/tg/Station 13

So, stupid idea. How about using remi's pixel drawing system with a hologram gun?

You draw lines on tiles and walls, and different symbols or shapes represent different pipes.
Like, an arrow pointing right would be a normal pump to the right, a double arrow would be a volume pump, a plain line would be a normal pipe, a plain double line would be an insulated pipe, an L shape would be a bent pipe, etc.

Then you have a small bot you load with metal sheets, drag it over and turn it on. It'd go to each drawing and try to interpret the shape. if it can't, then it skips it and moves on, but if it can it'll try to place a pipe there and secure it, and use metal to print the pipe out.

As a bonus, atmos techs could use it to draw holographic cocks all over maintenance.

Not so sure these things actually should use metal. Pipes are free.

'sfine if they don't.

Would prefer if it wasn't based on a special robot. The robot is alright but still leaves construction without the robot as bad, so why not fix the base problem instead of inventing a workaround? Instead should be like

Click far away with pipe in hand -> draw hologram only you can see
Get near hologram -> pipe gets built (if you have the necessary tool(s) in your offhand, pockets, exosuit storage, belt, or backpack)

If the bot idea goes through, just have the bot display a screen of what pipe it's going to build instead of using meaningless, incomprehensible symbols. Allow people to feed it pipes directly instead of just metal sheets.

Also just because it should be said: Pipes should stack, pipes should cost metal, pipes should be makable in an autolathe or straight from metal sheets, and pipes should autojoin. Nothing to do with the proposal here.

>Pipes should stack
Would be nice, very nice, but that sounds incredibly difficult to implement. I know i've tried to run a direct line of plasma to Science once from Atmos and I got about to Xenobio before the shuttle got called. Trying to map out pipe routes in the already limited space you have to work is horrendous.

>pipes should cost metal, pipes should be makable in an autolathe or straight from metal sheets,
Oh dear god no, please. If you insist on this at least make it something like the RCD but cost significantly less. It's not like you can do a hell of a lot with them anyway. Dispsal chutes and bins, sure, make those cost metal as they have a very direct impact on players.

>and pipes should autojoin.
Not 100% on this. They need some kind of construction step other than just plop it down and forget it.

Pipes should never, ever, EVER cost metal.

There was one idea in coderbus yesterday about a sort of lesser RPD that could be found around the station for anyone (assistants) to use, but they'd cost metal to make pipes. As long as real RPDs are kept the way they are then that would work just fine.

Also we're going to completely remove normal pipe dispensers as they currently are.

Why not allow RPDs to define a two points within reasonable distance, then magically lay pipes between them?

I was just trying to find a way of making pipe laying quicker. The Rapid pipe thingadoodle is a start but you still have to fiddle with its broken-ass interface.

Midaychi wrote:I was just trying to find a way of making pipe laying quicker. The Rapid pipe thingadoodle is a start but you still have to fiddle with its broken-ass interface.

There is literally nothing wrong with the RPD and if you have a problem with it I will fight you.


Seriously though this would take longer than just placing them and wrenching.

duncathan wrote:Also we're going to completely remove normal pipe dispensers as they currently are.

I will actually fight you.

Note: that meant the machine, not the RPD. The machine is a redundant relic whose purpose is completely achieved by the RPD. RPDs are player friendly; instead of leaving pipe dispensers we're gonna make RPDs the baseline. What would you want the big dispensers for, anyway?

duncathan wrote:Note: that meant the machine, not the RPD. The machine is a redundant relic whose purpose is completely achieved by the RPD. RPDs are player friendly; instead of leaving pipe dispensers we're gonna make RPDs the baseline. What would you want the big dispensers for, anyway?

Relics are great. Removing the pipe dispensers from atmos would be like removing mules from cargo! Besides, there are three atmos job slots + CE but only two RPDs.

RPDs recently got a buff by deploying/removing pipes almost instantly - and it was a REALLY strong tool to begin with.
Fastmos makes fires and breaches trivial to deal with.
Engineers now start with three RCDs with 160 matter charges EACH.
I can see quite a bit of a powercreep happening. Being a construction oriented job should require a bit more work than just one-click-magic with ONE tool.

Actionb wrote:Relics are great. Removing the pipe dispensers from atmos would be like removing mules from cargo!

Why are relics great? They're bloat. Pointless. Pipe dispensers are completely outclassed by the RPD. If you have an RPD, the pipe dispenser is useless.

Besides, there are three atmos job slots + CE but only two RPDs.

A perfectly legitimate complaint. That's why there's gonna be more. Personally, I'd like to add another atmos locker and add the RPD to the CE locker, as well as adding the lesser RPD I mentioned.

RPDs recently got a buff by deploying/removing pipes almost instantly - and it was a REALLY strong tool to begin with.

Oh, I know. I was the one who buffed it. I plan to buff it further.

Fastmos makes fires and breaches trivial to deal with.

Fires need a buff, and so does firefighting. I wanna see station-wide fires that get extinguished by the crew banding together and dealing with it, not by either calling the shuttle or waiting for the plasma to run out. As for breaches, fastmos doesn't really make them any easier to deal with as far as I can tell.

I can see quite a bit of a powercreep happening. Being a construction oriented job should require a bit more work than just one-click-magic with ONE tool.

Excuse me for the meme arrow, but
>powercreep
This isn't R&D getting countless newer and dealier toys. This is improving QOL. There's no gameplay reason to make construction take forever. The magic is in the product, not the process. Construction takes too long right now. This is especially true on sybil, where I often am unable to finish even the most basic of space-coolers for the waste loop. I've been playing atmos tech for years, now. It's currently the best it's ever been, and I plan to make it even better.

Only construction that should take time is r-walls and disposal pieces, because dealing with a load of them in an area is awful.
Watched a gang round where a gang won because they surrounded the dominator with disposal outlets and nobody could get to it.

Everything else should be pretty quick.

By the way buffing the RPD laying disposals was a total mistake on my part; I'd completely forgotten about laying dense things. A fix is on its way.

duncathan wrote: Excuse me for the meme arrow, but
>powercreep
This isn't R&D getting countless newer and dealier toys. This is improving QOL.

Powercreep maybe wasn't quite the right word for it. But you cannot deny that the RCD is the most powerful tool in the game (well, besides jackhammers now).
Its usefulness was previously limited by there being only one on board with rather limited charges and its fairly high production cost in both the item and its cartridges from the lathe. A RCD can utterly assrape AI sat defences or can be used as an emag for quick access.
RPDs can be hillariously overpowered if abused correctly. Please add a long construction delay to all disposals machinery (chutes, bins, etc.). Otherwise you will see atmos techs fleeing from sec while spamming chutes. Also make that machinery not block projectiles.

I agree that introducing the RCD to the engivend is a huge quality of life improvement for dutiful engineers, finally allowing them to use that tool as it was intended. At the same time, its immense usefulness annuls one important aspect of being an engineer: OF ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING.
Good example: replacing emagged airlocks. Instead of taking ca. two minutes for a robust engineer, it is done in 20 seconds with two clicks. Keep in mind, it's 20 seconds waiting for the RCD to do its job - you, the engineer, are not actually doing anything.

duncathan wrote: There's no gameplay reason to make construction take forever. The magic is in the product, not the process. Construction takes too long right now. This is especially true on sybil, where I often am unable to finish even the most basic of space-coolers for the waste loop. I've been playing atmos tech for years, now. It's currently the best it's ever been, and I plan to make it even better.

Why is construction actually taking up some of your time a bad thing? The process is even more important than the product. It's what engineers and atmos techs do. Constructing, i.e. spending time to build something. Having instant repairs & construction as engineer is like playing MD with a staff of healing - instead of having work to do you just go 'Now what...? '.

We used to be able to put floors on space tiles without the need of lattices. Construction steps on glass took no time at all. Deconstructing walls had one less step. Instant racks, tables, lockers. Infact, a lot of (de-)constructions have artificially been slowed down over the years. And I had assumed the coders had a certain purpose in mind.
Why does everything always have to go faster, better, harder, stronger..?

As for breaches, fastmos doesn't really make them any easier to deal with as far as I can tell.

One or two minutes after you have fixed the breach, the atmosphere will have normalized. Instead of the area being a freezing depressurized death zone that requires some atmosian attention, you can pretty much ignore any problems. I can't recall the last time I touched a space heater for anything but removing its cell. I use portable air pumps only for maxcap bomb zones. Areas that have been on fire, will have comfortable 30°C a few moments later.
Fastmos is to atmos what the defib is to genetics. Making your job more dull, but a lot of QoL for everyone else.

Engineering and atmos are already boring as fuck unless you engage autism mode. Stop adding features that require even less involvement.

You know what, I'm gonna stop talking about the RCD and engineers, because that's neither my preferred job nor what I plan to be touching. A lot of your points are solid there and it's pointless for me to try to rebut. I particularly agree with your point about removing construction steps.

As for the RPD...
I'm so sorry about the disposals thing, that's 100% my fuck-up. Besides that, though, it's not really overpowered. If I'm missing something that makes it so, let me know.
Otherwise, I believe that you're actually correct about fastmos being the real culprit here. Laying pipes was never the fun part of the job as atmos tech; it was watching your contraptions go and seeing the end result. The RPD lets you get through the boring, tedious bit, so you can do the cool stuff with air and pipes and components. It's fastmos speeding up the pipes themselves that messes things up.

Actionb wrote:
Why is construction actually taking up some of your time a bad thing? The process is even more important than the product. It's what engineers and atmos techs do. Constructing, i.e. spending time to build something. Having instant repairs & construction as engineer is like playing MD with a staff of healing - instead of having work to do you just go 'Now what...? '.

We used to be able to put floors on space tiles without the need of lattices. Construction steps on glass took no time at all. Deconstructing walls had one less step. Instant racks, tables, lockers. Infact, a lot of (de-)constructions have artificially been slowed down over the years. And I had assumed the coders had a certain purpose in mind.
Why does everything always have to go faster, better, harder, stronger..?

Slowing the whole game down was a mistake. For construction I kind of got the idea (don't allow people to fill a hallway full of tables), but I always felt there were better ways to solve that particular problem.

duncathan wrote:You know what, I'm gonna stop talking about the RCD and engineers, because that's neither my preferred job nor what I plan to be touching. A lot of your points are solid there and it's pointless for me to try to rebut. I particularly agree with your point about removing construction steps.

Yeah you're right. I've gotten side tracked there quite a bit, considering this thread is about faster pipe construction for more elaborate projects and not about the RCD.

duncathan wrote: As for the RPD...
I'm so sorry about the disposals thing, that's 100% my fuck-up. Besides that, though, it's not really overpowered. If I'm missing something that makes it so, let me know.

If it isn't the case already, would it be possible to allow lasers to pass over disposals machinery? I really do love the RPD, but it being able to shut down stuff like turrets, effectively becoming the new substitute for locker spam, feels somewhat cheesy. I have seen girders and computer frames not blocking lasers 100% of the time, maybe this could be done to chutes & co. as well?