/tg/Station 13

Don't think there are many who would disagree that this is an issue, given that having access to the circuit printer enables you to to subvert/unsubvert the AI in a matter of about a minute tops. Team antag rounds often get in a battle with competing uploads slapping boards on them as fast as they can click until a admin has mercy and malfs the AI. Potential ideas to make it more difficult / dynamic:

1. Make it take some time to upload a law, and give the AI the "Network Intrusion detected" message.

2. Restrict the law uploading to a specific area, or make it a unique/hard to build machine that does it.

3. Remove upload consoles entirely and require slapping boards on the core. Would severely limit antags, but would make it harder to "fix" the AI as well.

4. Put restrictions on "maint uploads" printed elsewhere, but leave the actual upload alone.

Thoughts?

I disagree. Being able to upload AIs as is has been around for a long long time, and offers a great meta as it is.
If you can steal an AI upload board from secure storage, and pay the telecrystals, you can subvert the AI. If you can get into the upload and disable the turrets with all access/emag, you can subvert the AI.

If there were to be a change, it would be consolidating AI and Cyborg upload into a single computer, that allows changes to AIs and all borgs under them, or individual borgs.

I would like something done about the ai upload tug of war, can law boards be single use?

Helios wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 am I disagree. Being able to upload AIs as is has been around for a long long time, and offers a great meta as it is.
If you can steal an AI upload board from secure storage, and pay the telecrystals, you can subvert the AI. If you can get into the upload and disable the turrets with all access/emag, you can subvert the AI.

If there were to be a change, it would be consolidating AI and Cyborg upload into a single computer, that allows changes to AIs and all borgs under them, or individual borgs.

None of those things are issues I have with the current system. The issue I have is the ability to print an upload, purge, and freeform board from the circuit printer, built a console, and subvert the AI in a span of a minute from anywhere on the station. Or "unsubvert" it just as easily.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:03 am I would like something done about the ai upload tug of war, can law boards be single use?

Maybe not law boards, freeforms can require you to upload multiple laws to get a working custom lawset.
Purge boards being a 1 time use would be an interesting change. Give it a different sprite, and say it's a purge emergency reset board

make more freeform boards! I think all upload boards should be single use

Helios wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:13 am Maybe not law boards, freeforms can require you to upload multiple laws to get a working custom lawset.
Purge boards being a 1 time use would be an interesting change. Give it a different sprite, and say it's a purge emergency reset board

Maybe, as a compromise, the boards inside the upload itself are multi-use, and you can only print off emergency boards. Traitor boards should be multi-use or have their cost reduced.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:35 am Maybe, as a compromise, the boards inside the upload itself are multi-use, and you can only print off emergency boards. Traitor boards should be multi-use or have their cost reduced.

Yeah, something like that would actually make the upload marginally more valuable. The upload boards could even be considered high-risk items as a new objective.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:03 am I would like something done about the ai upload tug of war, can law boards be single use?

This is the solution I've always been fond of

blech, only for printed boards. Make the actual AI upload boards Premium Boards or something so command staff can futz about with the AI if they please

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:34 pm blech, only for printed boards. Make the actual AI upload boards Premium Boards or something so command staff can futz about with the AI if they please

Doing something like this would have a new hisk-risk item with the premium boards, and could potentially be a new objective.

mstachife wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:36 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:34 pm blech, only for printed boards. Make the actual AI upload boards Premium Boards or something so command staff can futz about with the AI if they please

Doing something like this would have a new hisk-risk item with the premium boards, and could potentially be a new objective.

Darn skippy it would

Add a cooldown to changing AI laws? If one already exists to prevent spam, lengthen it? Making boards one-use would be a pain.

single use boards and probably after n uploads from teh console, it's position is logged to the telecomms traffic computer in the tcomms room.

Anything to end the tug-of-war with re-lawing the AI repeatedly would be welcome, from an AI main. I... despise those moments where some dickweed with a console somewhere in maint thinks I need to be purged because they disagree how I interpret the snowflake ass lawset that the HoS insisted I get installed.

Imagine fighting your way into the AI upload past the turrets to fix a rogue AI only to realise the boards you need to do so aren't there because they've already been used to fix this problem once and a scientist with their own AI upload and access to unlimited boards has resubverted it and now you need to break into tech storage or the appropriate circuit imprinter hoping they'll be there. It seems to me a cooldown on uploading laws per AI would be better for both the AI and the players tasked with fixing it.

I like the idea to have 2 versions of the boards

Master circuit board: Unlimited uses, found in upload and tech storage

Circuit board copy: From circuit printer, 1 use.

single use boards and probably after n uploads from teh console, it's position is logged to the telecomms traffic computer in the tcomms room.

Honestly doing this every time is fine I think.

Korusho wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 12:55 am Anything to end the tug-of-war with re-lawing the AI repeatedly would be welcome, from an AI main. I... despise those moments where some dickweed with a console somewhere in maint thinks I need to be purged because they disagree how I interpret the snowflake ass lawset that the HoS insisted I get installed.

whats wrong with being purged