/tg/Station 13

This is meant to nerf the playstyle where nontag players use miner role primarily as PVE gamer gear collectors.The extreme form of this is when miners mine just what's needed for PKA upgrades & cutter and not touch the ORM ever again.

Why:
* GPS is meant as a safety device. Tendrils are very low on the lavaland threat scale and can be easily avoided even by new players
* Tendrils should serve as goodies in reward for otherwise boring mining, not be the goal of choosing miner itself
* Miners who don't beeline tendrils but go for early resources end up getting no rewards as the tendrils get quickly exhausted. This disincentives resource collection.

Changes:
* Remove tendrils from GPS
* Add 2 extra tendrils on to compensate for lower chance of running into one randomly

To consider:
* TC-purchasable improved GPS with tendril detection for tator miners
* Improved GPS as random lavaland loot

Discuss.

I don't mine and don't know the meta (other than mine) but yes, I agree

Agree, actually hunting for them also means you clearing way more rock to search, so you also get more minerals.

this falls into the old argument of how nerfing mining more often than not leads to people not wanting to participate in it
the satisfaction of contributing to the station can only carry you so far

tendrill chest spawn CLOSED

KEYS from mining vendor OPEN them for 1000 mining points

solved the problem of certain miners rushing tendrils and not mining

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:tendrill chest spawn CLOSED

KEYS from mining vendor OPEN them for 1000 mining points

solved the problem of certain miners rushing tendrils and not mining

This sounds like a way better change than just removing the GPS signal.
Also make a cheap mining traitor item that can open them and has infinite uses.

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:tendrill chest spawn CLOSED

KEYS from mining vendor OPEN them for 1000 mining points

solved the problem of certain miners rushing tendrils and not mining

It's better than the current design but has caveats compared to GPS removal:
* Locks goodie crates away from non-miners, including greytiders, greytiders masking as chemists and ashliggers
* Not obvious to new players that keys are a good investment - would result in new miners missing out on goodie crates
* Takes resource points away from rockmule/baby mining gear, like advanced scanner, capsules, pickaxes
* Delays action/reward cycle, weakens the goodie crate=good conditioning
* Introduces additional logistics and potential for goodie chest theft ("I just came back with a key you cunt" - possibly a good thing?)
* Doesn't address the core issue use of miner slot as gamer loot collector, only gates it behind "you have to be at least this useful" point count.

If this were to be the solution to pursue, the tator skeleton key would be a very good addition. I don't want to invalidate gamer gear collector playstyle for tators, nor address the ludicrously robust sleeping carp+power miner+memento+cursed weebsword combo. At least not as part of this change anyway.

Intercept0r wrote: * Locks goodie crates away from non-miners, including greytiders, greytiders masking as chemists and ashliggers

This is a key point. Non-miners are already hamstrung by no having ORM access or access to Mining Reward Vendors. This means that when miners don't mine it's often hard to convince other people to take on the job since there is zero reward.

If more barriers were added such as locked chests you might as well just remove public mining.

chocolate_bickie wrote:

Intercept0r wrote: * Locks goodie crates away from non-miners, including greytiders, greytiders masking as chemists and ashliggers

This is a key point. Non-miners are already hamstrung by no having ORM access or access to Mining Reward Vendors. This means that when miners don't mine it's often hard to convince other people to take on the job since there is zero reward.

If more barriers were added such as locked chests you might as well just remove public mining.

why are you even mining if you dont have intention to use orm? i dont think anyone has ever used the shitty mining side smelter outside of people with 1 week accounts or manuel players, orm is 1 wrench away from being used and no cargo tech will ever deny you to give them free plasma money.
if you arent fighting megafauna mining points are useless to you as there is nothing interesting outside of the 1 time upgrade of mining scanner and legion cores are enough for the minimal damage you ll get when ur cat jumps on your keyboard and you get stunlocked by goliaths,
ashwalkers can have a race restricted recipe to craft key with bones so its not really a problem for them

Tlaltecuhtli wrote: why are you even mining if you dont have intention to use orm? i dont think anyone has ever used the shitty mining side smelter outside of people with 1 week accounts or manuel players, orm is 1 wrench away from being used and no cargo tech will ever deny you to give them free plasma money.

I do have the intention to use the ORM, it's just locked behind a different department. And yes I can just unwrench it but that's like saying if you really want to do job X just break in. Public mining doesn't have any way to directly contribute to the station without breaking into other departments which just tells you what coders think of public mining.

Tlaltecuhtli wrote: if you arent fighting megafauna mining points are useless to you as there is nothing interesting outside of the 1 time upgrade of mining scanner and legion cores are enough for the minimal damage you ll get when ur cat jumps on your keyboard and you get stunlocked by goliaths,

I know this is hard to understand for miner mains but some people don't play this game to with the sole intent of becoming an OP valid bot. I like to mine because sometimes I just want to help the station and because said valid bot miners have decided hunting antags in maint is more important than doing their job with finite slots.

Tlaltecuhtli wrote: ashwalkers can have a race restricted recipe to craft key with bones so its not really a problem for them

Miners don't use bone gear. Miners powergame to the max. What does that tell you about bone gear? Also why should Ash Walkers and Non-miner miners be locked out of loot chests for killing tendrils? If they kill a tendril they have earned it just as much as a miner.

This Idea is ultimately about forcing miners to do their job without making everyone elses life difficult. And to double back to a previous point I made about public mining, since miners often do the minimum of their job to get loot then fuck off, non-miners often have to pick up the slack even though they lack the tools and even ORM access.

chocolate_bickie wrote:

Tlaltecuhtli wrote: ashwalkers can have a race restricted recipe to craft key with bones so its not really a problem for them

Miners don't use bone gear. Miners powergame to the max. What does that tell you about bone gear? Also why should Ash Walkers and Non-miner miners be locked out of loot chests for killing tendrils? If they kill a tendril they have earned it just as much as a miner.

This Idea is ultimately about forcing miners to do their job without making everyone elses life difficult. And to double back to a previous point I made about public mining, since miners often do the minimum of their job to get loot then fuck off, non-miners often have to pick up the slack even though they lack the tools and even ORM access.

With all do respect are you mentally impaired? How can you miss a point that badly? He's GIVING ASHWALKERS A RACE-EXCLUSIVE WAY TO OPEN CHESTS YOU RETARD

thehogshotgun wrote:
With all do respect are you mentally impaired? How can you miss a point that badly? He's GIVING ASHWALKERS A RACE-EXCLUSIVE WAY TO OPEN CHESTS YOU RETARD

My miner hateboner overtook the part of my brain used for reading. I thought he said ''Ash Walkers have bone gear so they don't need tendril loot'

Sorry Tlaltecuhtli. Bone keys is a good idea, but it does still block public access miners at least until a Public mining rewards vendor is added to Public mining

I've added a poll.

Sigh most of the time there's resource deficiency it's not because the miners are just trying to destroy tendrils or only going for gold/uranium/whatever else. In fact going for those minerals early is how miners actually get you mats faster. Since if none of the miners bother trying to get them on their first trip back, there's a good chance they'll be wasting time going back out to specifically get those resources later so they don't die to something stupid.

What really stops miners from getting you materials are other things. Miners can be antagonists, and kill the other miners or just fuck off. Lavaland is actually quite dangerous, enough so that even legendary power gamers get killed by roaming simplefauna(not tendril fauna) on occasion. Intermediary miners are easily killed by one of the most dangerous simple fauna, the ancient goliath and can easily get killed by something stupid or just stumbing into a megafauna on accident.

The primary thing nowadays when I'm a miner and science or general is yelling to get materials, it's because one of the miners committed suicide at the start of the shift and the other one died to something stupid and became souless, and no one else wanted to come mine to replace them and/or the HoP doesn't give a shit to replace dead miners.

Then there's other dumb things, like miners who fulton resources back so they can fight something "powergamey" and tell cargo&science about the materials sitting in mining office, but no one from cargo or science bothers to dump it for them.

I have 514 hours playing miner. I know why you aren't getting resources when you aren't getting them, it's not because "miners getting OP won't mine". It's because a single miner usually can't mine fast enough to cover the entire station's needs. Unless it's Icebox, then a single miner often can easily mine for the entire station.

If you give a miner the Clarke you will have every material you could ever want. Until it falls into one of those bullshit chasms. Have they removed them yet? I know they are in a couple ruins alongside the usual tendril BS

Why do they even HAVE signals? What is the purpose for that? Who thought it would be a good idea to allow miners to b-line for their game breaking gear?

compeltely remove miner gear and rename “shaft miner” to “rock jannie”

Delete miners and make all resources come form public miners. Much better than doing bounties for credits.

There has been some thought on splitting miner away from lavaland

oranges wrote:There has been some thought on splitting miner away from lavaland

Nooooo do not entertain that thought noooo