Map Rotation

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:04 pm #102879

Last thread I saw on this was from 2014 so fuck necroing that.

So, This has been turned down before but no harm trying again.

Map rotation please, even just like one day a week rotate through maps instead of playing box only.

Box every fucking round is boring, no one plays on the other server.

Thanks.

hanshansenhansson · Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:11 pm

Was there not a server with a system to vote for which map is played next? I think there was. That is quite a nice system, I think.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:23 pm #102884

We only have two functioning maps though

And one of those is already 24/7 on another server

If I wanted to play on Meta, I'd play on Basil.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:28 pm #102885

Scones wrote:We only have two functioning maps though

And one of those is already 24/7 on another server

If I wanted to play on Meta, I'd play on Basil.

I know but god damn it never has above 20 people.

Low pop rounds on meta are a joke.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:58 pm #102897

Infact, go poach other maps.

Put Basil on Mini Station 24/7.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:02 pm #102900

Tornadium wrote:
Scones wrote:We only have two functioning maps though

And one of those is already 24/7 on another server

If I wanted to play on Meta, I'd play on Basil.
I know but god damn it never has above 20 people.

Low pop rounds on meta are a joke.

maybe if you played there it wouldnt have as little people

also pls no ministation its awful

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:07 pm #102902

Miauw wrote:
Tornadium wrote:
Scones wrote:We only have two functioning maps though

And one of those is already 24/7 on another server

If I wanted to play on Meta, I'd play on Basil.
I know but god damn it never has above 20 people.

Low pop rounds on meta are a joke.
maybe if you played there it wouldnt have as little people

also pls no ministation its awful

Why would I want to waste my time hanging around on a 20 player server to see if more people join.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:16 pm #102903

The reason its hard to break away from Boxstation, and Metastation, is that they are well worn, tried and tested maps with years of development hammered into them.

Any new maps is going to take a while to set the grooves into.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:17 pm #102904

Boxstation is the 2fort of SS13

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:19 pm #102905

Steelpoint wrote:The reason its hard to break away from Boxstation, and Metastation, is that they are well worn, tried and tested maps with years of development hammered into them.

Any new maps is going to take a while to set the grooves into.

That's cool, I get that. What about at least rotating between meta and box every few rounds?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:21 pm #102906

My guess is that it would require a recompile of the code in between rounds which would involve scripting out-of-game, and cooperation with someone with direct access and who knows how the server works back-end.

It complicates matters considerably.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:22 pm #102907

Ikarrus wrote:My guess is that it would require a recompile of the code in between rounds which would involve scripting out-of-game, cooperating with the host or someone with direct server access.

It complicates matters considerably.

Byond is that unwieldy huh?

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:24 pm #102908

We already do some fancy folder swapping with the server backend to get our server updated without people getting disconnected or even noticing anything has changed.

I think it's certainly doable, just needs the motivation and actual will between MSO and coderbus to work it out.

And whether or not people actually want it.

TrustyGun · Post by **TrustyGun** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:25 pm #102909

I honestly don't get it why Meta is on Basil and Box is on Sybil. Meta is for 70 people, and Box is for 25 people. I know it has something to do that Basil used to be filled every round 2 some years ago, but times have changed.

When I look at Meta, I sigh because it is wasted on a server that averages 15 people. Maybe have a test-week or something, where Sybil is forced to play on Meta for a week or so, then next week Basil will be forced to play on Box, to see how it works.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:26 pm #102910

That's all subjective, though. We've ran experiments and polls before and people simply prefer playing on box station for whatever reason.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:33 pm #102914

Tornadium wrote:
Miauw wrote:
Tornadium wrote:
Scones wrote:We only have two functioning maps though

And one of those is already 24/7 on another server

If I wanted to play on Meta, I'd play on Basil.
I know but god damn it never has above 20 people.

Low pop rounds on meta are a joke.
maybe if you played there it wouldnt have as little people

also pls no ministation its awful
Why would I want to waste my time hanging around on a 20 player server to see if more people join.

20 people is enough for a fun round, you're the reason that there's never any more people.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:46 pm #102916

Miauw wrote:
Tornadium wrote:
Miauw wrote:
Tornadium wrote:
Scones wrote:We only have two functioning maps though

And one of those is already 24/7 on another server

If I wanted to play on Meta, I'd play on Basil.
I know but god damn it never has above 20 people.

Low pop rounds on meta are a joke.
maybe if you played there it wouldnt have as little people

also pls no ministation its awful
Why would I want to waste my time hanging around on a 20 player server to see if more people join.
20 people is enough for a fun round, you're the reason that there's never any more people.

Not on meta, simply too big.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:06 pm #102921

BRING BACK ASSTATION 2555

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/169 ... tation.png

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:08 pm #102922

Shit i forgot about that map, I'd love to play that again.

Remie Richards · Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:09 pm

Assstation sucks.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:11 pm #102925

Remie Richards wrote:Assstation sucks.

2BIG FOR BASIL, BIGGER THAN BOXSTATION.
NOT BOX ENOUGH FOR BOXFAGS ON SYBIL.

WIN/WIN

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:14 pm #102926

Remie Richards wrote:Assstation sucks.

It is one of the most fun maps I've ever played no lie.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:31 pm #102929

TrustyGun wrote:I honestly don't get it why Meta is on Basil and Box is on Sybil. Meta is for 70 people, and Box is for 25 people.

Every map that doesn't customize job slots is designed to comfortably host at least 53 players, because that's the number of job slots available by default before assistants. I could argue that box can house far more than than without much trouble, and I've never seen anyone on the server complaining about "how crowded it was" even when it would push 90 players. People like box because it's what they know and because it fosters running into people, which fosters conflict and thus entertainment.

If meta could maintain higher numbers people who enjoy high pop would be more apt to give it a try, it's one those problems that has to be solved once to be solved forever, barring massive player losses.

Trust me though that trying to trick people into playing on meta won't work. This is a discussion that has happened every so often for years now and the result is always the same, people follow box. Gotta find some other way to get people excited.

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 5:56 pm #102934

Meta would be suffering with high pop

Also don't mention mini it's an unmaintained abomination

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 6:50 pm #102948

Maintaining maps is time consuming. We have no maps other than box, because only box is maintained.

We need more maps before we can have a rotation.

For anybody making maps, make them bigger than box, thanks.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:07 pm #102952

solution: set sybil to cap at 60 players
more people will play on basil and both servers are populated!!!

JackHunt · Post by **JackHunt** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:14 pm #102955

Making maps is absolutely stupidly time consuming and we probably won't see more any time soon, certainly not enough to get a rotation going. On tg or bay or whatever there's probably a new mapping attempt every few months for the past two years. Essentially nothing makes it out of the layout stage ever. This is because wiring a map, hooking up atmos, var editing the shit out of everything, testing, configuring, bug catching, balance changing, taking requests during development, play testing and then repeating half those steps again and again is both incredibly dull and incredibly tedious. And you do all that and there is no guarantee that the player base likes it. Mapping is a curse. Box has been been dragged through the years kicking and screaming just so someone doesn't have to do an entire map from scratch again. Even if you have to rip out an entire department's guts, it's still sooo much easier to edit box than to try a new map.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:23 pm

Scott wrote:Maintaining maps is time consuming. We have no maps other than box, because only box is maintained.

We need more maps before we can have a rotation.

For anybody making maps, make them bigger than box, thanks.

1) box
2) meta
3) mini (do not use proving-you-wrong purposes only)
4) Asteroid (needs merge)
5) Eff3 (needs updating, allura you big faggoty baby we liked it more than meta)

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:12 pm #102981

Asteroid update was merged

Ministation is FUCKING HORRIBLE for many reasons

I'll ask allura if they would mind me updating eff3

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:33 pm #102991

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Scott wrote:Maintaining maps is time consuming. We have no maps other than box, because only box is maintained.

We need more maps before we can have a rotation.

For anybody making maps, make them bigger than box, thanks.
1) box
2) meta
3) mini (do not use proving-you-wrong purposes only)
4) Asteroid (needs merge)
5) Eff3 (needs updating, allura you big faggoty baby we liked it more than meta)

Only box is maintained.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:39 am #103085

Ikarrus wrote:My guess is that it would require a recompile of the code in between rounds which would involve scripting out-of-game, and cooperation with someone with direct access and who knows how the server works back-end.

It complicates matters considerably.

Nope, it's totally possible to set up a map vote thing that swaps maps that doesn't require a recompile.

/vg/station has a map voter thing and it's just as fast as a normal reboot when it switches maps.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:49 am #103088

Scott wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Scott wrote:Maintaining maps is time consuming. We have no maps other than box, because only box is maintained.

We need more maps before we can have a rotation.

For anybody making maps, make them bigger than box, thanks.
1) box
2) meta
3) mini (do not use proving-you-wrong purposes only)
4) Asteroid (needs merge)
5) Eff3 (needs updating, allura you big faggoty baby we liked it more than meta)
Only box is maintained.

u wot? Metacide works tirelessly on his masterpiece map

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:04 am #103092

Why do people say that meta is huge? It's almost the same size as box, it just has a different layout.

And most people prefer box because it's familiar, and they're all big babies that don't want to be on a map where they dont know exactly where every single thing is.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:24 am #103094

Meta appears to be larger simply because everything seems more crammed in to fit as much mapping content into the same size space as boxstation as possible. On average it takes around 20 to 30 hours of time to create a map, and that's no guarantee it will be a good map. This also excludes the months and years of refinement that a map will receive.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:39 am #103096

Box feels/is smaller because 75% of the playerbase will spend 90% of their time on the station in just the east wing. You could cut off the entire arrivals arm and no one would notice until someone realized all the new joins were inexplicably not showing up to work. This is both a good and a bad thing, but it is a thing a lot of people seem to enjoy.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:40 am #103097

Well the only solution there would be to move medical to the west side of the station, probably around north of the cargo bay.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:10 am #103099

I'm not so sure it's a problem needing a solution. Having areas of the station that are less populated adds variety and provides more opportunity to do things.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:25 am #103110

Yes, having dead zones where shady things can go down is important, that was always my issue with asteroid station.

That said it's always bugged me at the shear intensity with which arrivals wing on box is deserted.

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:31 am #103112

One of the reasons that there is a lack of (maintened) maps is the fact that it's a lot of work to create one and you only get to see it played for a few days. I am sure that a lot more people would consider contributing maps if there was a system in place to switch between maps.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:58 am #103114

True, there's no incentive to create a map aside from the challenge of doing it. Maps take a very long time to make and if the best you can hope for is for it to be used once or twice, then what's the point?

EmGee · Post by **EmGee** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:12 am #103115

On my opinion we need a new standard map, a brand-new map project to mappers to collectively work on, whether it's assstation, or something new.
Modular has a lot of promise, on my opinion.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:26 am #103119

Could we even have it one day a week on rotation (if it's as easy as that reboot script makes it seem to be), and then the rest of the time be on box?

I just need something to alleviate the boredom of playing on the same map layout since like 2012.

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:41 am

IIRC, the update-between-rounds mechanic works by compiling the updated version in a seperate folder, then downing the server and immediately rebooting from the updated folder, right?

If so, why can this not be used to maprotate?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:44 am #103125

Because we would be swapping from Box to Meta when we already have one server dedicated to each of those two maps.

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:45 am

Steelpoint wrote:Because we would be swapping from Box to Meta when we already have one server dedicated to each of those two maps.

Rotating from box to meta to ass to (If someone fixes alluras temper tantrum) eff3, to whatever abortion of a station the mapping section gets running (discstation looks promising, but early stages)

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:16 am #103136

map rotation is completely 100% possible if MSO is willing to make the code.
recompiling on the fly is eh because compilation takes a while but you could just compile the code once for every map every time the server updates.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:34 am #103138

Steelpoint wrote:Because we would be swapping from Box to Meta when we already have one server dedicated to each of those two maps.

If there was a rotation I'd actually learn how to do Byond mapping and give it a try.

Give someone a reason to make more maps.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:36 pm #103222

As a note disc station looks pretty cool.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:33 pm #103262

I would definitely try mapping again if there was a rotation.

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:19 pm #103284

I want modular station to be in a usable state for this.