Antagonist Teams

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Cosmodeus
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:53 pm
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Antagonist Teams

Post by Cosmodeus » #617658

Introduction

There was an argument in the discord about why revs where better then cultists at being successful overall. Most people couldn't formulate the reasons, let alone abstract titles for said formulations, but overall, it boils down to organization. Cult players just aren't as organized as rev players. Lots of players metagame where they already know each other and each others behavior, so they give each other special treatment no matter what alignment a player is. Because of this, I came up with an idea to give antagonists more of an edge without making them overpowered like the blob, dragon, or a god tier miner with a hierophant staff.

Antagonist Teams

The way this works is similar to that of how players claim to be "ready" when the round begins. Instead, antagonist teams puts players in teams with other players who have to accept being in a team before the round begins. When the round begins, if an antagonist like cult, revolutionaries, and nuke ops are selected, then 2/3rds of the members of the antagonist selected will be from the antagonist team, while the 1/3rd left will be randoms. Antagonist teams doesn't apply to other types of antagonists that don't normally organize or organization is optional, such as syndicates, changelings, ect.

What This Will Do

This will make it harder for players that intentionally sabotage rounds for team based traitors, to do so. This will make it easier for cult to organize. This will not really help revs too much because revs really don't need to organize to win, but it will still make them more formidable. Almost all antagonist are easy pickings for a ready crew, so certain head of staff players can easily single handedly take out many of these different types of antagonists, but with antagonist teams, it makes it more difficult because they are by default more organized and less likely to make mistakes. Players already metagame and metacommunicate with each other, so this won't really give new opportunities for them to do so and rat their team mates out, as they're less likely to team with someone they wouldn't have metacommunicated with in the first place(This should be common sense).
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Armhulen
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by Armhulen » #617722

This entire idea doesn't make sense because the real answer on why the average rev is better than the average cultist is that revs have no additional mechanics to learn and almost every player knows how to attack people. at the very least cultists need to know how to use the conversion rune and the handstun which requires a bit of self carving
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Jonathan Gupta
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #617724

Armhulen wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:07 am This entire idea doesn't make sense because the real answer on why the average rev is better than the average cultist is that revs have no additional mechanics to learn and almost every player knows how to attack people. at the very least cultists need to know how to use the conversion rune and the handstun which requires a bit of self carbing
I slowly nodded my head and chuckled, that being said I uh revs hardstun is pretty op(Im suprised they cant deal with one seccie more often)

revs you don't need to learn runes(JUST TELL THEM TO FUCKING ASK OR EXAMINE THE RUNES THEY MAKE)

Cult is more op but you have newbies 50-60% of the time due to mass conversion(Same with revs but you just need to attack people)
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EuSouAFazenda
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by EuSouAFazenda » #617735

Cult:
Ok so you gotta do these spells so you can have a on-field presence but before that you gotta make these runes to convert people and-

Rev:
Tide. Go.
I remade the beach away mission
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Armhulen
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by Armhulen » #617736

EuSouAFazenda wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 9:16 am Cult:
Ok so you gotta do these spells so you can have a on-field presence but before that you gotta make these runes to convert people and-

Rev:
Tide. Go.
ding ding ding

shadowling thralls even worked way better than cult did since they had a single ability and a single objective the ability greatly helped with
cacogen
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by cacogen » #617742

Having to carve my arm to cast a spell stopped me from doing anything but a teleport rune to go where the bigtext guy was telling us to head. Creating runes takes time, it feels like you're going to kill yourself if you do it too often, the menu is not TGUI but the default screen-hogging ugly BYOND one and it's not obvious what some of the options do. I think these things discourage experimentation and encourage standing around waiting to be told what to do by someone who knows what they're doing (which never happens). If you could shit out runes more reliably you'd have more of an idea what everything did and from there you could figure out what you were supposed to do with them. Or at least the act of carving them gives the impression that this is a dangerous thing that you shouldn't be playing around with if you don't want to die. I am not going to read the wiki article and after being converted it's often not a good time to anyway.
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Jonathan Gupta
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #617743

I have had to memorize the whole cult system and always gotta immediately go cult leader or see cult suffer, it is a pain in the ass most of the time.
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Valorium
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by Valorium » #617901

On a slightly different subject, I think that the game could certainly benefit from more "small, unchanging team" antagonists, wherein you have a small group of about 3-5 people in a team together that doesn't grow smaller or larger. Right now, the only antagonists that fit this bill are Nuclear Operatives, Fugitives/Hunters (which are so tragically rare that they may as well not exist) and, on occasion, Changeling hives. Something I'd like to see added would be a modified version of Blood Brothers which created a group of a few traitors-sans-uplink that have about six objectives between them, all of which need to be completed before round-end. That resolves an issue with Blood Brothers (namely, if one person just goes SSD or otherwise, then there are other people to help you pick up the slack). If that was implemented, I would hope that we'd nix the "everyone has to escape" objective just because of the number of moving parts involved in doing so.
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Jonathan Gupta
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Re: Antagonist Teams

Post by Jonathan Gupta » #617906

cacogen wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:50 pm Having to carve my arm to cast a spell stopped me from doing anything but a teleport rune to go where the bigtext guy was telling us to head. Creating runes takes time, it feels like you're going to kill yourself if you do it too often, the menu is not TGUI but the default screen-hogging ugly BYOND one and it's not obvious what some of the options do. I think these things discourage experimentation and encourage standing around waiting to be told what to do by someone who knows what they're doing (which never happens). If you could shit out runes more reliably you'd have more of an idea what everything did and from there you could figure out what you were supposed to do with them. Or at least the act of carving them gives the impression that this is a dangerous thing that you shouldn't be playing around with if you don't want to die. I am not going to read the wiki article and after being converted it's often not a good time to anyway.
it barely hurts you.
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