/tg/Station 13

I had this idea awhile ago and I think I've mentioned it a few times on here but I'm feeling overtired enough at the moment to actually create a thread about it so here goes.

We use the persistence subsystem to load map templates of players' saved dorm rooms (presumably the same size as current dorms) before roundstart on a different z-level to the station in a similar layout to how dorms are configured now. We do it on a different z-level for more space and to avoid a tumorous extremity jutting out of the station. Presumably, we use double walls between dorms so you can put stuff on the wall without the next dorm in the list overwriting it.

If a map template doesn't exist for a given player, we assign them a new dorm which is then packaged at the end of the round and saved as a map template by persistence. Part of this packaging would involve getting rid of anything that isn't on a whitelist. These would be things like objective items, other items that affect balance and anything that shouldn't be in a dorm room roundstart.

The things on the whitelist would be stuff like closets, beds, posters, certain types of flooring, basic items of clothing, etc. The point would not be to give players a place to stash valuable or unique items for future rounds, but a place for players to express their individuality and creativity using freely available, common items that don't have a bearing on the round.

At roundstart you would be told your dorm number for the shift (this would obviously vary between shifts depending on where your dorm ended up in the generated level) so you could find it among the halls of generated dorms. You would then be able to unlock it with specific means (probably a randomly generated keycode known only to you).

I don't know if it would be possible to break into these dorms through the airlock or the walls or whether they would be destructible at all. I can imagine bombing would be an easy way to grief a lot of people's creations at once, which would reduce the amount of people willing to invest time in the system.

At the same time, I don't like OOC means of preventing normal interaction with the game (like what the luxury shuttle does to prevent people bypassing the scanner gates) and think maybe a dorm getting destroyed is just part of the game.

The only other issues I can see with this is the performance overhead, which I'm not really sure of and the possibility that after the novelty wears off people won't really want to interact with empty rooms that are off the z-level.

half of the station would have to be dorm rooms for every single person to have their own dorm
maybe something like claiming a dorm instead of everyone having a dorm

cacogen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:24 pm Presumably, we use double walls between dorms so you can put stuff on the wall without the next dorm in the list overwriting it.

I'm not sure about posters, but things like APCs are actually technically on the tile in front of the wall (this is why you can use an APC when there's an empty tile in between you and the wall it's on) so if posters work like that too then double walls shouldn't be necessary.

cacogen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:24 pm I can imagine bombing would be an easy way to grief a lot of people's creations at once, which would reduce the amount of people willing to invest time in the system.

Perhaps instead of the room being saved at the end of the round, players can manually save the room somehow? That way you can still maxcap dorms or whatever without it affecting that room in future rounds.

BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:58 pm half of the station would have to be dorm rooms for every single person to have their own dorm
maybe something like claiming a dorm instead of everyone having a dorm

In theory multi-Z could make it work. But it would still be big. Unless you were assigned to a barrack or had a bunkmate.

could make it bluespace, and buyable...

Everyone has a round-persistent dorm that is separate from the station. You can go there when you die and invite other dead people. You can decorate it with furniture which you get by donating to /tg/ or spending antag tokens.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:30 pmwhich you get by donating to /tg/ or spending antag tokens.

No

Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:33 pm

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:30 pmwhich you get by donating to /tg/ or spending antag tokens.

No

Dear Mr. Gupta,
Forgive me if my message was +obtuse or unclear+, but it was neither serious nor profound.
Best regards,
[/s]

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:30 pm Everyone has a round-persistent dorm that is separate from the station. You can go there when you die and invite other dead people. You can decorate it with furniture which you get by donating to /tg/ or spending antag tokens.

This is kind of like Habbo Hotel and I really hated how player-owned houses when they eventually got to RuneScape (and this was a feature people waited many years for) they were all separate from one another so 95% of the time they were completely dead. Just you fucking around on a level you had to invite other people to for anyone to be there. The Sims Online was the same, unless you had other people living on the same lot as you. I think gating it behind death would limit people's access to it too much to the point nobody would use it. GoonStation has stuff you can do after death and it sucks and nobody ever uses it. Most of our ghost roles go untouched most rounds too.

Jonathan Gupta wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:01 am could make it bluespace, and buyable...

I was thinking maybe if an entire z-level was too much or it was too much in terms of performance then maybe it could be applied to something like the bluespace shelter capsules instead. Where their interiors can persist somehow. Maybe swiping your ID on one would cause it to spawn with your configuration (if you had one saved for that type of capsule) and as Donpedrito suggested you could save it manually somehow so it could be loaded in later rounds.

Back in the day smugglers satchels would let you smuggle items between rounds.

It was terrible and only saw use in the most abusive ways.

which is why it would work off a whitelist instead of a blacklist

I think it's a really cool idea but I genuinely don't know how you'd give everyone a room, or even ration out the rooms if you're not planning on doing that

I think some form of this would be pretty fun, reminds me of the Secret Bases from Pokemon.

I think it would be more feasible if the dorm rooms that already exist could have player rooms "loaded" or load them into the holodeck. Either way we can lampshade how it's done with sci-fi and call it a day.

Don't like it. Don't know precisely why outside of the overhead.

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:14 am Don't like it. Don't know precisely why outside of the overhead.

simply making the dorm rooms personalized would look soulful for that map"s dorms, instead of default unowned undecorated rooms

People would be cringe about it, plus if we go with the dorm dimension idea we've effectively made lavaland again

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:26 am

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:14 am Don't like it. Don't know precisely why outside of the overhead.

simply making the dorm rooms personalized would look soulful for that map"s dorms, instead of default unowned undecorated rooms

i kinda like that actually maybe the existing dorms just persist and you can do what you like to them

i don't want to screw up their intended purpose though of providing a personal locker, a bed and having a lock

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:58 am People would be cringe about it, plus if we go with the dorm dimension idea we've effectively made lavaland again

yeah hard no on dorm dimensions

Dorm dimensions would suck. Half the fun potential of a personal dorm would be in the possibility of burglary, engaging in clandestine activity, and security barging in to search your belongings.

I don't think anyone would want 60 dorms jutting out the side of the station though

Put it on centcom, add a few room slots that can be loaded in, put in some facilities around it to use as tutorials or mess around so we can stop pretending that's what people use ghost roles for, let people respawn there when they die

I think it would be cool actually if you could just use the existing dorms on a map to load your own custom dorm and then save it when you wanted to. That way it would be in a place where most people could interact with it, it wouldn't only be available to observers, it wouldn't take up any extra space and if nobody used it then in theory it wouldn't cost extra performance.

cacogen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:18 pm I don't think anyone would want 60 dorms jutting out the side of the station though

then we're not gonna have 60 dorms

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:15 am

cacogen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:18 pm I don't think anyone would want 60 dorms jutting out the side of the station though

then we're not gonna have 60 dorms

What if we had 60 dorms but they didn't jut out?

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:17 am

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:15 am

cacogen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:18 pm I don't think anyone would want 60 dorms jutting out the side of the station though

then we're not gonna have 60 dorms

What if we had 60 dorms but they didn't jut out?

It would still be a ridiculous foot print on any station that has or has ever existed

which is why i suggested making it its own z-level in the first place, but in hindsight i don't think it would see enough use to justify it. it'd be better if it worked how rave suggested, where you can load your custom dorm into the spaces where the existing ones are.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:49 am

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:17 am

Armhulen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:15 am

cacogen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:18 pm I don't think anyone would want 60 dorms jutting out the side of the station though

then we're not gonna have 60 dorms

What if we had 60 dorms but they didn't jut out?

It would still be a ridiculous foot print on any station that has or has ever existed

I did a little napkin maths on it the other day- for 90 dorms (the number needed to account for our maximum pop on standard servers), you'd be looking at 1800 tiles for standard 3x2 dorms (including double thick walls, as specified in the original post), which is about a 45x45 space just on the rooms, without any connecting hallways. That's about 1/5th of the map width in each direction, and would cover the entirety of Delta's central hallway, including the bridge. Add in hallways and you'd need about the same space for dorms as you would for a department, if not more. There would be no nice way to fit it on any map we have.

EOBGames wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:26 amI did a little napkin maths on it the other day- for 90 dorms (the number needed to account for our maximum pop on standard servers), you'd be looking at 1800 tiles for standard 3x2 dorms (including double thick walls, as specified in the original post), which is about a 45x45 space just on the rooms, without any connecting hallways. That's about 1/5th of the map width in each direction, and would cover the entirety of Delta's central hallway, including the bridge. Add in hallways and you'd need about the same space for dorms as you would for a department, if not more. There would be no nice way to fit it on any map we have.

Does that math factor in multi-z?

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:40 am

EOBGames wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:26 amI did a little napkin maths on it the other day- for 90 dorms (the number needed to account for our maximum pop on standard servers), you'd be looking at 1800 tiles for standard 3x2 dorms (including double thick walls, as specified in the original post), which is about a 45x45 space just on the rooms, without any connecting hallways. That's about 1/5th of the map width in each direction, and would cover the entirety of Delta's central hallway, including the bridge. Add in hallways and you'd need about the same space for dorms as you would for a department, if not more. There would be no nice way to fit it on any map we have.

Does that math factor in multi-z?

This is agnostic of multi-z: regardless of how you divide it over z-levels, you're looking at 1800 tiles, which is a lot of space. To note as well: it doesn't make something less of a tumour slapped onto the station if it's on another level, particularly if it's the only thing on that level.

holodorms

You have 10 dorms, and you request your dorm via dorm number on a console, just like the holodeck.

EOBGames wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:38 am To note as well: it doesn't make something less of a tumour slapped onto the station if it's on another level, particularly if it's the only thing on that level.

If it were its own dedicated structure underneath the station then it wouldn't be a tumourous protusion that negatively affected the silhouette of the station. But in hindsight I don't think enough people would interact with the dorms to warrant them taking up so much space. Making them holodorms or at least something that can be spawned like a bluespace shelter capsule in the spots where the existing dorms are is a better idea.

Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:32 pm holodorms

You have 10 dorms, and you request your dorm via dorm number on a console, just like the holodeck.

Making them holographic could be a good idea for balance purposes. Can't take anything out and anything saved does holographic damage instead of real damage.

cacogen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:10 pm

EOBGames wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:38 am To note as well: it doesn't make something less of a tumour slapped onto the station if it's on another level, particularly if it's the only thing on that level.

If it were its own dedicated structure underneath the station then it wouldn't be a tumourous protusion that negatively affected the silhouette of the station. But in hindsight I don't think enough people would interact with the dorms to warrant them taking up so much space. Making them holodorms or at least something that can be spawned like a bluespace shelter capsule in the spots where the existing dorms are is a better idea.

Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 2:32 pm holodorms

You have 10 dorms, and you request your dorm via dorm number on a console, just like the holodeck.

Making them holographic could be a good idea for balance purposes. Can't take anything out and anything saved does holographic damage instead of real damage.

Plus you can pay money for prefab fancydorms as a form of progression purely for bragging rights.

Maybe temporarily so there isn't a permanent class system

cacogen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 3:10 pm

EOBGames wrote: ↑Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:38 am To note as well: it doesn't make something less of a tumour slapped onto the station if it's on another level, particularly if it's the only thing on that level.

If it were its own dedicated structure underneath the station then it wouldn't be a tumourous protusion that negatively affected the silhouette of the station. But in hindsight I don't think enough people would interact with the dorms to warrant them taking up so much space. Making them holodorms or at least something that can be spawned like a bluespace shelter capsule in the spots where the existing dorms are is a better idea.

Again, it doesn't make it less of a tumour if it's the only thing on its level- if anything, it makes it stick out more. There's also additional multi-z considerations to be made: transfer points for atmos/power/disposals, places to fit stairs, making the lower structure airtight (i.e. making sure it's not open to space via the ceiling, which requires hull on the upper level above it in any holes to space (and could start to make it look real bad depending on location)), the reduction to security that it creates on the upper level (welding in from the bottom, for example). It's not undoable but it's quite a large-scale change to make to an existing map, and again, if it's the only thing on that entire level, it's going to stick out like a sore thumb. I'd agree the best way to go about something like this would be holodorms, but frankly I think it's just a lot of effort for a 3x2 room that you'll use for a grand total of 1 or 2 minutes per round, if even that.

Please don't add my shitty idea it was a joke

The idea was too good it's like honey

You could do this with a second server that people can connect too in theory as well.

That way the items wouldn't transfer over into normal rounds

maybe add a currency that people can spend to equip out their room.

very doable that way, harder in the standard servers on another z level.