/tg/Station 13

That's it. That's the whole idea.


Still fits in security belts and sec clothing external storage.

no fuck off

stun batons should be required to be wielded in two hands like a fire axe to stun

antagonists need more counterplay towards stunbatons in general but making them bulky is not the way to go

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:33 am

It shouldnt be very difficult for an average skilled player to use disablers/bolas/pepperspray etc in conjunction with their baton. If batons just required an extra hit or didnt have knockdown or something then it shouldnt be an issue whatsoever, god forbid you have to actually use the tools available to you instead of just one weapon

Relevant:

oranges wrote: ↑Mon Dec 19, 2022 4:41 am we don't design the game assuming that people can't pick up systems and learn them with some effort

Stun batons should be made obsolete by making 1-hit critting the norm for most non-improvised weapons.

toemas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:15 am antagonists need more counterplay towards stunbatons in general but making them bulky is not the way to go

making them bulky and only fit in secbelts/sec clothing isn't a nerf to security or a counterplay that benefits antagonists, it's a nerf to people stealing them from sec

Screemonster wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:46 am making them bulky and only fit in secbelts/sec clothing isn't a nerf to security or a counterplay that benefits antagonists, it's a nerf to people stealing them from sec

yes, thats why its bad

toemas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:43 am
It shouldnt be very difficult for an average skilled player to use disablers/bolas/pepperspray etc in conjunction with their baton. If batons just required an extra hit or didnt have knockdown or something then it shouldnt be an issue whatsoever, god forbid you have to actually use the tools available to you instead of just one weapon

I`m all for a stun baton nerf but you vastly overestimate the skill level of the average player.


IMO stun batons dont need a direct nerf.

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/46323

This pr nerfed stamina regeneration for doing its job and its not necessarily documented anywhere in game that you take an extra chunk of stamina damage when you get stamcritted.

I think reverting this would be the nerf that stun batons/stam crit needs, stamina regeneration sources will be useful again at shortening the time youre in stamcrit while not making stun batons useless against you since you`ll have the stam slowdown for quite awhile and be disabled for several seconds after being hit, leaving ample time for players that were trying to baton you to process what happened, and even continue stamcritting you while calling for backup or just critting you, or simply aggro grab cuffing.

3000h players guess at the skill of an average player

If batons just required an extra hit or didnt have knockdown or something then it shouldnt be an issue whatsoever

there is no issue and both of these are things i have blocked in the past for being terrible ham fisted ideas

I'll go even further than Mothblocks. Buff stun batons - revert the insuls nerf.

toemas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:54 am

Screemonster wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:46 am making them bulky and only fit in secbelts/sec clothing isn't a nerf to security or a counterplay that benefits antagonists, it's a nerf to people stealing them from sec

yes, thats why its bad

yeah, I wasn't disagreeing
antags having a counterplay against sec batoning them is good but this suggestion is just "hey we should nerf batons by making them unusable by anyone other than sec"

Screemonster wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:30 pm

toemas wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:54 am

Screemonster wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:46 am making them bulky and only fit in secbelts/sec clothing isn't a nerf to security or a counterplay that benefits antagonists, it's a nerf to people stealing them from sec

yes, thats why its bad

yeah, I wasn't disagreeing
antags having a counterplay against sec batoning them is good but this suggestion is just "hey we should nerf batons by making them unusable by anyone other than sec"

Ephedrine. Pump up. Syndicate Stimpacks. Freedom implants to just break out after they cuff you. Ranged weaponry in general. Stealing your own stun baton. Stealing the reactive teleport armor. Not getting on sec's radar in the first place by being stealthy.

I think stun batons already have a lot of counterplay.

Imitates-The-Lizards wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 1:49 pm
Ephedrine. Pump up. Syndicate Stimpacks. Freedom implants to just break out after they cuff you. Ranged weaponry in general. Stealing your own stun baton. Stealing the reactive teleport armor. Not getting on sec's radar in the first place by being stealthy.

I think stun batons already have a lot of counterplay.

There are ALOT more counters to stun batons but like I said most forms of stamina regeneration like ephedrine and pumpup dont mean anything impactful, ive even seen changelings get noob baited into taking adrenaline + chitinous mass and ask how they got stamcritted in deadchat and I had to teach them that the only counterplay they have to stun batons is spam transform into monkey and back.

I've not done chemistry in over a year but I remember Aranesp combined with a few other stimulants (Ephedrine/Meth/Pump-up) making you essentially stun immune while being much more manageable than bathsalts.

Mice World wrote: ↑Fri Jan 27, 2023 4:50 pm I've not done chemistry in over a year but I remember Aranesp combined with a few other stimulants (Ephedrine/Meth/Pump-up) making you essentially stun immune while being much more manageable than bathsalts.

You have to stack atleast around 30-40 ish stamina regen to actually reach a point where youre resistant/immune to stamcrit due to the time between stamina regeneration ticks (and i think time dilation also might screw you ogre). nerve splicing surgery ontop of that ya sure youll be good against the majority of players that dont know the shove cuff grab. (50% stun resistance from nerve splicing doesnt actually help against this you need like 75+%)

You can also do the simple probital + modafinil combo which is simple but comes with its own downsides of making it easier for you to run away from unless you make the pill more and more complex with other meds.

Its why I think if stun batons / stamina is ever going to be nerfed it should only be the extra stamina on stamcrit being reverted, its the most unhealthy part of the stamcombat system because its a magic stam hit you take that you can only learn how to overcome with experience/its not easy to spreadsheet warrior/calculate to overcome it and its not something most players even KNOW ABOUT so it becomes something only a minority of players will know about and even less will know how to overcome.

Bulky batons would only be an antag "nerf" to the extent that every antag who can use stunbatons makes getting one a top priority.

It would be a buff to antag gear in that antags would now have an actual reason to use it, instead of getting for free something better than nearly all of it three minutes into the round by doorcrushing beepsky.

if your idea of improving the game is restraining people into the bespoke uplink more then you have a fat chance of getting your ideas past me

While we're on the topic of wacky stun baton balance ideas, what if having stimulants (from stimpacks) canceled out a baton hit of any kind BUT made you vomit up all the stimulants in you onto the ground. Maybe the vomit is neon blue. No idea if it would be balanced BUT it would be funny to watch everyone swarm this guy's vomit for gamer vomit drugs. Probably would make stimpacks a must buy though.

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 1:06 am Bulky batons would only be an antag "nerf" to the extent that every antag who can use stunbatons makes getting one a top priority.

It would be a buff to antag gear in that antags would now have an actual reason to use it, instead of getting for free something better than nearly all of it three minutes into the round by doorcrushing beepsky.

how recently before making this thread did you get cucked by someone having a stunbaton who doesn't get sec clothing as part of their gear

Mothblocks wrote: ↑Sat Jan 28, 2023 5:18 am if your idea of improving the game is restraining people into the bespoke uplink more then you have a fat chance of getting your ideas past me

If you want traitors to be stronger than a regular crew member you sort of have to give them good exclusive gear, no? I never even consider fighting security as a solo antag because the baton is so incredibly dangerous, even 1 v 1. If something like a Nightmare is outclassed in maint single combat, the balance is obviously very off. Honestly i'd like to see some sort of buff to stunprods (although making them fit in a backpack would just result in buffing crew/nerfing solo antags instead)

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:46 pm That's it. That's the whole idea.


Still fits in security belts and sec clothing external storage.

I'll just put the rest of my belt gear in my backpack and carry five stun batons on the belt, this will do nothing about sec carrying multiple batons either