generally speaking, if the antag is capable of taking a player out of the round completely, they fall under this category. The midrounds I would classify under this would be:
- Lone Op
- Blob
- Xenomorph
- Nightmare
- Spider
- Space Ninja
- Slaughter Demon
- Space Dragon
- Swarmers
Minor Midround Antagonists
Minor midround antagonists are mid-rounds that exist to raise the current stakes on the station. These antagonists aren't able to directly end lives or harm crew to a great extent, nor able to end the round on their terms. They tend to be accentuate the current threats more so than being an outright threat themselves. Even if these antags do manage to kill someone, they generally don't kill many and don't take them out of the round permanently. The midrounds I would classify under this would be:
- Abductors
- Revenant
- Morph
- Pirates
- Sentient Disease
- Creep
Generally, I believe each of these follows most of the rules of the base categories I listed them under. The ones which tend to not follow the formula as much tend to be the ones which end up being bad. Now, the ones I believe have problems:
Xenomorphs: Xenomorphs are capable of taking people out of the round (though each death generally creates a new ghost role), but are incapable of ending a round even if they were to somehow decimate the station. When they don't get absolutely cucked by the station, which they generally do, they can lead to a long period where the shuttle never gets called, essentially keeping a round going that's already over. They're also heavily stun-based, with the scout tackling you and having extremely memey speed, the other forms having stunning spit, and the larger ones having a tail whip. They could probably use some end-game goal to fix this, and perhaps some touchups to their general gameplay, considering they're generally non-threatening until they gain the advantage, and then become extremely threatening, but they usually get murked due to their heavy reliance on setting up proper nests and how easy said nests are to invade and destroy.
Nightmare: Nightmare is essentially a Minor antag with the kill power of a major antag in the right situation, with no method to end the round. On a functioning station with lighting, staying out of maint will generally prevent you from ever being affected by this antag. If he comes into a lit area, he's going to come in with some sort of noise, giving any nearby crew enough time to vacate the area. However, on a station with dysfunctional lighting, the Nightmare essentially becomes as deadly as a Slaughter Demon, but with the ability to instantly phase in and out of reality without needing blood. I'm unsure how you'd really go about fixing him, considering he's in such an odd spot, but perhaps an overarching goal would help set him on a better path.
Spiders: The only midround antagonist generated from traitors, these guys have been a hot topic of controversy. They're essentially a better form of xenomorph, starting in xenobiology, they have all the monkeys they need to take over the station provided for them the moment they're sentient. Once the first set of eggs hatches, the station has already lost the battle, making the only counter to this antag being someone keeping an eye on the xenobiologist who makes them. With forms which boast great physical damage and toxin damage (which due to Cobbychems, is much harder to deal with now), spiders also boast insane numbers, and killing one spider will just mean another one of the endless hordes will be right there in a few seconds, piloted by the same ghost as the last one. As a bonus to this already great kit, any crew that dies to a spider will probably immediately start being one, meaning fighting them off ramps up heavily as they kill crew. While they have access to more tactful gameplay options such as web placement and smashing lights and APCS, they don't even have to use them because of how strong unga bungaing is. As odd as it sounds, they might be better off as their own natural antagonist than something any xenobiologist can pull off, or some rework to their overwhelming nature might be desirable. While some have suggested not allowing them to lay eggs from monkeys as a nerf, that would likely ruin them to the point of being useless, so some serious thinking would be needed to change them into something fun for both the spiders and the crew.
Space Ninja: As cool as they are, Space Ninjas just exist to ruin some people's days. They have a pretty loaded kit, and a robust ninja should have no problem with dispatching anyone in their way. They commonly come with objectives that take people out of the round, and most of the crew don't have the tools to really stop a Space Ninja from fucking them over. They're a cool concept, but their kill objectives aren't fun at all to be other on the side of. Could definitely use a more interesting overarching objective which makes the station as a whole concerned about them, instead of nobody caring because you're probably not his target, right?
Slaughter Demon: While slaughter demon is generally more acceptable during a wizard round, they can actually spawn extremely rarely past the hour mark. This rarity is well understood considering their entire gameplay is no fun for the crew at large. If you just happen to be near any blood source (which tends to be quite common in this game), the slaughter demon can pop out and fuck you up. No and, ifs, or buts about it, unless you're toting a shotty for the very second this fucker happens to be upon you. His speed coming out of a blood source and crazy damage-dealing guarantees death to most, and once he takes you under, your body is permanently destroyed, so you won't be playing again that round unless you take up a ghost role. Slaughter Demon at the very least should drop his victims on death like the Laughter Demon at the very least, though much, much more would need to change to make him acceptable enough not to spawn in once a year. I personally don't think it's impossible, but it would basically ask for a drastically different goal than murderboning everything.
Space Dragon: Space dragon is a guaranteed shuttle call, due to his destructive abilities. Being able to move decently fast, space walk, and smash r-walls allows him to destroy the station with ease and quickly bring a decent station to the point of no return. In combat, space dragon is 50% resistant to sec's most common weapon, lasers, and generally requires less common weaponry to take down. However, he's brought down quickly by any shotgun, and generally isn't a threat to anyone wearing a suit with fire resistance. But, if he does kill you, you'll be swiftly gibbed, leaving you dead for a round which is almost certain to not go for much longer. His main balancing factor is that he only rarely comes to fuck you up, and a clueless player controlling him is an easy slaughter. I'd say that Space Dragon needs to be less destructive, not gib people, have his stats adjusted, and then given an overarching goal which can end the round if he manages to win.
Morph: The morph is an extremely cool gimmick, but lacks much substance behind its cool power. All it ever has to do is eat people, and while it lacks the power to be a major midround antagonist, it's survival sort of dictates it eats people and then keeps them out of the round for as long as it can. The core elements of the morph are fun with disguising and whatnot, but it really needs something more to it than just that, as a fun design like this deserves something better than it currently has.
I mostly find it interesting that the only real problems I perceive lie mostly the major antags, and the majority of them too, with Blob and Lone Op being the only ones exempt, though it isn't that surprising. Being able to end players' rounds should cause some sort of end condition, and overall the major side antags could learn a thing or two from how the blob generally plays out. The blob is a threat to the station as a whole, not entirely too overwhelming and ends the round if he wins. The only thing about the blob which could be considered bad is that the blob might be a tad underpowered, though with any other threat present it ends to be much more threatening. I think the blob works as a good standard for the other midround antags to follow, and I think adjusting the other major midround antags to follow it's structure would help reduce salt and increase the enjoyability of these spawns, and maybe allow for their spawn rates to be bumped up when they get changed. However, I want know, what does everyone else think? Could be disagreeing with the points I make in the OP, or perhaps sharing an opinion about one of the midround antags I didn't cover.