Floyd Mining Rework V2

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Qustinnus
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Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Qustinnus » #548981

Hello,

A few months ago I made a thread to talk about a mining rework I was working on, I got some feedback and a lot of it was valid and useful so I have decided to make a second thread to re-think my re-work and approach it from a new angle.

The old thread can be found here: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23346

Some of the issues that I want to rectify
- There was too much emphasis on finding and transporting the boulders
- Exploring and generating caverns would take up a lot of memory but in the end probably not look/play very interestingly
- Lack of late-game content

Some of the things I want to keep
- The effects materials have on the refinement process, and the refinement process itself
- The boulders instead of simply dropping ore.

So what's my plan?

Keep some status quo
Mining is currently not mining but exploration. This isn't bad but mining is only 5% of the workload in lavaland. I would remove a large fraction of the mining gameplay from lavaland and instead move it to this new system, seperating what we currently know as a miner to a new role, explorer. This allows us to keep Lavaland in for the people I know very much enjoy the current content. It's up to oranges discretion what is done with Lavaland after that.

Move mining to the station
I think Lavaland is interesting as a PvE area, but is very disconnected from the station and oranges has indicated that he no longer wants to cater to Lavaland content. Instead I think adding a goon-esque "asteroid magnet" to the station will help us create a workplace for miners that is still interesting. You have a console which can find asteroids and pull them in. Based on tech progression you can find different kinds of asteroids with different possible compositions. These asteroids are then partially generated to fit a specific theme/biome. For example at the start you might just find simple meteors, but later on you could find meatyores (partially made out of meat), lavaland asteroids, ice asteroids, maybe even ruins. The asteroids would be about 30x30 in size so theres some room to explore.

This would allow us to populate different asteroids with different themes to allow for a lot of variation, and could still fill up the interest in PvE that is enjoyed in Lavaland. (Focusing on keeping the PvE in there in line with the station's balance, rather than creating a new balance like Lavaland).

Processing
The mining itself would be similar as my proposed previous re-make. Each asteroid would have a general composition, and a vein composition. Each rock has a % based composition, lets say 80% sand, 10% gold and 10% plasma. But the vein might be much richer with 40% sand, 20% diamonds and 40% uranium. Mining one of these rocks would give you a boulder which you can drag to a close-by conveyor belt (As the asteroid is on station). This boulder is then turned into some rocks which can then be processed through a bunch of machines. These machines have effects based on the material datum that go through them. For example plasma is flammable, so a rock with 80% sand 10% gold and 10% plasma would be a bad fit for a rock burner machine, as it would explode. However, putting the rock into a machine that raises the amount of plasma material but removes some sand, would be something very beneficial.

This means you would have to attune your factory by turning on and off machines depending on the composition of your asteroid. And if you dislike an asteroid you can try find a new one instead.

Below you can find a spreadsheet I made to showcase how different machines could affect different materials
Image

Progression
Now, the next issue is what we could do for late-game content, as Mining right now is basically 5 minutes of mining and 50 minutes of monster hunting. I propose the following:
- Use the proposed experiment system BobbahBrown is working on to allow miners to do specific assignments to allow them to get new tech, making them more involved with the RnD system
- Create new opportunities revolving around material datums for miners so they can get new items
- Create variety in the asteroids so that there is enough challenge each round instead of mining being overly braindead.


One big disclaimer though; the idea here is not to re-create factorio, as that's far better suited for a job like cargo.

I plan to work on this after vatgrowing is merged. I just want to post this already so I can get feedback from both oranges and the playerbase.
Last edited by Qustinnus on Mon May 04, 2020 2:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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oranges
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by oranges » #548984

How big is an asteroid? there's not that much space left around the station z level edges for what it's worth.
Qustinnus
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Qustinnus » #548985

oranges wrote:How big is an asteroid? there's not that much space left around the station z level edges for what it's worth.
30x30~, My idea is to add z-level under cargo which would give us enough space. It's indeed rather unfeasible on the main z-level although I did manage to fit it on box when I was testing it.
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by oranges » #548993

How do you square that with it not being on station content then? Seems like it would suffer similar problems as lavaland then?
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Qustinnus » #548996

oranges wrote:How do you square that with it not being on station content then? Seems like it would suffer similar problems as lavaland then?
I'd disagree, If only the asteroids are upstairs and processing happens downstairs you'd still have them move around. In that sense it's the same as any job having their own department. Plus like I mention I want them doing experiments for RnD which means theyd have to communicate and work with Science to a degree
Daxxed
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Daxxed » #549077

Don't change what you don't play
If these ideas actually came from someone who played mining more than once since 2016, they would probably get alot more support.
Qustinnus
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Qustinnus » #549078

I..have played mining? I'm not sure why you are bothering to attack me if you have any feedback feel free to post it.
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Daxxed » #549080

Was that before statbus was invented because mining has actually changed quite a bit since then, if not then could you please link the specific rounds ?
I struggle to find them using scrubby.
Not a personal attack, sorry if you took it that way.

I would just rather much prefer BIG OVERHAULS to come from someone who actually plays the role often.
Look at any mining PR and the ridiculous side effects they have had because the coder in question had no idea what miners could do and you should understand my fear.
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wesoda25
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by wesoda25 » #549081

Mining has barely changed in recent years, you don't need to actively play miner to attempt a rework.
[this space reserved]
Daxxed
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Daxxed » #549085

wesoda25 wrote:Mining has barely changed in recent years, you don't need to actively play miner to attempt a rework.
Only around 100 PRs in the past 6 months
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by XDTM » #549086

I really like the idea of constantly randomly generating areas, it has great potential for complexity. By upgrading the magnet through techweb progression you could maybe aim for better, but harder to mine asteroids, or unlock the chance of spawning valuable ruins in place of an asteroid.
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Qustinnus
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Qustinnus » #549090

Daxxed wrote:Was that before statbus was invented because mining has actually changed quite a bit since then, if not then could you please link the specific rounds ?
I struggle to find them using scrubby.
Not a personal attack, sorry if you took it that way.

I would just rather much prefer BIG OVERHAULS to come from someone who actually plays the role often.
Look at any mining PR and the ridiculous side effects they have had because the coder in question had no idea what miners could do and you should understand my fear.
Before statbus, And I used to play Yog more often than TG when I was starting here due to me knowing people there. In my opinion this re-work is focused on re-working the mining gameplay of the mining job which has remained unchanged for a good amount of years. I failed to mention this on the post but I want to keep lavaland open for a seperate job, just remove mineral collection as it served no real gameplay besides giving the miners gamer points.
Daxxed
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Daxxed » #549098

I am a fan of change as long as the npc combat stays in some way or another.
Almost all of them have been reworked in the last 2 years and we had some new ones aswell, would be a shame to go to waste.
Killing them with minimal gear or with the weaker lavaland ghostroles has always been a fun challenge too.
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Re: Floyd Mining Rework V2

Post by Tlaltecuhtli » #549103

can you mine tc
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