/tg/Station 13

Just had to go through a Nuke Ops round with a team leader who has never done it before.

Why is this allowed? Why was it ever allowed?

It puts the Ops at a massive disadvantage, and basically autoflukes if the guy is too retarded to even accept that he shouldn't be explaining a game plan when he forgets his/doesn't know about NVGs, belts, the O2 canister or, oh yeah, the pinpointer.

If you're gonna assign someone leader, it had damned well better be someone who can lead and plan.

Otherwise, make us all equal and let the most robust come out on top.

Don't force us to listen to some would-be murderboner who doesn't know where to park the shuttle or how to reload a firearm.

Timelock is pointless if someone never actually plays nuke op until the lock ends and they suddenly get leader, and what are you going to do if the nuke ops need a leader but nobody on the whitelist is online?

He's sayig time lock the leader position.

Of course nuke op itself should have a time gate. The amount of time I've had ops who don't know how to turn on a jetpack...

What ever happened to that PR that was supposed to put a timelock on many antag positions?

It got buried under the "I'M FROM ANOTHER SERVER AND WHAT IF I WANT TO HOP ON HERE AND PLAY NUKE OPS HUH???!" or something.

It has a time lock, I think - Just a really really silly one.

Give nuke op an absurd whitelist time of multiple monthes.

Steelpoint wrote:What ever happened to that PR that was supposed to put a timelock on many antag positions?

You mean my PR? It was merged. It was meant to mitigate the issue but was never intended to prevent it completely.

Timegating is limited in its usefulness. What might work better is have all 5 spawn as regular ops, but one of them would have to volunteer for the leader ID

I'm just gonna lay this out here... how do people git gud if they never play it? You ever stop to think "Shit this goy an't gud, better help him git gud then?"

I never played blob, got it once and even said I am new how do and was shit on hard by every one... I've only played blob once after that and I still wanna learn to git gud but not be shit on by every one

Be a man, stun the leader, and take his ID. It is not hard.

bandit wrote:Be a man, stun the leader, and take his ID. It is not hard.

I don't know how other admins would feel about this but I would give you shit for doing this.

I think whitelisting nuke ops leaders would be a good idea but TG has a no whitelist policy or some shit.

"How can I get good if I never play it" is true for Blob, not for Nuke. Nuke is 90% about just being good at the time - Knowing your way around the station, being good at combat; it simply offers you better equipment to do so.

two prong solution

one: make a seperate antag on/off button (on character role selection screen) for nuke op team leader
two: timelock nukeop team leader much higher than nukeop team member

i've done a few OP raids with a decent success rate however it seems like every time i RNG nukeops i am team lead which i'd prefer not to be. would deselect teamleader if i could

pls make dev thx

Considering it's a mode with a lot of planning/cooperation involved team leader should probably have it's own pref and requirements

And I want Thunder11 to finish their special gun godammit

Or we cannot better code a new button or shit

Is it so hard to lead somoene else lead?

Ezel wrote:Or we cannot better code a new button or shit

?

Ezel wrote:Or we cannot better code a new button or shit

Is it so hard to lead somoene else lead?

yes however this usually leads to mass confusion / a powerstruggle / a delay

Every nuke op round should start with a wrestling match with the 5 ops, all with those wrestle belt things.
The most robust claims the leadership ID.

IMO this is just throwing a patch fix on a problem that was borne of another poorly considered fix to a problem.

The original problem was that one/some nuke ops would go ahead and spend all the uplink telecrystals for themselves, leading to much buttstrartion and adminhelping.
The solution was to impose a structure whereby nuke ops were encouraged to plan their attack based on the expenditure of their telecrystals. (The individiual uplink and donation system) Ultimately, this opened up a range of new attack plans for nuke ops. This was good.
Somewhere along the line, someone decided that a single nuke op was to become an ID-privileged leader and charged with managing telecrystals if the nuke ops agreed. Why?
This leads us to the new problem in that there's a good chance you'll get a leader who doesn't have a clue what they're doing.

The solution lies is in addressing the problem, not in continually throwing hasty fixes atop this lasagne of issues and fixes.

I say: Just revert the ID-privileged nuke-op leader and have them all be equals. The most telling aspect of a nuke op team's performance is their ability to execute a planned attack. Teamwork is often critical to their success where robustness might fail them. There is little difference between the teamwork required to define a plan and the teamwork required to execute it. If that's done through democratic process or a dictatorship, it should be up to the nuke ops to decide.

The Nuke Leader is to stop the fights over who got to manage the TC nukers were having, IIRC

I enjoy having a nuke op leader because in my opinion it reduces the fighting over plans and what to spend telecrystals on (reduces, not eliminates).

Also bandit, if you stunned and stripped me for no reason because I was nuke leader I'd ask admins for permission to kill you. If they didn't respond I'd kill you anyway.

Give team antags separate leadership game preference button. That way you can have shorter timer on regular nuke op and longer for the boss, though the biggest impact would be that people who feel they're ready to play a boss role can choose to do so and people who know they don't know how to boss can choose to not be boss while still being able to join in the team antagging. Granted, this doesn't remove the risk of having an idiot boss but I doubt any amount of code is going to do that.

Big NO to any form of whitelist. Most teams fluke because they don't stick together not because of leader, also I saw many times people giving out their leader card to someone else because they are not confident enough to play as one. Additional button in preferences for OP leader would be the best option in my opinion. Making all the operatives equal with no leader will make some plans never possible to execute.

'Tis summertime.

Scones wrote:'Tis summertime.

This has been an issue for a long time, I should know, I've been here all summer