/tg/Station 13

At the moment, anybody with a few items can craft a makeshift shotgun and print unlimited ammo in the cargo as well as order unlimited supplies of ballistic weaponry from cargo.

For the game to have paranoia in it, the defender (non-antagonist), has to be at a disadvantage (ie. they don't know that the antag has a stechkin and antag knowing that they don't have a sawn-off riot shotgun in their backpack fnr).

All sorts of high damage and easily concealable weapons should be distinct traitor items - energy dagger, stechkin, revolver, ling armblade etc, not something literally every crewmember has "just in case" - cakehat, sawn-off shotgun etc.

If a weapon fits in the backpack and can deal close to or more damage than traitor gear, then there is a problem - why bother getting traitor gear, when you can get a "legal" weapon that works as well. If you get caught with a stechkin, you get lynched, while most of the times if you get caught with a sawn-off shotgun nobody bats an eye.

tl;dr - remove ballistic and high damage concealable weapons from the hands of regular crew (including bartender and detective). Give them disablers instead. With disablers there are counterplay options, getting shot once with a slug ends your antag round 9 out of 10 times, because there is no way to heal that damage in combat.

so what do you suggest? sawn off shotguns have an higher aim penality?

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:so what do you suggest? sawn off shotguns have an higher aim penality?

Im suggesting the removal of shotguns from civilian hands entirely - cannot make them with a pipe, cannot order them via cargo. At most have a few in the armory, but even better would be if the game for non-antags moved towards energy weapons only.

That is a terrible idea krok, I mean come on.

Printing unlimited ammo from any lathe is stupid, I agree. But ordering guns, ammo etc should absolutely be a thing. That's part of ss13 and it should be up to the captain/security to stop it if they don't like it (with whatever consequences trying to disarm cargonia carries).

This is "remove the clown because the noise annoys me"-tier suggestion.

Arathian wrote:That is a terrible idea krok, I mean come on.

Printing unlimited ammo from any lathe is stupid, I agree. But ordering guns, ammo etc should absolutely be a thing. That's part of ss13 and it should be up to the captain/security to stop it if they don't like it (with whatever consequences trying to disarm cargonia carries).

This is "remove the clown because the noise annoys me"-tier suggestion.

I can see your point of view.

Ordering guns would be still optional, but they would be standard army issue laser rifles, disablers and/or maybe keep bulky mosin (slow rate of fire, cannot be hidden) as an option.

If everybody is armed to the teeth and most of them can easily get better weapons than you with your "syndicate connection", then the game becomes more of a RDM with no incentive to make things interesting.

Remember when R&D could print off SMGs and we removed that because it was dumb?

Anonmare wrote:Remember when R&D could print off SMGs and we removed that because it was dumb?

I would legitimately be surprised if people remembered this or knew about it

Remember autorifles

Remember taser revolvers

As a compromise, you could make improvised shotguns have a chance to blow up in your hand(s) when fired, sort of like a .38 revolver that's been modified to fire .357 rounds.

I don't really see this as that much of a problem, though, simply because I don't see people make/use improvised shotguns very often. It helps that they're a bit clunky to use and are a bit of a bitch to craft.

oh look another security buff we like those a lot

if you want to nerf projectile weaponry for the crew, nerf ammunition abundance. make ammo unprintable anywhere but sec lathe and nerf self-made shells

Flatulent wrote:oh look another security buff we like those a lot

if you want to nerf projectile weaponry for the crew, nerf ammunition abundance. make ammo unprintable anywhere but sec lathe and nerf self-made shells

"Another"? I recall only security nerfs the last year. Their taser got removed, baton got nerfed and flashbangs were nerfed.

CPTANT wrote:

Flatulent wrote:oh look another security buff we like those a lot

if you want to nerf projectile weaponry for the crew, nerf ammunition abundance. make ammo unprintable anywhere but sec lathe and nerf self-made shells

"Another"? I recall only security nerfs the last year. Their taser got removed, baton got nerfed and flashbangs were nerfed.

armor was buffed against disablers

Anonmare wrote:Remember when R&D could print off SMGs and we removed that because it was dumb?

remember when we briefly considered giving every crewmember a gun

Flatulent wrote:

CPTANT wrote:

Flatulent wrote:oh look another security buff we like those a lot

if you want to nerf projectile weaponry for the crew, nerf ammunition abundance. make ammo unprintable anywhere but sec lathe and nerf self-made shells

"Another"? I recall only security nerfs the last year. Their taser got removed, baton got nerfed and flashbangs were nerfed.

armor was buffed against disablers

Hardly a buff that securities main weapon is worse against armour now.

CPTANT wrote:

Flatulent wrote:

CPTANT wrote:

Flatulent wrote:oh look another security buff we like those a lot

if you want to nerf projectile weaponry for the crew, nerf ammunition abundance. make ammo unprintable anywhere but sec lathe and nerf self-made shells

"Another"? I recall only security nerfs the last year. Their taser got removed, baton got nerfed and flashbangs were nerfed.

armor was buffed against disablers

Hardly a buff that securities main weapon is worse against armour now.

having armor makes non-sec/heads valid so you use lethals instead

PKPenguin321 wrote:

Anonmare wrote:Remember when R&D could print off SMGs and we removed that because it was dumb?

remember when we briefly considered giving every crewmember a gun

Remember when we replaced tasers with m1911's with rubber bullets?

i'm not opposed to removing the makeshift shotgun

I don't know how to fix the shotguns absurd opness easily, probably by making it twohanded.

Limit ammo rather than guns. In any apocalyptic survival game it's always ammo you conserve, not the weapons. Makeshift bullets can still be crafted but just make them explode in your face a la det 357. If you really wanted to go a step further make it so ammo can only be bought, giving a reason for security to actually care about cargo, and utilize their defense budget.

oranges wrote:i'm not opposed to removing the makeshift shotgun

I don't know how to fix the shotguns absurd opness easily, probably by making it twohanded.

It already kinda is, one empty hand is needed to fire it.

ATHATH wrote:As a compromise, you could make improvised shotguns have a chance to blow up in your hand(s) when fired, sort of like a .38 revolver that's been modified to fire .357 rounds.

I was going to suggest this, but thankfully I read the whole thread first. Making it like a 25% chance to misfire would definitely reduce their usage without removing the option entirely, and stay in line with the spirit of an improvised weapon.

I'd also suggest moving buckshot and techshot rounds from the hacked autolathe to the security lathe, so that the only public rounds available are slugs and rubbershot. This would - again - still keep some power in the hands of the crew, but make them have to work harder for more lethal options, while keeping the lethal methods available for legitimate use.

oranges wrote:i'm not opposed to removing the makeshift shotgun

I don't know how to fix the shotguns absurd opness easily, probably by making it twohanded.

Increasing armor effectiveness would do wonders for limiting how powerful buckshot is as well.

If you want to make the makeshift shotgun less of a threat I would give it a chance to fucking explode like the zip gun does on goon, at least when using non-makeshift ammo. This would make it similar to the detectives revolver in that if you want the powerful ammo you got to risk blowing your own ass up.

Nalzul wrote:utilize their defense budget.

Actually look at development and play the game when talking about balance you must.