Rethinking internals?

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invisty
Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 12:02 am
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Rethinking internals?

Post by invisty » #102392

I've been pondering this matter for a week or so, thinking about how internals and their use relate to the gameplay. I believe there's some real potential for improving the game mechanics around internals, hull breaches, EVA travel and gas-masks.

Some considerations:
  • Emergency (box) internals seem to be a "fire and forget" solution, with no downsides beyond their stock lifespan. The only inconvenience is that they use a pocket, encouraging people to just leave them on forever. They're not actually emergency items by any extent
  • Hull breaches seem to cause more damage by vacuum than they do from O2 deprivation. While realism isn't the name of the game, O2 deprivation is incredibly more lethal to the human body than a vacuum. If internals are meant to improve your odds of survival in a vacuum, then the balance of oxyloss to brute pressure damage should better favour internals.
  • The suits in EVA storage are most commonly used during hull breach events as a survival device, and not for actual EVA.
  • Full-size tanks aren't favourable because their increased capacity does not balance out their impractical size.
  • Gas masks aren't favourable for any reason related to their primary function.
  • Emergency internals are used for regular space-borne activities.
So ultimately I think there's some sort of "better implementation" in the relation between hull breaches, emergency internals, and full-size internals. I've got ideas, but I'd like to see what other people think would be a better state of play.
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Cheimon
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by Cheimon » #102435

If you've got interesting ideas, just state them. That way they can be critiqued and improved.

Generally speaking, I don't have a big problem with the current situation. With the possible exception of gas masks, I don't really care that name doesn't equate to function (i.e. that eva suits aren't used for eva, emergency internals aren't just for emergencies). I'm happy with how they function in the game and maybe the best way to resolve the naming conflict is just to rename them, rather than repurpose them. Substitute 'small' for 'emergency' and 'EVA' for 'vacuum' and you've got items with names that fit how they're sued. Sorted. Is it bad that players make good use of the one piece of equipment everyone gets, and that it's a solid piece of kit? I don't think so.

I wouldn't want oxyloss damage to be buffed because that would have big implications on lots of other parts of the game: how long you can survive in crit, how much more effective choking would be, certain chemicals would be buffed, you'd have less time to react if you hadn't set up internals before, all sorts of things like that.

Full-size tanks mostly aren't favourable because there are small tanks with more than enough volume (the yellow ones). If they didn't exist, full size would be more popular. That, and the fact you can put three times as much gas in a small blue tank as you have initially. If it was capped at around 300kpa, it would be much less useful, but that isn't a reason to nerf it. Big tanks are still used occasionally and they do have a role.

If you want to make gas masks useful, just make them scrub out a few basic gases (not just reduce the damage they do, that's pretty close to as useless as before) like plasma or n2o or maybe co2, or perhaps a combination thereof. Or if you just want them to be more prominent, replace the standard internals mask with gas masks. Not that this is necessary, gas masks have a reasonable place on the station as face masks and face masks only.

I guess I don't think your 'problems' are really problems.
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Reimoo
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by Reimoo » #102445

Personally I think it would be more interesting if the emergency tanks were nerfed, but a more visible O2 meter was added onto the HUD. Seeing your O2 tick down 15%...14%...13% is really nerve racking in other games and I think it would add a lot to the atmosphere here.
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DemonFiren
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:15 pm
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by DemonFiren » #102501

We already do have an indicator of how much time is left at the current pressure and output settings in the status tab, don't we...

Adding this as visible timer above/below the Internals button in the HUD should be done if feasible.
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PKPenguin321
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by PKPenguin321 » #102596

all of those situations you presented only come up when i don't have any other air source, therefore i am technically in an emergency
they serve their purpose imo, and what you're calling for makes them not useful ever for anything. i'd rather have what we already have.

minor edit: but i do kind of agree on the gas mask part. they should be adjustable at the very least
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Saegrimr
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2014 4:39 pm
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by Saegrimr » #102598

Keep emergency internals as they are, just have a couple more of them spawn in the emergency O2 lockers that are all over the station and remove the starting internals box unless you're latejoining into a round gone past 10 minutes.
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JackHunt
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:12 pm
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by JackHunt » #102620

I have never heard complaints about the internals. I think they're a surprisingly fundamental part of the round and they do their job well. I agree that perhaps the names are not the most accurate but I also agree that the solution is to rename them, not to fiddle with probably one of the better balanced parts of SS13.

EVA is locked behind command access so it's not surprising that the suits do not get used. Public access suits would mean some reconciling with space content given how it's currently balanced (usually stronger or rarer to compensate for current difficulty in getting into space if you're not engineering or mining). It could be done and in that case could expose users to more content which is a good goal usually.

Make gas masks filter gas and you have a good reason to use them over an internals set. Gas masks for Plasma/N2O/CO2 and internals for Vacuum. To further this differentiation you could nerf internals slightly by them not protecting your eyes. "The plasma stings your eyes" or something to that effect. That's a pretty big balance change so it would have to be discussed given how it nerfs every crew member essentially. Perhaps that fits the theme of "Make SS13 more lethal".
Miauw
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:23 am
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by Miauw » #102637

emergency internals work imo
i never leave them on forever because they do have a sort of limited lifespan. if anything their volume should be reduced and their pressure increased so you cant overfill them like you can now.
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Cheimon
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Re: Rethinking internals?

Post by Cheimon » #102665

JackHunt wrote:Make gas masks filter gas and you have a good reason to use them over an internals set. Gas masks for Plasma/N2O/CO2 and internals for Vacuum. To further this differentiation you could nerf internals slightly by them not protecting your eyes. "The plasma stings your eyes" or something to that effect. That's a pretty big balance change so it would have to be discussed given how it nerfs every crew member essentially. Perhaps that fits the theme of "Make SS13 more lethal".
Maybe, but I don't think blinding people would be fun at all. Perhaps if it simply gave you the white blur effect (same as when shot by lasers and practice lasers), and then your eyes recovered as soon as you left the toxic gas, that would be more fun. It would make thick gas clouds (but not totally dense, ie smoke) harder to see in as a bonus.
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