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Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:13 am
by Timbrewolf
Just spitballing an idea that might spice up some roleplay and get the Chaplain a little more love outside of cult rounds.

Make it so he's the only mob who can /pray. The Chaplain becomes the earthly go-between from the mortals (IC mobs) and the gods (badmins). You need cat ears, a paint bucket, or some random fun doodads? You better show some faith, then! Are you an antagonist who wants to propose some kind of trade or pact with the gods for your TC's? Get in that booth, confess your sins, and pray. Chaplains have a duty to keep such things between you, them, and their Gods but keep in mind there's no telling if he might be a traitor too, or something worse.

As an admin I would be a lot more inclined to answer prayers from people that actually made the effort to act this out with the Chaplain, and it would cut down a lot on the stupid MAKE ME XENO PLS prayers we get constantly. Players would still be able to adminhelp actual problems of course (I'm stuck! This thing glitched! Halp space griff me!) but any requests for divine gifts and favors have to go through the station's conduit for that stuff.

Anyone old enough to remember when the Chaplain could hear ghosts knows he used to have a lot more unique position on the station, and nowadays he's just a dude in a robe who nominally nobody gives a shit about but randomly becomes super important during cult.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:17 am
by Steelpoint
If this change is made, admins would need to hear a *ping whenever the Chaplain makes a prayer, the biggest problem with prayers (aside from most of them being absurd) is that its really easy for admins to miss them as there's no indicator of one being made.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:22 am
by Timbrewolf
That's a good idea too.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:09 am
by Boredone
I've seen some admins have people pray to volunteer for events or testing stuff though. Wouldn't this cause problems with that?

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:13 am
by paprika
Can it play a "HALLELUJAH" sound from Worms every time the chaplain sends/recieves a prayer to an admin

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:15 am
by Saegrimr
Boredone wrote:I've seen some admins have people pray to volunteer for events or testing stuff though. Wouldn't this cause problems with that?


I'd imagine it'd switch to "ahelp for (thing)".

I dunno, kinda torn between this. Sounds like a lot of fun for the chaplain and would put the chapel to a lot more use, but you'll lose out on a lot of remote situations like a story a while back where people got trapped in an away mission, set up an altar of some kind and prayed for a way back.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:23 am
by miggles
what if you just made chaplain prayers more noticeable for admins IE bolded text and a noise notification while normal prayers were as they are now, barely noticeable and usually not worth reading
sort of like anti-net neutrality, except with prayers. want direct access to admins? you better be one pious motherfucker or suffer like the rest of the plebs who didnt pay for the chaplain dlc.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:50 am
by beequeen
Antags should be allowed/prioritized too, in the event that someone wants pine trees. Or it could be moved to adminhelp, but I'd imagine that would get annoying/confusing.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:17 am
by DemonFiren
paprika wrote:Can it play a "HALLELUJAH" sound from Worms every time the chaplain sends/recieves a prayer to an admin


Paprika had a good idea, I believe it not.
For reference:
Spoiler:

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:35 am
by capi duffman
I like it, you give the chaplain a lot more of potential.
Also it could be implemented as an ON/OFF option, restricting payer when the chaplain is on and active, and lifting the restriction for "pray for event" or if the chaplain hasn't joined the station yet.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:50 am
by Duncdar
And, how would it affect ghosts? Would their prayer ability be changed?

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:20 pm
by Stickymayhem
Hallelujah sound for the chaplain, give it a decent cooldown and encourage admins to answer them.

Keep in mind that this is all chaplains have, so if it happens they will be praying every time they get the chance. Might get irritating.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:44 pm
by Steelpoint
Give admins the ability to "expel" (or something) a Chaplain that spams out bad prayers. Set it up so at first a admin can send a "warning" to the Chaplain that they are angering a higher power and they should reign themselves in, and if they continue they will be blocked from praying to their higher power.

Also, and minor point, we should leave it somewhat ambiguous as to what exactly the Chaplain is praying to. Maybe its a god, or central command or nar sie or whatever lives in deep space. Just leave a bit of mystery. It would also encourge individual Chaplains to think of their own interpretations.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:46 pm
by RG4
paprika wrote:Can it play a "HALLELUJAH" sound from Worms every time the chaplain sends/recieves a prayer to an admin

This easily is one of Pap's greatest ideas, his magnus opus.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:53 pm
by Saegrimr
Steelpoint wrote:Give admins the ability to "expel" (or something) a Chaplain that spams out bad prayers. Set it up so at first a admin can send a "warning" to the Chaplain that they are angering a higher power and they should reign themselves in, and if they continue they will be blocked from praying to their higher power.

Also, and minor point, we should leave it somewhat ambiguous as to what exactly the Chaplain is praying to. Maybe its a god, or central command or nar sie or whatever lives in deep space. Just leave a bit of mystery. It would also encourge individual Chaplains to think of their own interpretations.


All of this pretty much already exists in some form or another.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:15 pm
by dezzmont
RG4 wrote:
paprika wrote:Can it play a "HALLELUJAH" sound from Worms every time the chaplain sends/recieves a prayer to an admin

This easily is one of Pap's greatest ideas, his magnus opus.


Pet job slots were better.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:31 pm
by Fragnostic
Yes. Chaplain will have a more important role to play instead of securing that job slot to get a brute 15 weapon that fits in your pocket. I think this will actually lead to use of the confession booth, as long as it is 100% confidential. The only thing I suggest is that Chaplain should not be able to ask for anything for himself. I think we should encourage interaction by making players warm up/soften the chaplain into throwing a good word in to RNGesus. The traitor could give something to the Chaplain. I hope that maybe pray be taken seriously this time, as well as the role. But there's going to be a new-phoria over this, just like any feature added, and that's why I suggest the chaplain cannot pray for self-gain. Maybe when a Chaplain prays, their mob is overtaken briefly by a holy veil, like the sprite for cold resistance. Just momentarily, to let a player know their prayer went through. If there are no admins online, the aura flickers and the Chaplain is notified.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:25 pm
by Scones
Pray is a nice tool for antags who want to mix things up.

Similarly, it's always fun when admins have conversations as diety to recepient: The other day, Fayrik had a long conversation with myself as a borg about the meaning of belief and emotion in a silicon context. This tool shouldn't be limited to Chaplain.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:03 pm
by TheWiznard
Steelpoint wrote:Also, and minor point, we should leave it somewhat ambiguous as to what exactly the Chaplain is praying to. Maybe its a god, or central command or nar sie or whatever lives in deep space. Just leave a bit of mystery. It would also encourage individual Chaplains to think of their own interpretations.


I thought that when you make your religion at the start of the round it prompts you to enter your gods name, but then you never see it used anywhere. What if somehow you used that name they choose as the default name that the chaplain prays to/is answered by?

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:21 pm
by Saegrimr
Fuck that'd be funny as hell to just replace the "You hear a voice in your head... (text)" with "You hear the voice of SHITSTICKER THE PUPPY KICKER... (text)" for fucking everybody, based on whatever the chaplain chose.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:40 pm
by Bombadil
Perhaps the chaplains pray shoud just be elevated over other prayers

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:52 pm
by Timbrewolf
Making the chaplain's prayers appear differently while retaining everyone else's ability to pray don't accomplish what we're trying to do here.

The core idea is to create more IC roleplay interactions between players. If people can still /pray for things themselves they're not going to bother visiting the Chaplain. They can do that right now and nobody bothers.

Cecily wrote:Pray is a nice tool for antags who want to mix things up.


That's what the confessional should be used for.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:14 pm
by Loonikus
I would be very concerned with the chaplain simply PDAing security as soon as I mention anything suspicious.

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:16 pm
by Violaceus
PostThis post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
Reason: Requested

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:22 pm
by danno
No.
There has been way too much fun shit that has happened because of prayers from players, a lot of which were not the chaplain.
This is not worth it. There are a lot of other ways to make the chaplain more relevant.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:23 pm
by Bombadil
An0n3 wrote:Making the chaplain's prayers appear differently while retaining everyone else's ability to pray don't accomplish what we're trying to do here.

The core idea is to create more IC roleplay interactions between players. If people can still /pray for things themselves they're not going to bother visiting the Chaplain. They can do that right now and nobody bothers.

Cecily wrote:Pray is a nice tool for antags who want to mix things up.


That's what the confessional should be used for.

So your saying Antags should confess to the chaplain they are traitors so that traitors can trade their tc for some gimmick? I'm sure the chaplain won't pda HoS and have me taken off

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:44 pm
by MMMiracles
I mean if the chaplain is capable of not being a chelper and realize a good rp situation then you're good. Help people not gun for their valid just because.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:55 pm
by Fatal
An altar for prayer would be good, but one that needed the Chaplain to setup

Something like, needing two blessed candles to be lit before the altar would work, and then it will accept one prayer, then the candles burn away instantly letting you know someone has prayed

Adding more stuff around the altar to appease the SPESS GODS would be cool too

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:04 pm
by Loonikus
Bombadil wrote: So your saying Antags should confess to the chaplain they are traitors so that traitors can trade their tc for some gimmick? I'm sure the chaplain won't pda HoS and have me taken off


Well, an antagonist doesn't have to confess. Its up to them if they want to take that risk.

Besides, if I was Spess God, I'd be pretty pissed at my chaplain if he sent someone I had plans for to perma. Maybe pissed enough to let the ghost of the late antag haunt his ass or maybe turn him into a space carp or something.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:22 pm
by Wyzack
I think it sounds cool, and would definitely make me play more pious. Maybe have an OOC nondisclosure policy between chappy and sec/others, where ratting out antags is against the faith and nets you a warning?

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:25 pm
by Violaceus
PostThis post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
Reason: Requested

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:27 pm
by Wyzack
couldn't they just ahelp for that function now?

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:44 pm
by Violaceus
PostThis post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
Reason: Requested

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:53 pm
by Timbrewolf
danno wrote:No.
There has been way too much fun shit that has happened because of prayers from players, a lot of which were not the chaplain.
This is not worth it. There are a lot of other ways to make the chaplain more relevant.


They can still make those requests they just have to involve the holyman that is there on the station.

Plus:

Loonikus wrote:
Bombadil wrote: So your saying Antags should confess to the chaplain they are traitors so that traitors can trade their tc for some gimmick? I'm sure the chaplain won't pda HoS and have me taken off


Well, an antagonist doesn't have to confess. Its up to them if they want to take that risk.

Besides, if I was Spess God, I'd be pretty pissed at my chaplain if he sent someone I had plans for to perma. Maybe pissed enough to let the ghost of the late antag haunt his ass or maybe turn him into a space carp or something.


Wyzack wrote:I think it sounds cool, and would definitely make me play more pious. Maybe have an OOC nondisclosure policy between chappy and sec/others, where ratting out antags is against the faith and nets you a warning?


Yeah. "You mean you took someone who was going to pray to ME, and you ratted them out to your mortal arbiters? Sounds like someone is putting other idols before! TIME FOR SMITE."

Also if you have ideas for fun gimmicks/events putting Chaplain up higher in your priority list might be worth considering.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:02 pm
by danno
An0n3 wrote:
danno wrote:No.
There has been way too much fun shit that has happened because of prayers from players, a lot of which were not the chaplain.
This is not worth it. There are a lot of other ways to make the chaplain more relevant.


They can still make those requests they just have to involve the holyman that is there on the station.


No chaplain on station?
Fucked.

Chaplain is new, a shitter, or just doesn't feel like doing his job?
Fucked.

Chaplain dead?
Fucked.

In a situation that might be time reliant or have some other kind of factor to it where a prayer would be appropriate, but you can't see the chaplain?
Fucked.

This removes too many opportunities for fun and RP and shit to justify it. This is not the way to improve chaplain.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:14 pm
by Iceb3rg
No.
You will ruin The Black Crow's religious fanaticism, and thus be ruining the most Robut motherfucker on the station.
I feel that everyone should be able to pray, and that there could be a better way to bring RP to Sybil.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:41 pm
by miggles
people wont go to the chaplain to pray for things
in situations where they would normally pray, IE they are dying or lost or something, they either cant or would not think to visit the chaplain
in situations where they might think up something to pray randomly, theyll look for it in the ic tab, remember that they cant pray anymore, say "god damn it" (or not because they cant even pray to a god) and quit trying
as dannos said there are much better ways to make the chaplain relevant other than making everyone else come to him. like a real missionary, it should be his goal to gather others by himself.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:57 pm
by Timbrewolf
Iceb3rg wrote:I feel that everyone should be able to pray, and that there could be a better way to bring RP to Sybil.


This improves the Chaplains position on both stations.

danno wrote:
An0n3 wrote:
danno wrote:No.
There has been way too much fun shit that has happened because of prayers from players, a lot of which were not the chaplain.
This is not worth it. There are a lot of other ways to make the chaplain more relevant.


They can still make those requests they just have to involve the holyman that is there on the station.


No chaplain on station?
Fucked.

Chaplain is new, a shitter, or just doesn't feel like doing his job?
Fucked.

Chaplain dead?
Fucked.

In a situation that might be time reliant or have some other kind of factor to it where a prayer would be appropriate, but you can't see the chaplain?
Fucked.

This removes too many opportunities for fun and RP and shit to justify it. This is not the way to improve chaplain.


If you're looking for an opportunity for fun RP why would you complain about having to interact with another player to start it?
If the chaplain is dead things are probably already taking place in the round enough that we don't need to go messing with things via badminnery powered prayers.

You act like the average player prayer is a solid gold precious thing when the truth is the overwhelming majority of them are pure crap. One of the hopes here is that the Chaplain will filter these things a little or find ways to make them more attractive beyond HEY MAKE ME A XENO I HAVE A GREAT IDEA (I'm going to try to be friendly XDDDDD )

If most prayers were for little personal things that weren't obtrusive then I'd say yeah, it's fine, we should give everyone the ability to pray. But the bulk of all prayers are for someone to be made into a major antagonist or otherwise completely alter the round without offering anything or putting in any effort to make it an actual "prayer" IC. If people want to keep making those kinds of requests they should be doing something or giving something up if they expect to even get heard.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:21 am
by PKPenguin321
Sorry but no, this is not an idea I want backed.
Let's look at an example story, fresh off of singulo.io.
Spoiler:
>be on away mission
>gateway on station is blown up by tator
>three of us trapped
>look for ways of escape, rendezvous
>find cult-looking room with rune in the center
>bring goats from the kitchen, kill them, place on rune
>all of us pray to be taken home
>appear at the station with the other two as demons and gibs fly around us


Plot twist, I wrote this story, because it happened to me and it remains one of my most memorable moments from this game. It was a completely roleplay fueled scenario that managed to be extremely fun, and thanks to praying it ended on a very exciting note that remains memorable to this day.

Notice there's no chaplain stranded with us. Would we have gotten back if only chaplains could pray? No. Would I have this story and fond experience? No. Would we have had this chance to roleplay like you admins have been begging us to? No.

"B-but you could j-just ahelp," I hear you cry. Let me tell you why this is wrong.
>Wanting RP scenarios to be dependent on something very ooc and immersion breaking
>Wanting to clog the administrative channel with IC content
>Using something exactly like a prayer but not when you could just leave in the prayer function

Why the fuck would you remove the prayer function and lose all of this RP potential (especially when you guys have been screaming on the forums, singulo, and even the fucking github that we don't RP enough) just to make "muh roleplay chaplain job" more snowflakey? If you want to make the chaplain's prayers special, make them have a different notification to admins so they get noticed more often or something, don't fucking remove the prayer function from everyone but him.

tl;dr: >trying to enhance roleplay by limiting it to one job

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:13 am
by lumipharon
One of two things would happen with this change.

1: People will just ahelp instead of pray, which defeats the purpose
2: most people will never get prayers out, either because they don't want to go through the chaplain (hello chaplain, can you ask your god to give me fireball so I can kill everyone?), or the chaplain chooses not to/is dead/doesn't even exist.

So this sounds nice, but I think it's dumb in practice. Limiting prayer to one job doesn't create more RP any more then making the AI the only thing on the station that can operate doors.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:15 am
by danno
"dumb in practice" basically sums this up.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:33 am
by Antimattercarp
So consensus is to make chaplain prayers more visible

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:41 am
by WeeYakk
An0n3 wrote:Yeah. "You mean you took someone who was going to pray to ME, and you ratted them out to your mortal arbiters? Sounds like someone is putting other idols before! TIME FOR SMITE."


What if I worship a god of justice who would want me to do so? You'd have to remove what little agency chaplain players have in their job to make sure they don't worship the god of valids and rat out anyone who wants to trade TCs for cool stuff.

Dumb idea tbvh.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:41 am
by Saegrimr
An0n3 wrote:If most prayers were for little personal things that weren't obtrusive then I'd say yeah, it's fine, we should give everyone the ability to pray. But the bulk of all prayers are for someone to be made into a major antagonist or otherwise completely alter the round without offering anything or putting in any effort to make it an actual "prayer" IC. If people want to keep making those kinds of requests they should be doing something or giving something up if they expect to even get heard.


You know the more we look back at all the stupid prayers we get, the more I think we should get a "Smite" button that calls down furious lightning, putting them near crit with big red text "YOUR PRAYER WAS FUCKING STUPID."
That'd probably cut down on shitty prayers after a while.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:45 am
by lumipharon
I used to be an admin on a
Spoiler:
cod4
server with a mod called obscurity, that a friend created. Anyway, it had a smite button in his custom admin panel, which we used on tards as a warning instead of a ban. Fuck it was satisfying to use though.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:13 pm
by AnonymousNow
Put normal prayers on a cooldown. Make chaplain prayers unlimited. Give them both notification noises for admins - bing for normal prayers, bingbongdingdong for chaplains. Make it server policy to give prayers more weight if they're from the chaplain, and/or they're offering a sacrifice in exchange for something, and/or the player praying is in dire trouble.

Three heavily injured people in a room with a cold, airless catwalk in space waiting outside and stopping them from reaching freedom? Don't just spawn a biscuit. Though that biscuit DID help, nominally, to get one of us healthy enough to drag the other two into the next corridor...

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 8:54 pm
by JJRcop
You know guys you could always just say your prayers aloud with in-game chat. And if you're lucky, or someone in deadchat saw it, they could always relay it to admins. Actually, if you can't use the chaplain, you can always build your own altar that blows the chapel out of the water, attract admins who are in awe of your work, and pray using in-game chat. The pray verb is not essential, and this would not make praying without the chaplain impossible, it just kinda requires you to do stuff to actually make the "gods" notice you.

I like the idea.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:01 pm
by Scones
Praying is an IC way to request minor favors, in some cases, without using adminhelp which is for OOC -issues-

Let's say I'm doing a construction project and need something removed to finish it up, something like... Those indestructible fucking mirrors. Why shouldn't I be able to just pray something along the lines of OH GREAT AND POWERFUL GODS OF INTERIOR DECORATING BLAH BLAH? The alternative is to either not finish what I'm doing, or adminhelp, which just feels awkward.

What the fuck do I do when nobody is playing Chaplain? This will hardly incentivize the job and it's rarely picked in the first place. It's been ages since I saw a Chaplain on Basil.

This is not the way to make Chaplain more interesting.

Re: Only the Chaplain Can Pray

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:48 pm
by Scott
Instead of removing the ability for faithful spessmen to pray, why not give the chaplain a special pray verb that makes a noise and is on a cooldown?

[Deleted]

PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 10:03 pm
by Violaceus
PostThis post was deleted by MrStonedOne on Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:46 pm.
Reason: Requested