/tg/Station 13

Head coders have approved a cosmetic loadouts system. Please use this thread for ideas on what kinds of things should be in them.

For reference, we will *definitely* include things like existing heterochromia and pride pin quirks, and scarves. We will *probably* add coats (I want them at least). We will *not* be adding equipment, tools, etc. We want this to be a choice of primarily fashion. Prosthetics and nearsighted, for instance, will not be moved from quirks to loadouts at this time.

This is a very highly requested feature so I would like to know what exactly people are expecting to see in it

Alt gear, like the stuff shoved into the lockers of heads would be great if you could just choose to spawn in with it on instead. RD sweater mains rise up.

Different presets? Like 3 of them? tho having 3 presets per character would be overkill, since supporters got more slots right. Also can't we just put everything from wardrobes that is not from premium section and does not have any protection into the system? What are the requirements to clothing for it to be an option in system?

I don't know if this has been discussed yet at all, but make it so paradox clones get the same features as the original one in order to make it easier to blend in.

Clones being called out or suspected because they have fewer "personal customized" clothing pieces (or might even have the wrong set compared to a static) is not good for the role and this system might help them a bit.

It would be nice to have access to some of the generic non-job public cosmetic items universally too. Mix and match your departmental uniform with some more generic cosmetic item pieces.

And you absolutely know the two entertainer roles would love to be able to pick from any of the costumes in their loadouts as well. We've all seen clowns in owl suits. I'm pretty sure it would enhance their roles if they could spawn in as Owl Fernandez Ace Detective from the get-go.

grey jumpsuit
budget insuls(not the snipped gloves ones those aint stylin)
black shoes
gasmask + firefighter helmet would be equipment
also consider making a random item aquired from the loadout a heirloom, so if i spawn in with slacks and a bandana instead of rummaging through dorms I may have that bandana as my heirloom to diversify targets for that one traitor objective. Right now its like 4 people on a server who are targeted for that objective every round.

I would think anything you can get from a clothes vendor (the civilian one, so the green one) should be fine for this. With that in mind, I would hope to see the option to also customize those items via GAGs as well from the menu.

Pre-applied accessories, like waistcoats (with the right layering) would be nice too.

Costume vendor should be fine too, those are now a public vending machine on all maps, and I don't think anyone has bucked that trend. Though it depends if you want people showing up in chicken suits or not while a scientist. Actually, no, that's hilarious, allow it.

Are small flavour items like pens and books too much?

Is there any intent to limit how many items you can add to the loadout? Or any limitations at all?

Would role-specific categories be possible, such as different starting curator suits or sec uniforms?

Obviously, character specific presets would be nice. I wouldn't want to share a loadout across all characters.

pirate eyepatch, black gloves, black trenchcoat

medical eyepatch, white gloves, white trenchcoat

banana

Having three character presets would be fine because you could choose per job. Just make whatever's available in the public clothing vendor and the departments clothing vendor in the outfit

Berets

I'd love to see the full FALN track suit and beanie in the game.
Also I'd love to see various colors of traditional track suits.
More cyberpunk gear would be nice.
Mesh shirts, torn jeans in both flavors of blue, black and other colors.
We also should be able to spawn in with several flavors of sunglasses including the aesthetic lawyer ones. Call the non-premium ones 'cheap sunglasses' and don't give them any buffs or bonuses to anything other than drip.

We also need a lot more regular hoodies.

MOTHBLOCKS EDIT: MY VERY HUGE IMAGES

some of you seem to think this will replace your entire uniform but I don't think the idea is to have your uniform be replaced - e.g engineer spawning in with grey jumpsuit.

I think probably suit slots/accessory slots are the types of things you should be thinking about.

Oh also it'd be fucking awesome to be able to spawn in with the crew uniforms Chesify had made for Northstar.

oranges wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 3:05 am some of you seem to think this will replace your entire uniform but I don't think the idea is to have your uniform be replaced - e.g engineer spawning in with grey jumpsuit.

I think probably suit slots/accessory slots are the types of things you should be thinking about.

None of that was mentioned in mothblock's post. Do you want us to pick and choose which suits and accessories we want and that's it?

Stethoscopes for doctors would be neat, jackets would be nice for more jobs (but would obviously incur sprite debt and probably shouldn't happen).

More hats would be nice, choosing between sec helmet/beret/cap is pretty obvious.

Being able to NOT have a labcoat on roundstart would be nice too, for MDs/scientists/geneticists

I believe that accessory-spawning code was really wacky? I'm not totally sure, I know Chadley was having issues with getting a seccie to spawn with a special quirk accessory and having it attach properly, but it'd be nice to have accessories spawn in roundstart.

the gags clothing from vendors so you can spawn with it preset roundstart and not have to mess with hex codes every round

Think we could also start with items spraypainted and such?
I know there's quite a few players that use spraypaint to change the colors of their outfit to match.

Oh, and would you consider something like a "do achievements and earn special cosmetic gear for your roundstart outfit preset" thing?

Kolinko wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 4:55 am Think we could also start with items spraypainted and such?
Oh, and would you consider something like a "do achievements and earn special cosmetic gear for your roundstart outfit preset" thing?

Being able to set the color of stuff from within the character menu would be great.
Also achievement-unlocked clothing/accessories sounds rad.

I could care less for the options available as long as each piece of equipment has to come out of the player's starting credit balance as though it was purchased at roundstart.

Cosmetics and clothes are some of the few items people consistently spend credits on, so implementing this is fine as long as it doesn't detract from a system that already struggles to be relevant.

maybe helmet/beret option for sec/engineers
winter coat/armor vest/hazard vest
same for chem/med doc, could replace the lab coat with the winter coat as an option

dunno if this is what the question was asking but seems cool

Fikou wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 4:33 am the gags clothing from vendors so you can spawn with it preset roundstart and not have to mess with hex codes every round

oh hell yeah this would be dope too

i always find myself buying sec vendor slacks and changing the color every round i go sec

Arcanemusic wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:13 am I could care less for the options available as long as each piece of equipment has to come out of the player's starting credit balance as though it was purchased at roundstart.

Cosmetics and clothes are some of the few items people consistently spend credits on, so implementing this is fine as long as it doesn't detract from a system that already struggles to be relevant.

Then wouldn't the better idea be to make something that makes it worthwhile? I don't know anyone who goes "OH BOY, TIME TO SPEND ALL OF MY CREDITS ON THIS OUTFIT" it's either "Buy at the start of the round and forget" or "Buy what I can, come back in 15 minutes when I get my paycheck to get the last thing".

It's not an engaging system and I really don't want to see loadouts get neutered because you can't figure out how to make credits matter, and don't realize that Fashion doesn't anyway.

On Topic: Pretty much what everyone else has said. The stuff that's in the Vendrobe/Autodrobe (preferably with the GAGS codes in our Loadout, if possible, like everyone else has mentioned) roundstart primarily. Something Skyrat did that we could possibly look into is having "restricted" items that only work if you're playing the right job. Like selecting your Sec Beret, you're not going to get it if you're playing Medical.

Arcanemusic wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:13 am I could care less for the options available as long as each piece of equipment has to come out of the player's starting credit balance as though it was purchased at roundstart.

I know you're not in the manuelcord, but I literally said this very thing, because I predicted precisely that you would have these concerns. This isn't a bad way of limit player loadout budget, but it would need to be actually worth using this feature as convenience if so. That should be the primary goal of the feature. Convenience.

Let's assume we are charging players for adding items to the loadout. If I'm still forced to go to the clothes vendor to do the other half of what I want to do, which is customize my character's appearance thoroughly, then that undermines this feature before we've even exited the idea stage. I am forced to go to the vendor regardless, so I may as well retain my full roundstart paycheck and not use the feature so that I have the convenience of flexibility over the inconvenience of less money. (Maybe I find myself needing a wrench, so that paycheck is more important)

The same applies to limiting what options I could possibly get from the loadout, regardless of restrictions such as paycheck budget. If I'm still forced to go to the vendor to finish accessorizing, I'm still inconvenienced and the feature has failed to accomplish its goal (except I guess do exactly what arcane fears, and invalidate the in-game economy because I got some items I may or may not have wanted for 'free').

oh also, since this is slowly becoming an encroaching issue for me, could the loadout also allow for whether or not you spawn with the vet cloak okay thanks.

I don't want the cool kids to know.

Not sure if this is gonna be pulled off well. Hopefully we end up with something that looks close to a cooperate environment and not a dress up contest.

I'd like to see head of staff alternate uniforms in there so they dont have to spend as much time getting dressed I'm their favorite outfits roundstart

Not seen it mentioned yet but the playtime cloak should probably be moved to this system.

NamelessFairy wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 2:17 pm Not seen it mentioned yet but the playtime cloak should probably be moved to this system.

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 1:20 pm oh also, since this is slowly becoming an encroaching issue for me, could the loadout also allow for whether or not you spawn with the vet cloak okay thanks.

I don't want the cool kids to know.

Add all the common products you can get from the ClothesMate and the AutoDrobe vendors. Simple as.

I'm not sure if this is gonna go as far as to let us overwrite our entire roundstart uniform, but it would be nice to be able to swap the sneakers for dress shoes or snow boots. The eyepatch and medical eyepatch would also be a neat option.

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 1:07 pm Let's assume we are charging players for adding items to the loadout. If I'm still forced to go to the clothes vendor to do the other half of what I want to do, which is customize my character's appearance thoroughly, then that undermines this feature before we've even exited the idea stage. [...]

Maybe expensive loadouts could let you start with a negative amount of credits. Although it might be annoying if you still need to buy some job equipment.

Having job specific stuff like the winter coats would be awesome to have instead of for example lab coats at roundstart

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 1:27 pm Not sure if this is gonna be pulled off well. Hopefully we end up with something that looks close to a cooperate environment and not a dress up contest.

I'm not too enthusiastic for this either. I recall that Baystation has a similar system during character creation and it added lots of clutter with very little substance.

I'd love to see a "Defector" outfit which puts you in the Syndicate counterpart outfit of whatever your role is.

Doctors get Interdyne outfits.
Engineers get Donk Co
Cybersun Command

etc

I think pins are fine but large visual cosmetics that are addons (hats when you dont start w one, scarves, etc.) sorta detract from the "corporate nobody" esque world.

When you have to go out of your way to obtain these things then it acts as a deterrent and largely keeps people in their standard gettup, which I think is loosely good (loosely in the sense that I wouldnt go out of my way to btfo people wanting to play fashionista but I dont think that aspect should be inbuilt at the character customizer level).

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:54 am I'd love to see a "Defector" outfit which puts you in the Syndicate counterpart outfit of whatever your role is.

Doctors get Interdyne outfits.
Engineers get Donk Co
Cybersun Command

etc

why would this make any sense at all from a thematic perspective

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:59 pm

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:54 am I'd love to see a "Defector" outfit which puts you in the Syndicate counterpart outfit of whatever your role is.

Doctors get Interdyne outfits.
Engineers get Donk Co
Cybersun Command

etc

why would this make any sense at all from a thematic perspective

Nanotrasen employing from a competitor, capturing nukies, and otherwise making poor staffing choices has never stopped them before. This is the same company that owns people's souls.

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:14 pm

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:59 pm

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:54 am I'd love to see a "Defector" outfit which puts you in the Syndicate counterpart outfit of whatever your role is.

Doctors get Interdyne outfits.
Engineers get Donk Co
Cybersun Command

etc

why would this make any sense at all from a thematic perspective

Nanotrasen employing from a competitor, capturing nukies, and otherwise making poor staffing choices has never stopped them before. This is the same company that owns people's souls.

why would they not be given new uniforms

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:37 pm

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:14 pm

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:59 pm

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:54 am I'd love to see a "Defector" outfit which puts you in the Syndicate counterpart outfit of whatever your role is.

Doctors get Interdyne outfits.
Engineers get Donk Co
Cybersun Command

etc

why would this make any sense at all from a thematic perspective

Nanotrasen employing from a competitor, capturing nukies, and otherwise making poor staffing choices has never stopped them before. This is the same company that owns people's souls.

why would they not be given new uniforms

because the old ones look cool

A hooded coat that I can pick the colours of.

I'll probably not end up using it though because it is jarring seeing my character in not their uniform.

How will paradox clones work with this?

kinnebian wrote: ↑Mon May 29, 2023 12:15 am

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:37 pm

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 10:14 pm

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 9:59 pm

Chadley wrote: ↑Sun May 28, 2023 5:54 am I'd love to see a "Defector" outfit which puts you in the Syndicate counterpart outfit of whatever your role is.

Doctors get Interdyne outfits.
Engineers get Donk Co
Cybersun Command

etc

why would this make any sense at all from a thematic perspective

Nanotrasen employing from a competitor, capturing nukies, and otherwise making poor staffing choices has never stopped them before. This is the same company that owns people's souls.

why would they not be given new uniforms

because the old ones look cool

How does that compensate for the confusion it causes to employees (a.k.a. players) who have been given explicit directions to be on the lookout for Syndicates (a.k.a. the message broadcast over announcements every round) because they are actively attempting to murder crewmembers and destroy vital equipment? It would be like Heisenberg wearing a German uniform while working on the Manhattan Project.

As others said, i think it'd be fine to just put everything you can get in a costumes vendor (with the exception of premium stuff, and maybe fanny packs?) in the loadout

Would it be worthwhile to roll the pride/clown/mime pins into this system? Hell, why not add more pins, have some be completely baffling and let players fight over what they mean.

ETA: I am aware that the quirk versions of pins can offer perks for wearing them and influence medical records, could always make it so people unlock the ability to pick a pin by choosing a quirk (or just don't get any benefit if they wear a pin that's mechanically meaningless to them).

Re: Economy is bad and we shouldn't integrate buying items to a system to save time on buying items:

The Clothesmate costs 35 credits per cosmetic item that you want to buy, barring inflation. I could easily see we ignore inflation and treat roundstart cosmetics as their baseline cost, so with that said players have access to 125, 250, or 500 credits depending on if they're an assistant, standard crew, or head of staff. That means each of those positions would be able to buy 3, 7, and 14 cosmetic items as part of their loadout each shift, if they bottom'd out their starting balance and assuming no changes are made to the cost of cosmetics, which isn't something I'm against.

Getting less cosmetic items for playing an assistant is part of the trade offs of playing assistant. You have less buying power, to encourage you to either actively gain money, or play a real job that has actual responsibilities on the station.

A middle ground to remove the tedium is that potentially starting a round with a loadout doesn't auto-equip your items, but instead spawns a beacon that if you can afford it, would let you select which outfit loadout you want to wear, so you can reasonably have a low, medium, and high cost cosmetic outfit to choose from. Sound reasonable?

I somehow missed this, whoops. I apologise for the kinda spitfiring of ideas.

I do hope that it manages to strike the balance where people can customize to a limited extent but not start the shift not even remotely looking like they are whatever job they started as.

The only things I can voice my thoughts on is:
Cargo Techs having hazard vests and yellow hard hats
Bartenders should have access to basically any of the fancy dresses/suits, since the Barkeep's "uniform" is just a suit.
Assistants should probably have a bit more leeway on what they're allowed to spawn in with. I could see why it should actually be the other way, though.

I would have suggested items like flasks or clipboards but that falls under equipment so I guess not.

If we do use Arcanemusic's idea of having items cost credits that are deducted from your starting balance, then items in a vending machine should really be free for their respective jobs (while still costing credits for people who aren't of that job). For instance, janitors already spend nearly all their starting credits if you want to get all your basics covered as a janitor. If you join right after a round starts, you actually can't purchase all your gear as janitor.

Perhaps there could be a "generalist" pool of items that anyone could use, and a "specialist" pool of items that only select jobs can use. IIRC Paradise has a system like this. For instance, you can't spawn with a hard hat as a loadout item unless you're engineering or atmos IIRC.

How is this going, by the way? Or is it still in the "we're considering it" stage?

I would love some hair accessories like hairpin and ribbon

Last time I tried to add this the PR was unceremoniously closed after barely a day and I'm still a bit salty about it but at least it does mean I had a lot of time to think about this

There are a few design points I aimed to abide by that I think are worth bringing up. For the most part these exist to maintain each job's visibility and personality and avoid a future where everyone starts their shift looking like a bored assistant during a greenshift. This is important both for flavor/roleplay and because being able to generally tell a person's job at a glance is an important part of the game for both antagonists and crew, and a useful tool for all kinds of subterfuge.

1. Items should generally never overwrite a job's starting items. If applicable/appropriate exceptions can be made for items that can be set up to change appearance depending on your selected job(i.e. winter coats, soft caps that change to their department's variant)
2. The selection of items should be kept to only the mundane and things appropriate to be worn with a standard uniform on a space station. Things people would realistically wear to work and not stand out like a sore thumb in a crowd. Bandanas are fine, sombreros and top hats are not.
3. Because of the points above, special care should be used for anything in the exosuit slot as they tend to obscure other items the most and have the highest sprite footprint. Something neutral like the brown leather jacket may work here, but I would advise against anything that doesn't respect departmental colors as per point 1.

Lipstick. Bonus points if you can choose what color. You can't even buy them so any complaints about economy wouldn't be justified.

Arcanemusic wrote: ↑Fri Jun 02, 2023 12:17 am Re: Economy is bad and we shouldn't integrate buying items to a system to save time on buying items:

The Clothesmate costs 35 credits per cosmetic item that you want to buy, barring inflation. I could easily see we ignore inflation and treat roundstart cosmetics as their baseline cost, so with that said players have access to 125, 250, or 500 credits depending on if they're an assistant, standard crew, or head of staff. That means each of those positions would be able to buy 3, 7, and 14 cosmetic items as part of their loadout each shift, if they bottom'd out their starting balance and assuming no changes are made to the cost of cosmetics, which isn't something I'm against.

Funny you mention that. On most roles I play are not assistant level paychecks, but I still can't purchase much more than maybe one or two cosmetics from the clothesmate most shifts after important department stuff (that almost always costs like 10 bucks, almost nothing). The price of the majority of items are around 60-80, mostly on the upper end, on the majority of shifts that I've seen. Obviously I'm not playing a human, so I already expect my pay to be lower, but I'm definitely not seeing items that low, not even close. I think on average nonhumans get like 190 credits roundstart? so I should by that figure still get at least three or so items. Do you happen to have any stats on in-game price inflation?

the big scarves