[Coding/PR] Player Council.

A place to record your ideas for the game.
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Asternoxx
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:27 pm
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[Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Asternoxx » #637949

The idea in general is to create a council of experienced/veteran players that are interested in the future of tg for the purpose of discussing new ideas/PRs that are to be implemented in to the game directly with those who are gonna be responsible for the PR, in order to exchange information between two parties and have a smoother transition towards a new feature, and a clearer vision that aligns the interests of the playerbase and coders more accurately.
The process: Several players will be selected based on they re knowledge in specific areas of the game. Afterwards for instance there is a massive PR or for time efficiency sake, there are several massive PRs that are about to be implemented. Before the implementation of the PRs , the selected players will represent the interests of the playerbase, will gather feedback on a specific time frame from other players and input they re own feedback based on the tremendeous experience they have. (specific time frame can be a poll or can be a topic on dm that will be open for a few days) After the feedback has been gathered by the select few players, a meeting will be held between the coders , who will be implementing this PR and the players who will represent the playerbase.
A discussion will be held, the key points wil lbe:
- The mechanics behind the PR/ feature that is to be implemented.
- The possible theortical impact it will have on the gameplay.
- Feedback/concerns/ideas from the players, that will be shared by the player council.
- General information exchange between coders and the player council, exchanging ideas for the sake of quality improvement and a clear vision.
Why even bring this idea up: There are several factors to consider:
- First of all , yes there is a coder feedback right below the ideas tab, however I see the forums are not being used as frequently as discord for instance. Discord also allows to exchange information as fast as possible ,however it can be anything aside from discord, as long as it is real time discussion that has a dedicatied timeframe for both parties in order to pour they re energy and concetration in to the discussion phase.
- This will also prevent the coders from having to hear unga bunga comments from the more colorful section of the playerbase, as they will be discussing it with a handful of selected players who have a vast experience on they re back and are interested in improving the game , additionally transmiting the messages of the players who left a meaningful feedback in regards a specific PR that is being discussed right now.
- This will save some resources and time on unintentional errors/hiccups/unforseen difficulties that may pop up later. (Damage control in a way) As it will be a more of a united effort between the playerbase and coders, filling the gaps in theory phase of the cycle. (Think off it as a IT infrastrucutre cycle, where the project before being implemented is being discussed with the clients , in this case players, before being released in to the development and testing phase)

Discussion is quite vital in this case, so constructive critisism/feedback is always a welcome thing here.
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bastardblaster
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by bastardblaster » #637965

these people are called maintainers
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Asternoxx
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:27 pm
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Asternoxx » #637967

ardentarclight wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:53 pm these people are called maintainers
They are doing the functions that are described above indeed, aka senior coders . The point here is that a lot of untapped potential input is still left in the wilderness of the playerbase. Inviting some extra pair of heads who will actively collect player feedback and relay it back for future PR via discussion , additionaly provide they re own input based on the experience they had. (Considering maintainers and coders have a quite busy schedule to test every little detail themselves, help from the outside could assist a bit in regards to that issue)
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Sylphet
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Sylphet » #637978

Code and administration are separate. Nothing that we can decide in this thread can ever impact them. Even if we implemented this, all it would be is unnecessary bureaucracy to form a body with zero influence over the coders. The council could unanimously decide on something like we should return cloning and it would make no difference. They would be ignored.

The value of the council aside - define veteran players, that could mean anything. Who chooses who is placed on the council ? What areas of the game do veterans need to be experienced in to be able to join the council ? And if we already have a group of veteran players willing to sacrifice our time for the future of TG who are supposed to represent the community as a whole - the entire admin team - what point is there to making a second group of people with even less power ? If admins are not this group, then what mechanisms exist to prevent the player council from becoming just as out of touch ?
Tell me how much you think that I should be thrown out of the nearest airlock !
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 37&t=27175
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Timberpoes
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Timberpoes » #637979

Anyone can do this. You can do it right now. Simply go on https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation and provide feedback on any PR.

You can also go to the coding channel on the Discord and discuss exactly the same things.

Or use the coding subforum here.

You already are the council. A council of one. With all the same powers and privileges they they would have.

However, you are also broadly describing the functions the maintainer team already exercises.

https://xkcd.com/927/
/tg/station Codebase Maintainer
/tg/station Game Master/Discord Jannie: Feed me back in my thread.
/tg/station Admin Trainer: Service guarantees citizenship. Would you like to know more?
Feb 2022-Sep 2022 Host Vote Headmin
Mar 2023-Sep 2023 Admin Vote Headmin
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FantasticFwoosh
Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 11:25 pm
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #637984

Timberpoes wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:29 pm Anyone can do this. You can do it right now. Simply go on https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation and provide feedback on any PR. <- gets repoblocked and content-discussion turned off anyway for being "too heated"

You can also go to the coding channel on the Discord and discuss exactly the same things. <- Get muted or kicked from server discord

Or use the coding subforum here. <- Not relied upon in seriousness, will get onto post approval and WYCI'd

You already are the council. A council of one. With all the same powers and privileges they they would have.
~snip~
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Reality check.

Spoiler:
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Asternoxx
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2022 12:27 pm
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Asternoxx » #637986

Sylphet wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:28 pm Code and administration are separate. Nothing that we can decide in this thread can ever impact them. Even if we implemented this, all it would be is unnecessary bureaucracy to form a body with zero influence over the coders. The council could unanimously decide on something like we should return cloning and it would make no difference. They would be ignored.

The value of the council aside - define veteran players, that could mean anything. Who chooses who is placed on the council ? What areas of the game do veterans need to be experienced in to be able to join the council ? And if we already have a group of veteran players willing to sacrifice our time for the future of TG who are supposed to represent the community as a whole - the entire admin team - what point is there to making a second group of people with even less power ? If admins are not this group, then what mechanisms exist to prevent the player council from becoming just as out of touch ?
Player council is essentially a term of community liasons which are player ambassadors that will in essence be collecting general throughts/ideas/wishes from the playerbase in regards to a major PR change, then relaying they re own thoughts and noteworthy ideas in a constructive discussion with the coders before having the PR going live.
Veterans are players who have huge amounts of knowledge/experience/playtime , for instance atmos knowledge by having few hundreds of hours behind they re belt , and have some degree of trust within the community. The point of the liasons is not to make demands, it is to provide feedback to upcoming changes , by providing ideas/concerns from the playerbase and themselves in hopes of a consensus that can be reached . A third party so to say to complement the coders which has no real power, just a voice of gamers to be heard and to be taken in to consideration in a more centralized manner (despite having coders feedback, github and other sources ) A more direct way to collect data so to speak, less chaotic and more concetrated. As majority are using discord sadly and not so many are using github and the forums even despite having a coders discord. A lot of unprocessed data is being lost especially among the fresh blood.
Edit: In regards the groups mechanism, a community manager can be placed to oversee the processes of this little group. Community manager part of the admins of course to maintain control. (Now theres something interesting Does TG even have a community manager officially?)
Asternoxx
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Asternoxx » #637992

Timberpoes wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:29 pm Anyone can do this. You can do it right now. Simply go on https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation and provide feedback on any PR.

You can also go to the coding channel on the Discord and discuss exactly the same things.

Or use the coding subforum here.

You already are the council. A council of one. With all the same powers and privileges they they would have.

However, you are also broadly describing the functions the maintainer team already exercises.

https://xkcd.com/927/
The point of this post is to create player ambassadors .This will help a way to acquire a more centralized way of collecting data for the upcoming PRs, instead of having people come to the links , the ambassadors will come to the player base instead (Aka for instance a chatroom at discord to provide some ideas) This is less time taxing and energy consuming for the coders since theres a specific time table when all of those ideas are brought neatly by the ambassadors in a specific time table. This has some benefits, data input will not be lost in the process of players not knowing where to post it, involving the fresher blood. After all more ideas and suggestions are a healthy way to provide new means towards existing issues or upcoming challenges. More intel in the post above.
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Itseasytosee2me
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Itseasytosee2me » #638001

Asternoxx wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:06 pm
Sylphet wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:28 pm Code and administration are separate. Nothing that we can decide in this thread can ever impact them. Even if we implemented this, all it would be is unnecessary bureaucracy to form a body with zero influence over the coders. The council could unanimously decide on something like we should return cloning and it would make no difference. They would be ignored.

The value of the council aside - define veteran players, that could mean anything. Who chooses who is placed on the council ? What areas of the game do veterans need to be experienced in to be able to join the council ? And if we already have a group of veteran players willing to sacrifice our time for the future of TG who are supposed to represent the community as a whole - the entire admin team - what point is there to making a second group of people with even less power ? If admins are not this group, then what mechanisms exist to prevent the player council from becoming just as out of touch ?
Player council is essentially a term of community liasons which are player ambassadors that will in essence be collecting general throughts/ideas/wishes from the playerbase in regards to a major PR change, then relaying they re own thoughts and noteworthy ideas in a constructive discussion with the coders before having the PR going live.
Veterans are players who have huge amounts of knowledge/experience/playtime , for instance atmos knowledge by having few hundreds of hours behind they re belt , and have some degree of trust within the community. The point of the liasons is not to make demands, it is to provide feedback to upcoming changes , by providing ideas/concerns from the playerbase and themselves in hopes of a consensus that can be reached . A third party so to say to complement the coders which has no real power, just a voice of gamers to be heard and to be taken in to consideration in a more centralized manner (despite having coders feedback, github and other sources ) A more direct way to collect data so to speak, less chaotic and more concetrated. As majority are using discord sadly and not so many are using github and the forums even despite having a coders discord. A lot of unprocessed data is being lost especially among the fresh blood.
Edit: In regards the groups mechanism, a community manager can be placed to oversee the processes of this little group. Community manager part of the admins of course to maintain control. (Now theres something interesting Does TG even have a community manager officially?)
Who would run this whole operation, you?
Go ahead, get a group and try to unionize. The maintainer and administrative team couldn't really help you if they wanted to.
- Sincerely itseasytosee
See you later
Asternoxx
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Asternoxx » #638166


Who would run this whole operation, you?
Go ahead, get a group and try to unionize. The maintainer and administrative team couldn't really help you if they wanted to.
Please note there is a critical criteria in the quoted mesage regarding the eligbility of the position in question
Veterans are players who have huge amounts of knowledge/experience/playtime and have some degree of trust within the community
As it stands i am still a fresh player, that is not known by the community at all to even speak about trust. However you make an interesting point that the group of specialists/abassadors could exist unofficially.
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TheFinalPotato
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by TheFinalPotato » #638186

Coders aren't this inherently separate group of people from players. I maintain atmos, trust me, I don't need more opinions from experienced players, I've got like 6 who are actively developing it, while also being experienced.

That's like, the one strong suit of this development style. Our coders and developers are just, our community. There's no point in a player outreach program because players already outreach quite a lot.
Speaking personally, I know how players feel about things pretty well most of the time. I just disagree with them.
What you're suggesting wouldn't change that, it would just making the changes I want harder, because my coders would be under further pressure from this organization, more then they already are from the general playerbase.

No.
My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperials. Can you say the same?
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Pandarsenic
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Pandarsenic » #638188

GOD DAMN IT WHY DID IT DOUBLE POST
Last edited by Pandarsenic on Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
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Pandarsenic
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Pandarsenic » #638189

TheFinalPotato wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:00 pm Coders aren't this inherently separate group of people from players. I maintain atmos, trust me, I don't need more opinions from experienced players, I've got like 6 who are actively developing it, while also being experienced.
If anything you need less HEYOOOOOOOOOOOOO

I'm here all week
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
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TheFinalPotato
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by TheFinalPotato » #638196

If you didn't doublepost I'd call you based
My ancestors are smiling at me, Imperials. Can you say the same?
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BeeSting12
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by BeeSting12 » #638197

While I do agree that we need more accountability over the github, I personally think we could do with more accountability over the whole server as well. I found this draft of a constitution on the forums from a long time ago, perhaps we could model the player council idea after that.
Spoiler:
Preamble
Essentially, this removes all the room for ANYONE to be shitheads/corrupt bastards withen the politcal/adminstration side of tg. By basically installing some good ol' fasion fucking democracy.

ADMIN RESHUFFLEING [S.1A]
Elections [S.1B]*
All admins/moderators are removed from the txt
All Coders/Spriters/Mappers titles are compressed down to "Developer"
A election for 1 Head Developer is ran.
A election for 1 Head Admin is ran.
A election for 20 in-game adminstrators is ran.
A election for 15 in-game moderators is ran.
A election for 10 developers is ran.
A election for 25 fourm admins is ran.
A election for 20 fourm moderators is ran.
A election for 15 admin trainers is ran.*

*Admin Trainers are selected from the current pool of retired/veteran admins. If the quota of 15 is not met, they are selected from the pool of current adminsistrators.

*No rank may run for more than 2 consecutive terms. However many terms you served, is the length that you cannot serve. (IE: I serve 2 3 month terms, i must wait 6 months [2 terms] to run for elections again])

*Hosts are cycled every 9 months, if there is no one willing to be the host, the host will remain at his rank. If the host is stripped of his rank, The head admin becomes host. All head admins must be willing to become the host at any period in time

*Elections will be created on a strawpoll, by the host, each election has 7 days to run, The winner is elected at the end of the 7 days, if its a tie, a revote lasting 2 days is created. The winner of that gets the positon.

ADMIN COMPLAINTS [S.2A]
Once a complaint is made, the affiliated admin is deadmin'd untill the complaint is resolved.
The adminstration team must remain completely unbiasd when dealing with the complaint, attempting to gather as much information as possible from the complainer.
The adminstration team will then make a decision, boiling it down to a 2 option decission. (Generally accepting or denying the appeal, other actions may be taken)
Once the decission is made, it will be sent to the player council. 2/3rds of the council must approve the complaint decission for it to pass.
If the complaint is deemed reasonable, and is a logical complaint, in favor of the complainer. The affiliated admin is deadminned, and may not serve the rest of their term, or the following term after that.
If the complaint is deemed unreasonable, the affected admin is promoted back to their original rank, and verbally compensated. the complainer is sent a message explaining why this is a case, and given several solutions on what could be done to improve the situation.

BAN APPEALS [S.3A]
The banned player creates a appeal.
The adminstrative team determines if it is a valid appeal, gathering as much information in the fourm post as possible (Yes or No determination)
The descsion from the admin team is sent to the council, a 2/3rds vote from the council is needed to confirm the decission.
If the decission is reached, in favor of the banned player, the player is unbanned, and compensated with a cool, non protective hat for one round. And the admin who banned him recieves a period of deadmin ship equal to the time that the player served in a banned status.
If the decission is reached that the player was wrong, by both the council and adminstration team, the players ban time is doubled, if it is a perma ban, the player may only re-appeal 6 months from the last appeal

BAN REQUESTS [S.3-AA]
The requestee creates a request.
The adminstrative team determines the cause, and creates a verdict, gathering as much information as possible. The paperwork sent to the council should include the ban time, ban reason, and modifiers.
The verdict from the admin team is then sent to the council, the council votes if they should deny the appeal, or accept the appeal.
The council must have a 2/3rds vote on the final verdict.
If the vote passes, with 2/3rds of the council agreeing, the requested players are banned for the reason caused.
NOTE: The council may not modify the ban time, but may decline it, and send it back to the admin team with a requested ban time.

THE COUNCIL [S.4A]
In the case that a 2/3rds vote is not reached due to the council members not voting, the ones who did not vote will be removed from the council, and may not serve on the same term. Their slots are then filled by a immidate election for council members.
If the ejected council member spots are not filled withen 3-7 busniess days, the head adminstrator will be contacted to make a decission.
If the head adminstrator is unavalible, the appeal is automatically accepted in favor of the appealee.
Council members do not answer ahelps, and do not have admin powers, they only have a in-game rank title, and access to the asay verb, to be able to communicate in game with the adminstration team.
Corruption/Bribery [S.4B]
If a council member is suspected of corruption/bribery by a player/other council member/admin, they are stripped of the ability to vote, and they're ingame powers and rank.
The adminstrative team will investigate the afilliated council members/players
If it is deemd that the Council member recieved a offer to be bribed, but denied it, the player/admin/council member who sent the bribe will be banned in game for 2 weeks, and barred from politcal positions.
If it is deemd that the Council member recieved a bribe, and accepted it, both will be banned for 1 month, and barred from politcal decissions.
Corruption follows the same proceedures as the admin team, see: Section 5B
Blackmailing [2.4C]
Council members suspected of recieving blackmail, will temporaily be stripped of rank to preserve the tranquility of the political body that is /tg/station.
The adminstrative team will then investigate if the council member has been black mailed.
If the council member has been blackmailed, the player/admin/council member that blackmailed him will be banned from the server for 2 weeks, and barred from joinning politcal positions.
If the council member has not been blackmailed, the council member will regain his rank after what he has been blackmailed with is deemed to no longer be able to be used to blackmail him.

THE ADMINSTRATION TEAM [S.5A]
Corruption [S.5B]
Any sign of corruption determined by the council or players, will be investigated by the council.
If deemed corrupt, affiliated admins will be deadmin'd, and they're spots will remain empty until the end of the term. The affiliated admins may not serve the term after their deadminship.
The adminstration team must remain absolutely professional at all times, breaking this is terms for a period of power removal, varrying in time for the action preformed.
Button pushing / spamming events, (Determined by the council/players) is cause for power removal for a extended period of time (6 months+)
Abuse, is cause for permanent admin removal (Determined by other admins/council/players) This is run through a vote in the council, 2/3rds of the council must deem it abuse. If the verdict is deemed true, affected admin is stripped of his power, and barred from ever serving a term as a admin/council member.

Blackmailing [S.5C]
Follows the same proceedure as the council, see Section 2.4 C

EVENTS [S.5-AA]
All events that are created, must be ran through the council to be approved.
If your event is not approved, and you run it, you will recieve a 6 month event ban. Disallowing you from making events, even if they are approved.
Hosting another unapproved event results in a 2 week server ban, and being stripped of your rank, you may not run for the same position until 2 terms have passed (Including the one you are currently in)


CHAIN OF COMMAND[S.6A]
The Host The Host leads the adminstrative team, trains the adminstrative team, and insures they are kept to a high standard, he also trains newly elected head admins. He has a vote in the adminstrative team votes, he cannot overturn votes from the adminstrative team, he cannot discharge admins/mods without going through a process (This disincludes dire circumstances IE: The admin is destroying/DDOSing the server) He is responsible for managing elections, and insuring this entire system doesn't turn into one big clusterfuck.
TERM LENGTH: 9 MONTHS

The Head Admin The Head Admin is the second in command of the admin team, sharing most of the responsabilitys of the Host, that's why he will be trained by the host. This should generally be a polite, friendly, intelligent, and well-respected player. A player who is also capable of getting the job done
TERM LENGTH: 4 MONTHS

The Head Developer Responsible for keeping track of github updates, and updating the changelog, is also responsible for finding bugs and fixing them. He leads the dev team, and is mainly responsible for keeping them in track. This player should generally be experienced in NTSL, Spriting, and mapping. Also capable of handling exploits, ect ect.

The Council Leader This is one person elected by the council, they are equal to the council, but are generally the most active. They are responsible for communicating with the players and admin team, insuring all the information/vote decissions are communicated between every individual. He is also responsable for keeping and transfering all the appeals and paperwork between the admin team and council. All the rules that apply to the council, also apply to him.
TERM LENGTH: 30 DAYS

The Council A team of 30 well respected, polite, and politcal players. They will be responsible for anything that requires a vote. They are essentially the larger, more direct version for a voice for the players. They are also the final stop for appeals, ban requests, and admin complaints.
TERM LENGTH: 30 DAYS

The Admins A team of 20 polite, professional, and effective people. They are responsible for handling a-helps, handling server threats, hosting events, and answering questions. They are encouraged to be welcome members of the community, constantly playing rounds with the community to build trust.
TERM LENGTH: 3 MONTHS

The Moderators A team of 15, polite, professional, and effective people. Generally insuring the rules are not constantly being broken, assisting adminstrators, and even being one when there is currently not one on the server.
TERM LENGTH: 2 MONTHS

The Developer
Creates Sprites, Maps, And codes. Responsible for bug fixing, exploting patching, and feature additions. Generally should be experienced in their own field.
TERM LENGTH: 2 MONTHS

The Fourm-Admins A team of 25 polite, professional, people, whom of which are experienced in phpBB, and are capable of being semi-active to regulate fourm posts. And also capable of watching over fourm-moderators. And generally capable of handling posts / determining / fourm banning trolls / troll posts
TERM LENGTH: 3 MONTHS

The Fourm-Moderators A team of 20 polite, professional, people, whom of which are semi-experienced in phpBB, and capable of moderating the fourms for atleast 50 hours a week. And generally capable of handling posts / determining / fourm banning trolls / troll posts
TERM LENGTH: 2 MONTHS

The Admin Trainers A team of 15 veteran, experienced, harden admins/moderators, who are willing to teach newly elected moderators/admins. They hold juristicion over Adminstrators, Moderators, Fourm Moderators, And Fourm Admins for 1/3rd of their terms. This learning period is men't to teach new admins how to properly handle things.*
* Previous Admins/Moderators/Fourm-Admins/Fourm-Moderators are excempt from this learning period unless a Head Admin or Host determines that the previously experienced need to be trained again.

[SECTION 21A]
Due to the restriction on the ammount of deveolpers. All current developers will serve this term, the next term, only 10 of them may be elected.
Edward Sloan, THE LAW
Melanie Flowers, Catgirl
Borgasm, Cyborg
Spoiler:
OOC: Hunterh98: to be fair sloan is one of the, if not the, most robust folks on tg

DEAD: Schlomo Gaskin says, "sloan may be a faggot but he gets the job done"

DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "YOU'RE EVERYWHERE WHERE BAD SHIT IS HAPPENING"
DEAD: Rei Ayanami says, "IT'S ALWAYS FUCKING EDWARD SLOAN"
oranges wrote:Bee sting is honestly the nicest admin, I look forward to seeing him as a headmin one day
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Mothblocks
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Mothblocks » #638202

LETS GOOOO BEESTING
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!

Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.

Mothblocks everywhere, >>> Say nice things about me <<<
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NoxVS
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by NoxVS » #638221

Your best bet would be to serve as the guy who collects all the various different player's opinions and present them as your own all at once
The weak should fear the strong
thehogshotgun wrote:How does having jannies like you, who have more brain tumor than brain benefit the server
cacogen
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by cacogen » #638228

The design committee after I make a PR removing firelocks:

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Asternoxx
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Asternoxx » #638514

NoxVS wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:11 am Your best bet would be to serve as the guy who collects all the various different player's opinions and present them as your own all at once
That would be indeed the most optimal option here.




Alright the general idea is understood. Lets leave the player council behind a bit, heres a more neutral suggestion. TG seems to be a growing a community with veterans and a surge of new players that comes in tides. Instead of the player ambassadors , TG could use a community manager. According to the thread intel, coders are already under the pressure from the playersbase , the CM could aleviate that pressure, by representing major PRs in an attractive light/explaining its features/vision , giving the coders more space so to say. At the same time CM would have benefits for the playerbase, lending an ear to understand the general concerns of the playerbase along with they re wishes , then relaying them to the coders. CM is a part of the administration under normal conditions, this seems like a win/win for both sides. Aside from other functions CM could have. (like coordinating events)
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Pandarsenic
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Pandarsenic » #638517

ardentarclight wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 2:53 pm these people are (still) called maintainers
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
I once wrote a guide to fixing telecomms woohoo
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Shadowflame909
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Shadowflame909 » #638518

trust me i've been complaining about nerf and removal prs for the last 3 years

A single court jester is funny but a group of court jesters get old

A large amount of court jesters may not be court jesters at all and you could have a riot on your hands
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Mothblocks
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Mothblocks » #638543

Asternoxx wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:06 pm
NoxVS wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:11 am Your best bet would be to serve as the guy who collects all the various different player's opinions and present them as your own all at once
That would be indeed the most optimal option here.




Alright the general idea is understood. Lets leave the player council behind a bit, heres a more neutral suggestion. TG seems to be a growing a community with veterans and a surge of new players that comes in tides. Instead of the player ambassadors , TG could use a community manager. According to the thread intel, coders are already under the pressure from the playersbase , the CM could aleviate that pressure, by representing major PRs in an attractive light/explaining its features/vision , giving the coders more space so to say. At the same time CM would have benefits for the playerbase, lending an ear to understand the general concerns of the playerbase along with they re wishes , then relaying them to the coders. CM is a part of the administration under normal conditions, this seems like a win/win for both sides. Aside from other functions CM could have. (like coordinating events)
you are now describing the head coders, and maintainers like me who dont mind stepping up to plate
Shaps-cloud wrote: Mon Dec 07, 2020 7:59 am May eventually become one of the illusive maintainer-headmins if they choose to pursue that path, having a coder in the senior admin leadership has usually been positive for both sides in the past.
Head Coder of /tg/station, hi!

Head Admin of /tg/station Feb 2022.

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Arcanemusic
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Arcanemusic » #638567

FantasticFwoosh wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:04 pm
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:29 pm ~snip~
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Reality check.
That was a satirical comment, so you know. You... also missed the context of the comment completely.
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It was about the spelling of words and grammar in the codebase. Are you seriously going to use this as your claim that the codebase is a ironclad oligarchy suppressing it's players?
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FantasticFwoosh
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by FantasticFwoosh » #638580

Arcanemusic wrote: Sat Apr 23, 2022 5:58 pm
FantasticFwoosh wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 5:04 pm
Timberpoes wrote: Mon Apr 18, 2022 4:29 pm ~snip~
~snip~
It was about the spelling of words and grammar in the codebase. Are you seriously going to use this as your claim that the codebase is a ironclad oligarchy suppressing it's players?
My reply was satirically framed to the topic, that's all. Image inset, maintainers commenting on things already working as a panel/council whatever (at least one of them), thanks for the context as im sure it'll help the OP.
Off Topic
Its not my thread or intended claim to make fun of me for, go touch astroturf :D :honk:

Spoiler:
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Re: [Coding/PR] Player Council.

Post by Imitates-The-Lizards » #638697

oranges wrote:
I'm telling you how it's been, how it will always be and you should be grateful honestly, because everyone else here is too much of a sociopath to tell you the truth

The staff, especially the admins, decide exactly what the server will do, the only way players have input in that realistically is to become admins and then influence the internal decision making.

I think everyone who participates in /tg/station should understand this fact pretty clearly, because the misconceptions only hurt feelings when things don't go the way people want.

like: do you really think anyone from the playerbase had any real input on the rule 11 change? Firstly, it only happened because mso got annoyed at some behaviour, and secondly, if it had been put to the community I expect it would have lost any poll. What about that kind of thing makes you think in any way you had the ability to influence the server?

I think if we're going to have any kind of real discussion we should be honest about exactly what it looks like.
Just posting this here from this thread - viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31344&start=50

Seeing as how it's highly relevant here.

tldr, join the admin or coding team or get ignored. And, y'know, oranges is right. Anyone who doesn't tell you that straight up is just a sociopath who is manipulating you.
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