An Alternative Skill Overhaul

A place to record your ideas for the game.

Moderators: MisterPerson, Code Maintainers

User avatar
SkeletalElite
 
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:14 pm
Byond Username: SkeletalElite
Github Username: SkeletalElite

An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby SkeletalElite » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:57 pm #568423

So I was thinking that rather than all this stuff about skills and skill grinding, instead of using skills as something to grind, you just make skills something you have roundstart depending on your job.
It's good because instead of encouraging people to grind up useful skills or grind skills at all, you just use the system as a mechanical reason for jobs to actually matter

Doctors can have a high medical skill to make them outright better at healing than other people.
Engineer's can have a construction skill that gives them an action speed bonus to building/deconstructing stuff
Assistants can have negative skill so they're just worse at stuff.
As more job related skills get added, those can be applied to their relevant jobs.
Fluff skills like the gamer skill can stay the same since they don't matter.



kopoba
 
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:09 am
Byond Username: Kopoba

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby kopoba » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:33 pm #568425

and antags have all skills!

User avatar
Armhulen
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: it's a long story

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Armhulen » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:40 pm #568426

Disguising is already way way better than it should be right now, so I like this idea. You should be able to steal someone's clothes, not their main job on the station. CHANGELINGS, OF COURSE, SHOULD THOUGH.
Image

User avatar
PKPenguin321
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:02 pm
Location: U S A, U S A, U S A
Byond Username: PKPenguin321
Github Username: PKPenguin321

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:01 pm #568432

Terrible. Disguising should be good, the hard part of it should be playing your role well and hiding any evidence that you're not who you claim.
Part of the main draw of /tg/ over other servers is that, in a pinch, you can do any job without any code restrictions or admins breathing down your neck. Emergency surgery with a pen and some wire as a janitor? Go for it. Giving jobs stat-based inherent advantages is already pretty lame where it exists and has a tendency to get moved to being granted through objects (things like sterile gloves letting you lift people up faster, krav maga being tied to gloves, bartender's drink throwing book, etc). Exceptions like chaplain and mime are already distasteful enough imo.
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
Spoiler:
Image

User avatar
oranges
Code Maintainer
 
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:16 pm
Location: #CHATSHITGETBANGED
Byond Username: Optimumtact
Github Username: optimumtact

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby oranges » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:22 am #568439

An alternative skill overhaul: delete skills

User avatar
wesoda25
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
Byond Username: Wesoda25

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:19 am #568440

oranges wrote:An alternative skill overhaul: delete skills

So was that a joke or...?
Naloac wrote:Since you have asked for a *community opinion* and im the player voted admin. Ill give you my official opinion straight from the *community* Your fucking retarded

User avatar
Armhulen
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: it's a long story

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Armhulen » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:17 am #568444

wesoda25 wrote:
oranges wrote:An alternative skill overhaul: delete skills

So was that a joke or...?

Definitely isn't, oranges is pretty against skills in general. too game-y is what i hear from em but i'll let him justify it himself
Image

User avatar
Shadowflame909
 
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:18 pm
Location: Think about something witty and pretend I put it here
Byond Username: Shadowflame909

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Shadowflame909 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:25 am #568445

Armhulen wrote:
wesoda25 wrote:
oranges wrote:An alternative skill overhaul: delete skills

So was that a joke or...?

Definitely isn't, oranges is pretty against skills in general. too game-y is what i hear from em but i'll let him justify it himself


I think learning stuff should be a progression mechanic in the library anyways.

Spoiler:
Image

ThanatosRa wrote:My biggest problem is that I can't fix any of this.


Boris wrote:shadowflame either has a brain the size of a pea or one the size of the moon and he's playing 58D chess.


BeeSting12 wrote:please write an apology to this forums, this community, the host, and the internet as a whole for the data storage space you wasted with this complaint.


BebeYoshi wrote:Saltyflame909


Cobby wrote:The trash bin... have you lost your way home anon?

User avatar
wesoda25
In-Game Admin
 
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:32 pm
Byond Username: Wesoda25

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby wesoda25 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:17 am #568458

Armhulen wrote:Definitely isn't, oranges is pretty against skills in general. too game-y is what i hear from em but i'll let him justify it himself

Was he not headcoder when skills were added?
Naloac wrote:Since you have asked for a *community opinion* and im the player voted admin. Ill give you my official opinion straight from the *community* Your fucking retarded

User avatar
Cobby
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Cobby » Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:49 pm #568475

We try not to go over each other, especially when it doesnt hurt to try out the system.

In regards to the topic, Im not interested in skills being used to disadvantage people because they didnt roll for the right job, as I expect people to be able to take up the mantle when portions of the station go to heck.

For instance if someone culls the entirety of medbay, you now have to not only do medbay but do it slower than they would have by default.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current

User avatar
Armhulen
In-Game Game Master
 
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:30 pm
Byond Username: Armhulenn
Github Username: it's a long story

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Armhulen » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:49 pm #568484

Cobby wrote:We try not to go over each other, especially when it doesnt hurt to try out the system.

In regards to the topic, Im not interested in skills being used to disadvantage people because they didnt roll for the right job, as I expect people to be able to take up the mantle when portions of the station go to heck.

For instance if someone culls the entirety of medbay, you now have to not only do medbay but do it slower than they would have by default.

Traitors having a visible effect on station performance by who they kill is really interesting

Edit: I'd also like to point out that if you want to hurt a department, traitors have a ton of ways of fucking up a department in ways that aren't "you still work but slower" they can make departments not EXIST anymore
Image

User avatar
BeeSting12
 
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:11 am
Location: 'Murica
Byond Username: BeeSting12
Github Username: BeeSting12

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby BeeSting12 » Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:53 pm #568488

oranges wrote:An alternative skill overhaul: delete skills

I agree
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day


[2020-05-21 01:21:48.923] SAY: Crippo/(Impala Chainee) "Shaggy Voice - She like... wants to get Eiffel Towered bro!!" (Brig (125, 166, 2))

hows my driving?

User avatar
SkeletalElite
 
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:14 pm
Byond Username: SkeletalElite
Github Username: SkeletalElite

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby SkeletalElite » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:29 pm #568491

Cobby wrote:In regards to the topic, Im not interested in skills being used to disadvantage people because they didnt roll for the right job, as I expect people to be able to take up the mantle when portions of the station go to heck.

For instance if someone culls the entirety of medbay, you now have to not only do medbay but do it slower than they would have by default.


It's not disadvantaging anyone to just make doctors do surgery slightly faster than anyone else. I'm not saying to restrict things to job skill CM style. Just to make rolling a job make you slightly better at that job than a regular person would.

As for the argument about disguising, if someone suspects you out because you're not as skilled at the job as who you're pretending to be, that seems like emergent gameplay to me. Changelings of course can inherit the skills of whoever they're impersonating. Plus the vast majority of people "disguising" are just throwing on some different clothes/ID, they're generally not replacing people unless they're lings.

It won't work as an antag test either, since if you reach the point of suspicious that you're "antag testing" someone, then you can just forcefully remove their disguise.

User avatar
Cobby
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Cobby » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:30 pm #568571

No, they are equivalent.

Boosting surgery speed for only doctors is the same as slowing surgery down for everyone else. The only difference is how you're presenting that number.

Armhulen wrote:Traitors having a visible effect on station performance by who they kill is really interesting

Edit: I'd also like to point out that if you want to hurt a department, traitors have a ton of ways of fucking up a department in ways that aren't "you still work but slower" they can make departments not EXIST anymore


I agree it does sound interesting but the overarching issue is that actions have to be compared to the benefits/costs of the shuttle being called. If you make it so the hill is too steep, people will just decide to go around it instead.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current

User avatar
NecromancerAnne
 
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Location: Don't touch me, motherfucker...
Byond Username: NecromancerAnne

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby NecromancerAnne » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:46 pm #568580

If a traitor is wiping the station of life, you or that traitor should call the shuttle. No amount of healing or single player action is going to reverse this damage in a fun or sufficient manner. Skills have nothing to do with this. This is purely an issue with enabling people to murderbone on a per round basis. Gotta live with that, basically.

User avatar
Cobby
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Cobby » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:22 pm #568581

murderboning is an acceptable practice so it doesnt really make sense to not consider that in how you balance the game. Yes, you "live with it", but that doesnt mean you ignore it from the discussion because we as coders do not have the ability to change it.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current

User avatar
NecromancerAnne
 
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Location: Don't touch me, motherfucker...
Byond Username: NecromancerAnne

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby NecromancerAnne » Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:47 pm #568636

Alternatively, a badman killing all the medical staff having a noticable impact on the effects of being able to utilize a station benefit is emergent gameplay. The fact that doing this right now has no appreciable impact whatsoever is to the games detriment, as there is nothing that matters in a role and nothing that makes any of them significant in any form. They are just labels. And the core reason why people play nothing but assistant, since in that position not only are they afforded no significant identifiers, but are at no TRUE disadvantage. Nothing is out of reach of the greyshirt.

You basically could have a station of greymen and nothing will change.

User avatar
Cobby
 
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 7:19 pm
Byond Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobby
Github Username: ExcessiveUseOfCobblestone

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby Cobby » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:46 pm #568646

We are now full circle. I am fully aware of the pro of "btfoing" assistants should this be done.

I still come to the conclusion that the pro "haha greytiders are now X% slower doing surgery, scared?" does not outweigh the con of someone who wants to either change jobs or for whatever reason needs to be in the surgery position not being as good as the person who won job lottery.
Voted best trap in /tg/ 2014-current

User avatar
NecromancerAnne
 
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:55 pm
Location: Don't touch me, motherfucker...
Byond Username: NecromancerAnne

Re: An Alternative Skill Overhaul

Postby NecromancerAnne » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:16 pm #568662

This strikes me as very weird given I have never seen most roles with more than 4 slots entirely filled except on extremely high population rounds. Job changes forcing you to start from the bottom seems entirely fine from a role perspective simply because, yes, you are doing something that is outside of your role.

If we want to assume space is about roleplaying, the simpliest and easiest divide you can make is simply making those who are already in the role better able to use the tools found in that role, and everyone else lag behind. A few seconds difference is not an appreciable impact in low stress or low danger, short of tend wounds, which only really matters in high danger situations.

It isn't about making the people who lost the 'role lottery' feel bad, it's establishing you are out of your characters depth. The only thing you shouldn't do is completely bar players from doing it at all.


Return to Ideas

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users