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add LOOC

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:00 pm
by remanseptim
aside from it likely being a pain in the ass to implement, and the fact that altercations might involve into shitshows of arguments between sides, there are few reasons why it shouldn't at least be added to manuel. perhaps adding it in and making it a config setting would work: keep it disabled for LRP, but enabled for the MRP servers.
LOOC would allow you to describe rules/give mechanical instruction for button presses and shit without having to either blatantly ock ick or skirt around doing so by vague IC descriptions of stuff. additionally, it would probably cut down on ick ock incidents since people could just bitch at each other in LOOC rather than for the whole server to hear.

primarily though I ask this for the MRP servers. since, as a non-antagonist, you require somebody's explicit consent before antagonizing them on MRP, this would help make things clearer. LOOC with someone to see if they're cool with shit occurring, or do not wanna be involved in whatever gimmick you're doing.

this wasn't something i originally wanted. i prefer when RP can be left completely IC to dynamically develop, but it seems a lack of general understanding and communication between players in manuel can hamper conflict for a mutual fear of either bwoinkies or round-ruining.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:28 pm
by Ivuchnu
Why this is not a thing? ((blatant ock ick)) is yuck.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:00 pm
by Tarchonvaagh

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:43 am
by oranges
PostThis post was deleted by oranges on Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:38 am.
Reason: abusive language

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:33 am
by Flatulent
you can explain mechanics to new players ic

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:07 am
by cacogen
it's not hard to implement

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:08 am
by remanseptim
there's reasons beyond explaining mechanics. i think it'd help alleviate the general lack of player-driven conflict on manuel, for example. you've seen the threads.
The not-so-secret rule of sticky situations and mayhem.
Please be considerate of other players, as their experiences are just as important as your own. If you aren’t an antagonist and yet you really want to play out a hostage situation, or turn someone into a living cake-cat abomination, or just dick around a little, confirm with the involved and affected players ICly first. If everyone agrees to being subjected to whatever terrible atrocities you have in store, then you’re good to go. Please keep in mind that this rule does not protect you from IC consequences, such as getting arrested by security. If you are going to RP as a rude dude, given that your victims have given you the okay, you still have to own the responsibility that comes with your decision. This means, no, you can’t kill a security officer because they tried to arrest you for murdering the clown, even if the clown agreed to being murdered.

having your victims give an explicit IC 'okay' sort of defeats the purpose of visiting atrocities on them. now, this can be interpreted as you gleaning that they're okay with whatever is going on by how they act IC, but that's an inconsistent way of doing things; an LOOC function to be sure that two players are willing to play out a situation without resorting to salty ahelps could be useful.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:23 am
by Stickymayhem
I think looc breaks the flow of fun situations more than anything else.

I think if you're creative enough to genuinely be using that rule to best effect and for good reason, you're creative enough to be able to use innuendo to check that they're fine with stuff.

You can also always ahelp as either party to have an admin check in on the situation, which is generally a good idea because if you're self-antagging or doing something seriously whacky admins probably want to keep an eye on it anyway.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:43 am
by Tlaltecuhtli
its allowed to explain mechanics ickly to newfriends, having to “ask for rape consent in looc” is bad as it ruins spontaneous rp

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:51 am
by Vekter
I think LOOC makes sense on higher RP servers because it lets you coordinate RP scenes. I could see how it could be helpful on /tg/, but it'd be a nightmare to moderate properly.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:58 am
by cocothegogo
i have never been ahelped because i told a space man to drag themselfs onto a sprite

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:24 pm
by Sheodir
I played on a /tg/branch for a relatively large Discord server with LOOC enabled being one of the only changes from the main servers and I actually like it a lot. I used not to see the point but being able to quickly explain to someone how to fireman carry without breaking roleplay badly, solving small conflicts that would generate ahelps (such as 'hey how did you know i washere did you use ghost knowledge', to cite a personal example) and also to coordinate RP stuff works wonders. I agree spontaneous RP is a great thing, but it can also be nice to explain a gimmick to someone who joins the shift halfway in.

I personally would test merge it (well, it's a setting, so not really a merge) and just test it out for a bit. I used to dislike the idea before I actually played with it for a bit.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:25 pm
by annoyinggreencatgirl
To reiterate my take on this from the last thread:

On near every server I've seen that has LOOC, it is used solely for arguing, minimodding, shit flinging, and straight up stupid stuff (LOOC: brb gotta take a shit VS Player says "I feel a bout of SSD coming on, please wait for me"). If you can't convey nearly everything you need to in IC chat, you're an uncreative boob, and LOOC is far more immersion breaking to me than seeing a brief explanation of game mechanics in IC chat ever has been. It's another thing the codebase would have to port in and maintain, and it's another thing the admins would have to police, and another thing players can and will grossly misuse and shit up.

Hard no, for the love of God, never put this on TG.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:32 pm
by Ivuchnu
You could add rule that LOOC is strictly for explaining game mechanics if you are so afraid of minimodding and shitflinging.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:42 pm
by RaveRadbury
If we're not going to add LOOC then at the very least we should add a page to the wiki offering ways and means to explain things ICly.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:01 pm
by wesoda25
imo looc breaks immersion more than whispering how to do something to someone

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:26 pm
by cedarbridge
If you can explain how to do something OOC you should be able to put together the extra brain cell to explain the same thing IC. Especially on Manuel

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:12 pm
by Ivuchnu
I'd like to see example of something like switching default language or using portable seed extractor that is easy to understand while you are new to game.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:58 pm
by remanseptim
there's more to it than just explaining mechanics, as i mentioned in my post.
it could help set up RP gimmicks that you'd ordinarily not dare try for fear of bwoink. it'll let you know who is OOCly on board with something even though their character is not.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:03 pm
by Flatulent
> rping in looc because you are afraid of rping ic

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:14 pm
by remanseptim
that isn't what that means at all
it more means saying "hey are you cool with this or will you ahelp it" if you're up to naughty shit as a role that does not ordinarily allow it.
read rule 10 of RP rules. this'd just help make that process less ambiguous.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:24 pm
by Flatulent
if someone ahelping it results in you getting noted/banned, it’s not a right thing to do either way

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:48 pm
by Capsandi
The strange paradox that is manuel.

I log onto manuel two weeks after it's creation and get traitor. RD gets a medal of bravery for putting out a fire in the bar. I think thats dumb cause the fire was from a single bar of plasma, prod rd and shove him in science's testing chamber, and start yelling about how i never get recognition from my hard work, and how i need a medal or ill flame him. Bwoinked and told how "manuel has a style of roleplay that is higher than terry or bagil" while sec comes in guns blazing for some reason.

Contrast that from a round not too long ago on bagil during highpop. I get onto the station thirty minutes in and get traitor, i learn a cult had been killed off using a small nation's worth of xenobio monsters. I pick a toolbelt off a dead engineer in medical(something i have been bwoinked for as traitor on manuel). I fortify chapel so theres only one operable door inside and call over the xenobiologist for a medal from the hos. When he gets there i pull a gun and tell him to get on the ground, he complies because i have a gun. I cuff him while demanding the NAD and ten thousand bucks. Lawyers come with the requested money while QM informs the xenobiologist he needs adamantite as repayment after he is released. The captain wont cough up the disk, so i whisper to the xenobiologist to order his goons to kill the captain after me if I need to pull the trigger. The perimeter is being held by space bears who are mauling anyone who tries to break into chapel. I get a counter offer for an escape pod and a russian slave boy. I accept because slaves rule. i get escorted into the security pod while a prisoner is given a russian jumpsuit and an electropack.

The latter situation was more engaging because everyone was working for their own goals and not for the goal of "not hurting anyones feelings". The xenobiologist didn't want to get a cap in their head so they told their goons to make sure nobody broke into chapel. The QM made an investment to save the xenobiologist to get more money in return. The slave boy was offered because to the captain, a perma prisoner has a lot less value than the NAD, but to a lone traitor who blew their cover, another set of hands to defend an escape pod is invaluable.

If i were to ask the xenobiologist in looc "can i hold u hostage plz????" they would either say no, and run no rp, or "yes", cursing me with the knowledge that the xenobiologist may be acting scared, but isn't trying to avoid death, else why would they willingly enter a hostage situation? Manuel seems to deter roleplay in violent situations because nobody is acting how they should act, which is in their own interests, which makes no sense ic. It's like having sex but your too worried the other person is having a good time so you ask if you can continue every two seconds.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:44 pm
by cedarbridge
Capsandi wrote:If i were to ask the xenobiologist in looc "can i hold u hostage plz????" they would either say no, and run no rp, or "yes", cursing me with the knowledge that the xenobiologist may be acting scared, but isn't trying to avoid death, else why would they willingly enter a hostage situation? Manuel seems to deter roleplay in violent situations because nobody is acting how they should act, which is in their own interests, which makes no sense ic. It's like having sex but your too worried the other person is having a good time so you ask if you can continue every two seconds.


"Unless I can overreact and self-antag then everyone else is RPing the wrong way" sure is a take I didn't expect to read today.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:49 am
by Farquaar
LOOC only belongs on HRP servers, in my opinion. There’s no need for it on MRP, where roleplay is more organic and free-flowing. If you want to plan out your roleplay interactions out of character, there are HRP servers that cater to that sort of playstyle.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:33 am
by skoglol
LOOC: Haha let us all coordinate and experience some natural RP haha this is how that works.

No thanks. If you need to ask someone for permission to do anything in this game, you are probably breaking our rules. If you are an antag, you can do whatever you want anyway.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:56 am
by wesoda25
skoglol wrote:LOOC: Haha let us all coordinate and experience some natural RP haha this is how that works.

No thanks. If you need to ask someone for permission to do anything in this game, you are probably breaking our rules. If you are an antag, you can do whatever you want anyway.

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:23 am
by letshavecake
cedarbridge wrote:"Unless I can overreact and self-antag then everyone else is RPing the wrong way" sure is a take I didn't expect to read today.


I don't think you actually read that post

Re: add LOOC

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:21 pm
by remanseptim
skoglol wrote:LOOC: Haha let us all coordinate and experience some natural RP haha this is how that works.

No thanks. If you need to ask someone for permission to do anything in this game, you are probably breaking our rules. If you are an antag, you can do whatever you want anyway.

read roleplay rule 10.