New Power to replace X-ray

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Helios
 
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New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:35 pm #569141

Now that X-ray vision was removed from genetics, there is room for a new power to take its place of equivalent power-level, but without the problems of X-ray.
What should that new power be?



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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby ShibaInuLord » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:40 pm #569143

making the admin only belt that makes you invisible in darkness a genetics mutation would be cool
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Sheodir
 
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:52 pm #569146

Delete genetics and replace it with better genetics
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Cobby » Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:59 pm #569153

why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:07 pm #569161

Cobby wrote:why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???

To increase the playing of genetics.
If you look at statbus, people playing genetics has fallen off a cliff since the removal of x-ray, and the nerf of hulk.

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Armhulen » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:16 pm #569162

Helios wrote:
Cobby wrote:why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???

To increase the playing of genetics.
If you look at statbus, people playing genetics has fallen off a cliff since the removal of x-ray, and the nerf of hulk.

That sounds for a pretty serious fundamental problem with the job. I mean, jobs should be compelling to do beyond what they give you, like janitor!
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Ivuchnu » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:24 pm #569163

Thermal vision and space adaptation are only two powers that are not gimmick that are worth killed time. Rework minigame involved, somehow, to make gimmick power job work. As potential user of powers, I liked thermal vision more than X-ray, and never really wanted hulk because it's all about removing walls and delivering beatdown to random valids. I'd not be surprised X-ray removal was ided in nature, KathyRyals removed it and later on is adding botany buff on chem traits.
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:43 pm #569167

Armhulen wrote:
Helios wrote:
Cobby wrote:why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???

To increase the playing of genetics.
If you look at statbus, people playing genetics has fallen off a cliff since the removal of x-ray, and the nerf of hulk.

That sounds for a pretty serious fundamental problem with the job. I mean, jobs should be compelling to do beyond what they give you, like janitor!

If only there was a handsome rogue that suggested a full overhaul to genetics somewhere in this board

tis a shame
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Armhulen » Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:57 pm #569170

Sheodir wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
Helios wrote:
Cobby wrote:why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???

To increase the playing of genetics.
If you look at statbus, people playing genetics has fallen off a cliff since the removal of x-ray, and the nerf of hulk.

That sounds for a pretty serious fundamental problem with the job. I mean, jobs should be compelling to do beyond what they give you, like janitor!

If only there was a handsome rogue that suggested a full overhaul to genetics somewhere in this board

tis a shame

ME BUT I'M STILL MAD ABOUT IT SO DON'T @ ME
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:16 pm #569173

It seems like nobody as far as I know has taken the time to redo genetics, again.
But they have no problem nerfing the results of the job, so that nobody ends up putting in the time to play it.
I am not going to tell Oranges how to do his job, but this piecemeal thinking when it comes to code can result in problems like this
Last edited by Helios on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:19 pm #569174

Helios wrote:It seems like nobody as far as I know has taken the time to redo genetics, again.
But they have no problem nerfing the results of the job, so that nobody ends up putting in the time to play it.
I am not going to tell Oranges how to do his job, but this piecemeal thinking when it comes to code can result in problems like this

Look I don't disagree with you but reworking genetics would be a huge undertaking
the issue with genetics aren't the rewards for the job they honestly always kinda sucked, it's that the job itself sucks
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:24 pm #569176

Sheodir wrote:
Armhulen wrote:
Helios wrote:
Cobby wrote:why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???

To increase the playing of genetics.
If you look at statbus, people playing genetics has fallen off a cliff since the removal of x-ray, and the nerf of hulk.

That sounds for a pretty serious fundamental problem with the job. I mean, jobs should be compelling to do beyond what they give you, like janitor!

If only there was a handsome rogue that suggested a full overhaul to genetics somewhere in this board

tis a shame

wow, how did you know about a thread made a year before you signed up for the forums?
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:27 pm #569179

PKPenguin321 wrote:wow, how did you know about a thread made a year before you signed up for the forums?


There's been like 7 but I gotta shill for the home team
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:13 pm #569185

>remove and nerf all the powers from genetics
>remove cloning from genetics
>wonder why no one plays genetics

hm
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:15 pm #569186

Super Aggro Crag wrote:>remove and nerf all the powers from genetics
>remove cloning from genetics
>wonder why no one plays genetics

hm

Implying Genetics was popular even before this
Nobody ever played Genetics for cloning so this is a non argument, there are no Geneticist mains that whined about cloning being removed both because Genetics is a boring slog and because people only ever played for the powers once or twice, and then realized they were never worth the RNG boredom, and then they rolled another job

Genetics is fundamentally flawed
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Armhulen » Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:21 pm #569188

As someone who loves genetics a ton and has added a lot of genetics stuff to it... let's not pretend like genetics has been any good... ever...
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:40 pm #569205

There are going to be nails that are sticking out, things that are blatantly above the current power curve, but something more like this should be how balance is thought about. Meta hunters aren't going to use a "Spear but worse" weapon.
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Understand that for a strategy to be viable in the game, it has to have strengths and weaknesses.
Or to use an RPG terms, Balance should be thought about from a points-buy perspective, not a roll for stats. It's fine if someone puts 10 points into strength so long as everyone has the same pool of SPECIAL stats to spend.
Super Aggro Crag wrote:>remove and nerf all the powers from genetics
>remove cloning from genetics
>wonder why no one plays genetics

hm

I agree with Crag. They're not thinking beyond stage one. It's short sighted thinking

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby oranges » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:18 pm #569211

egg ray, it heats up eggs and boils them

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby cacogen » Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:28 pm #569213

>xray was removed
why do they keep doing things like this
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:02 am #569221

Why the fuck did Helios post a huge analysis of Fate Servants I'm confused
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:30 am #569229

Sheodir wrote:Why the fuck did Helios post a huge analysis of Fate Servants I'm confused

I have no idea how to describe that strength-dexterity-etc graphs.
I don't know what it is called so I used an example to convey the idea.

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby cacogen » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:45 am #569231

i saw some anime hieroglyphs and everything went black

woke up reading the x-ray removal pr and it seems more reasonable in context, you can still cut out your eyes and put computer ones in
cobby needs to kneejerk harder than that if he's to replace oranges as most dangerous maintainer
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Flatulent » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:45 am #569313

rework void magnet and make it actually useful(read: a meme)
when you press that button you become an imaginary friend to a person of your choosing(globally) for 30 seconds. makes for a perfect prank, you can dress up as a baddie with toy sword and scare people
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Cimika » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:51 am #569314

Ivuchnu wrote:Thermal vision and space adaptation are only two powers that are not gimmick that are worth killed time. Rework minigame involved, somehow, to make gimmick power job work. As potential user of powers, I liked thermal vision more than X-ray, and never really wanted hulk because it's all about removing walls and delivering beatdown to random valids. I'd not be surprised X-ray removal was ided in nature, KathyRyals removed it and later on is adding botany buff on chem traits.


Very cool to keep harassing me about the, what, two botany shifts where you played with me ? I clearly wrote in the PR body that it was made with Arcane, who CREATED new botany. Additionally, calling my Xray removal ided when I've been mainly a science player since forever actually shows you don't even bother checking up on the people you talk shit about. I actually lost a good deal of power because I used to get xrays ALL the time and I have ruined many antags with it, so removing it actually nerfed me.

Keep harassing people for the most petty shit Ivuchnu, it's your only defining trait at this point.
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby terranaut » Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:20 am #569316

Armhulen wrote:
Helios wrote:
Cobby wrote:why would i add an equivalently powerful item if the power of xray was deemed too strong hence removal???

To increase the playing of genetics.
If you look at statbus, people playing genetics has fallen off a cliff since the removal of x-ray, and the nerf of hulk.

That sounds for a pretty serious fundamental problem with the job. I mean, jobs should be compelling to do beyond what they give you, like janitor!

the appeal of playing janitor lies solely in slipping people running through hallway and pointing at your holo sign with smug self-satisfaction, i'd count that under "what the job gives you", it's just not tangible
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Ivuchnu » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:16 am #569318

Well, perhaps I am wrong about Cimika's motives with X-ray removal, coniine bluespace tomatoes must have made wrong impression. I definitely thought those are to be thrown at valids. It does not change the fact there's just thermal vision (which is quite strong for validhunting) and space adaptation in pool of useful powers. Are robos with x-ray eyes next on chopping block?
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:55 pm #569362

You need someone else to help you acquire those, and if anyone who has tried to get scrubs to do anything for you has learned, that is easier said than done. It isn't just that you are asking another player to help you. You are probably going to have to teach them as well.

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby trollbreeder » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:51 pm #569375

Meson vision. You can see the enviroment clearly like you have a pair of mesons taped to your forehead. If you combine this with (read: use alongside) thermal vision your eyes melt.
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby oranges » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:23 am #569442

ogg ray, it lets you see sound as visible effects

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby PKPenguin321 » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:32 am #569445

oranges wrote:ogg ray, it lets you see sound as visible effects

mite b cool as like a spider sense thing, an on-screen hud element that points to where sounds of interest are (like the sounds of people getting beaten and shot)
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Tlaltecuhtli » Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:19 am #569458

valid ray, makes you see the antags

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby confused rock » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:41 pm #569525

increased max view range
increases your max view range
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Sheodir » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:42 pm #569526

new power: you're done
it gives you a permanent non removable medal that says you beat genetics and never have to do it again
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Space Panda » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:45 pm #569528

new power:
x-ray

it makes you shoot x-ray with your eyes, slowly irradiating everything you see
and you can only see people as skeletons

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Copybass » Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:48 pm #569532

Space Panda wrote:new power:
x-ray

it makes you shoot x-ray with your eyes, slowly irradiating everything you see
and you can only see people as skeletons

Activates only when you lock eye contact with someone, making locking eye contact with a geneticist deadly
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:25 pm #569559

Space Panda wrote:new power:
x-ray

it makes you shoot x-ray with your eyes, slowly irradiating everything you see
and you can only see people as skeletons

Actually, the wizard version of hulk can shoot lasers from its eyes,maybe eye lasers with a 30 second cooldown between shots could be the new power

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby BrianBackslide » Tue Jul 14, 2020 3:51 pm #569617

Third Hand: Gives you an extra right hand. Can be combined with the Hulk mutation to get Four Hands mutation. (exclusive against Third Hand mutation)

Acrobatic: Falls won't make you drop items. Also lube and other slippery things won't slip you, but super duper lube still can.

Matter Phasing: Cooldown ability that lets you pass through walls. Shorter duration than "jaunt" abilities and you aren't invisible or otherwise untargettable. Also it's LOUD.

Chrome Dome: Energy shots against your head will be reflected, but you can't be wearing hats or anything larger than an internals mask.

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby BrotherBeyond » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:22 pm #569621

Fleshy duffel bag.
Creates a... fleshy duffel bag on your back. Functions similar to snail shell, still slows you as if it were a duffelbag. Can be torn off like a piece of clothing causing high brute and breaking your torso.

I know, I'm a genius.

Seriously though, I think that if none can be arsed to do a full rework on genetics, just adding a lot of 'meh' genetic powers would probably both nerf it and make it slightly more enjoyable.
It'd take longer to find the stronger mutations (seriously its just space adapt now) and yet will let geneticists experiment a tad more with a few semi useful powers like;
Magnetic feet - functions same as magboots but with a tad bit less of a slowdown.
Hardy bones - broken bones are less likely/heal on their own. More likely to have a dislocation.
Club arm - ability to turn a random arm into a heavy object. Deals somewhat decent brute, can only be repaired by replacement surgery.

Instead of having just 'good' and 'bad' mutations, I think mutations should be much more mixed with positive and negative effects for most.

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby saprasam » Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:49 pm #569627

if we forced genetics to where only people with less then 10 hours could use the machines nobody would have these problems and society's world hunger would be fixed
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Flatulent » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:39 pm #569647

BrotherBeyond wrote:Fleshy duffel bag.
Creates a... fleshy duffel bag on your back. Functions similar to snail shell, still slows you as if it were a duffelbag. Can be torn off like a piece of clothing causing high brute and breaking your torso.

I know, I’m a genius.

LOCKED DUFFELBAG LOCKED DUFFELBAG
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:56 pm #569651

BrianBackslide wrote:Third Hand: Gives you an extra right hand. Can be combined with the Hulk mutation to get Four Hands mutation. (exclusive against Third Hand mutation)

How difficult would this be to code?

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby trollbreeder » Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:20 pm #569652

Helios wrote:
BrianBackslide wrote:Third Hand: Gives you an extra right hand. Can be combined with the Hulk mutation to get Four Hands mutation. (exclusive against Third Hand mutation)

How difficult would this be to code?

Not very, because we have support for more than 2 hands. We don't use that support for anything though short of adminbus
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby BrotherBeyond » Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:42 pm #569661

trollbreeder wrote:
Helios wrote:
BrianBackslide wrote:Third Hand: Gives you an extra right hand. Can be combined with the Hulk mutation to get Four Hands mutation. (exclusive against Third Hand mutation)

How difficult would this be to code?

Not very, because we have support for more than 2 hands. We don't use that support for anything though short of adminbus


Two stun batons, two riot shields. God fuckin speed antags. In case anyone has any sudden insane inspiration to want to code the extra hands - why?

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:23 am #569664

Yeah Kor preemptively banned third hands from ever being added until the way shields work gets changed since being able to use a shield with a twohanded weapon would just be stupid
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:02 am #569673

PKPenguin321 wrote:Yeah Kor preemptively banned third hands from ever being added until the way shields work gets changed since being able to use a shield with a twohanded weapon would just be stupid

Give them the Hulk restriction that they can't use guns, and weapons that require a 2-handed grip like the PKA take up all 3 hands.
Make it a real tradeoff

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby PKPenguin321 » Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:29 am #569683

Helios wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:Yeah Kor preemptively banned third hands from ever being added until the way shields work gets changed since being able to use a shield with a twohanded weapon would just be stupid

Give them the Hulk restriction that they can't use guns, and weapons that require a 2-handed grip like the PKA take up all 3 hands.
Make it a real tradeoff

well it wasn't just two handed weapons but more just the third hand being a permanent shield slot since it works passively in your offhand and just straight up deletes attacks against you
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NecromancerAnne
 
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby NecromancerAnne » Sat Jul 18, 2020 12:44 am #569940

You mean like having an off-hand esword or katana?

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PKPenguin321
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby PKPenguin321 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:30 pm #569986

NecromancerAnne wrote:You mean like having an off-hand esword or katana?

exactly, only because it's in your third hand you can literally just hold it and then never have to think about it again because the two remaining open hand slots are enough to do anything else
i play Lauser McMauligan. clown name is Cold-Ass Honkey
i have three other top secret characters as well.
tell the best admin how good he is
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Helios
 
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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Helios » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:16 pm #570401

Does Space Adaptation make you immune to storms in ice box?

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Re: New Power to replace X-ray

Postby Shaps-cloud » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:23 pm #570402

P.S. Shoot Dr. Allen on sight and dissolve his body in acid. Don't burn it.

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