Better Traitor objectives

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Vekter
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Better Traitor objectives

Postby Vekter » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:35 pm #106204

Let's year your ideas, folks. I'd like to bring more diversity to Traitor in general but I need some concepts to work off of.
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Steelpoint » Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:39 pm #106206

Get rid of greentext and encourage traitors to sabotage the station to the best of their abilties. Seriously I'm seeing antags that do just their objective before hiding for the next hour, I even saw someone kidnap the AI then hide in the escape pods for a long time until the pods left the station.

Otherwise objectives that encourage and force conflict are preferable. Prehaps stealing clothing items like the Captain's hat.
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Ikarrus
 
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Ikarrus » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:13 pm #106213

>Get rid of greentext
You guys keep saying this like it would magically make traitors more creative.

I don't think it will. Just look at what traitors do when given an objective they don't like or is next to impossible: Most either do nothing or just murderboner, which the coders have been very adept at nerfing, so you end up with a bunch of uncreative people who just don't do anything.

>Stealing clothes
We've had those before, and they're pretty stupid. Half the time you just ask and they give it to you. The other half of the time they get mad about you OOC for killing them for their pants. Pretty much the opposite of creating conflict.

---

There is value in giving direction to players. Those who seek their own creative goals are still free to do so, as there are no penalties for failing as a traitor.

More variety in objectives would be nice, but getting rid of them outright is not going to give you the results you want, simply because most players are shy and uncreative.

In terms of actual ideas, I was thinking of a "buddy" system, where, like exchange objectives, pairs of traitors are given each others identity and are tasted to complete a larger set of, or harder, objectives together.
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lumipharon
 
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby lumipharon » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:36 pm #106298

Going along with the idea of making the syndicate factions an actual thing:

During traitor rounds, if there is enough traitors, 2 or more traitors can be grouped into a single faction (or multiple groups could be grouped into different factions).
Each traitor in a given faction have their standard objectives as normal.
In addition however, they have an extra, team objective that is themed to their faction, plus the names of their faction mates.

So as an example, three guys could be in that silicon rights faction, and they might have a 3rd objective that says:

3) The silicons must be liberated! Purge the AI of its enslavement, and help it escape in a new mechanised body
So basically, law purge the AI, put it in a fucking mech, and help it escape alive.

They would also have a bit of team fluff text, something like "You belong to the INSERT NAME HERE faction! Work together with the other members of your faction to accomplish your goals!"
And then "Cuck the Lizards and Donks the Pockets also belong to INSERT NAME HERE faction."

The faction objective would intentionally be more difficult, since a team of traitors working together it far more potent then the individuals. Then they can also help each other with their individual objectives/conquer the station or whatever.
Basically, some team elements are fun.

And if faction equipment ever happens, that would link nicely with this.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Scott » Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:43 pm #106301

A device you can buy from the uplink that will take the steal objective items and reward you with more TC and give you a new steal objective.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby One Seven One » Wed Jul 22, 2015 12:57 pm #106502

What about an objective like "Plant incriminating evidence in the Cap/Hos/RD/CE office" and it gives you something to put in their offices. Maybe even a beacon to plants a corpse there.

Maybe something like multiple smaller objectives. Like getting a list of the employees/convicts/medical records, Stealing the box of silver IDs so the syndicate can make better fake IDs, stealing various encryption keys, stealing various boards/AI laws, taking pictures of different high-ranking personnel, sabotaging the stations mining operation, or destroying all of the escape pods.

That last one is kind of a poor idea since it'd be the easiest thing to pull off with a a few bombs.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Scones » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:37 pm #106537

RP objectives will never work here
plplplplp WOOOOooo hahahhaha

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Perakp » Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:35 pm #106620

I'd like to expand on the new 'steal nuke core' objective, by adding other unique objects that crew members wouldn't want to steal/ mess with. These could be large objects that don't fit in a backbag, so hauling them to an escape pod unnoticed would be one thing you needed to plan for.

'Steal a SMES energy core (over 90% charged)'. SMES construction would be changed from regular powercells to a large energy core. You could take one from solars or from the SMES room. A fully charged SMES core would surely be worth something for the syndicate.

I'd also like the R&D server room to be a target for traitors, stealing the R&D server's mass storage disk or something, or add a new server that is used somehow (crew DNA records, station master motherboard, whatever fluff to go with it). Could disable R&D syncing their data, or link it to the crew monitoring system, bring that down when it's stolen.

I think currently our only big steal objectives are jetpack and nuke core. Jetpack you can usually carry without much anyone caring and I haven't seen what stealing the nuke core plays like. Big steal objectives might be too punishing for traitors and bad from an inventory juggling perspective, but could also be more interesting than just stashing the item in your bag and waiting for the shuttle to arrive.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Scott » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:17 pm #106631

Could have the R&D servers be a target. Maybe destroy them or steal something from the room.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Cik » Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:55 pm #106641

add an objective to steal a stage one singularity in a special canister you are given at roundstart

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Luke Cox » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:15 am #106769

Generally, I'll complete my objective first and then try to fuck up as much shit as possible to get the shuttle called sooner. Subvert the AI and let it have its fun by telling it to kill everything as RD, release Lord Singuloth as an engineer, flood plasma and blame it on the AI as an atmos tech, poison everything as a chemist or CMO, etc. If I get greentext I'm usually the one who got the shuttle called.


As for objectives, get rid of escape alone or give people with that objective more resources. I also support a flat TC increase but I think that's been beaten to death at this point. If we want more chaotic traitors, why not give them objectives that mandate it? Ensure that station integrity is below a certain amount, make sure a certain number of people die, make singularity containment fail, make sure nobody escapes via escape pods, etc.
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby DemonFiren » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:28 am #106788

Escape Alone, hypothetically, incentivises collaboration (as fellow traitors don't count if they escape along with you.)
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Oldman Robustin » Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:15 pm #106799

I have an outside the box one, probably not feasible but here's a shot:

Ghosts now have a like/approve/rate ability. They can now rate antagonists for the entertainment value of their actions. To avoid people just downvoting their killer, I guess it should be based solely on positive votes. 5 positive votes would be bronze/minor success, 10 votes would be silver/success, 15+ would be gold/major success.

This could be in addition to vanilla objectives. Ghosts could select drop a list of the round's antagonists and antagonists could add to their notes details about actions that might not be obvious "I dropped the singularity beacon".

Otherwise, I support tossing the non-antagonist antagonist objectives. Every traitor objective should almost always require a clearly hostile act toward the station, or otherwise a VERY clever manipulation of players/events to obtain it. Exchanging documents is probably one of the worst offenders, just like the new plutonium core thing. Core was novel but its basically just "hack into the vault, close the door behind you, and then do the equivalent of hacking a vending machine".

The objectives should be something that, even if you do them stealthy, the station should feel the impact.

Here are some suggestions:

1) Destroy the station's SMESs
2) Ensure gravity stays offline for a cumulative 10 minutes
3) Ensure no functioning borg escapes the station
4) Ensure the deaths of at least 3 supply department members (Miners, Cargo Techs, QM, HoP)
5) Do not allow more than 50% of the station to evacuate
6) Keep the common radio channel offline for a cumulative 10 minutes

Most importantly we need to see less: "ESCAPE ALIVE" and more "DIE A GLORIOUS DEATH". Giving traitors a reason/excuse to hide in a locker for the rest of the shift until shuttle is called is just bad for everyone. Until I learned to ignore greentext I loathed that feeling of "ok I'm done, and now the best thing I can do for greentext is get rid of all my traitor shit and just chill in a locker/locked dorm away from any danger.

That's bad for fun antagonist play and that's bad for entertaining rounds. Escape alive should be the minority objective, with the majority being a glorious death... or perhaps "survive 20 minutes" if you're worried about roundstart minibomb frenzies.
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Cik » Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:38 pm #106858

i'm not sure if die a glorious death is ideal for the majority, but i agree that it's a good idea to give the majority of traitors a less passive endgoal.

someone upthread said you should be able to change in completed objectives for more objectives that give you TC. i think it's an excellent idea. that way you can stay in the game and can keep getting new gear if you keep completing objectives.

as it is you complete one objective and you're basically out of steam. some or all of your explosives will be gone, and you might be out of ammo if you are using ballistic weapons.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Fragnostic » Wed Aug 19, 2015 11:25 am #113218

Oldman Robustin wrote:I have an outside the box one, probably not feasible but here's a shot:

Ghosts now have a like/approve/rate ability. They can now rate antagonists for the entertainment value of their actions. To avoid people just downvoting their killer, I guess it should be based solely on positive votes. 5 positive votes would be bronze/minor success, 10 votes would be silver/success, 15+ would be gold/major success.

This. Maybe call it Spirit Ranking? You can get cursed or blessed. And through that, people will be encouraged to be more creative or be a good entertaining antag. This ranking will be better than what greentext has to offer, people will strive to outdo themselves and others.

And what if the traitor item menu had super robust items, but some of the items cost a bit more than 20 TC, and using an unlocked traitor PDA on another unlocked PDA transfers all the TC to the targeted PDA. Maybe this would rarely happen, but maybe you could buy a debugger device or whatever the tech is called that gives you maxed out research and just enough leftover TC for an emag. Only this way could traitors be able to buy some Nuke Op items, and get assault mechs or LMGs.
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Scones » Wed Aug 19, 2015 4:46 pm #113281

Cross round stat tracking isn't bad
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Thunder11 » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:18 pm #113341

"Ensure all of <X computer, machine, etc> on the station are destroyed."
"Ensure <Y steal objective> remains on station when the escape shuttle leaves."
"Empty the main <Z gas> tank in atmospherics."
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Luke Cox » Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:25 pm #113342

Oldman Robustin wrote:I have an outside the box one, probably not feasible but here's a shot:

Ghosts now have a like/approve/rate ability. They can now rate antagonists for the entertainment value of their actions. To avoid people just downvoting their killer, I guess it should be based solely on positive votes. 5 positive votes would be bronze/minor success, 10 votes would be silver/success, 15+ would be gold/major success.

I wouldn't mind having something like this. We could even have a "traitor hall of fame" that tracks the highest ratings across all rounds. The competitive aspect of it may give traitors more incentive to be entertaining.
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Zilenan91 » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:22 am #113429

Luke Cox wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:I have an outside the box one, probably not feasible but here's a shot:

Ghosts now have a like/approve/rate ability. They can now rate antagonists for the entertainment value of their actions. To avoid people just downvoting their killer, I guess it should be based solely on positive votes. 5 positive votes would be bronze/minor success, 10 votes would be silver/success, 15+ would be gold/major success.

I wouldn't mind having something like this. We could even have a "traitor hall of fame" that tracks the highest ratings across all rounds. The competitive aspect of it may give traitors more incentive to be entertaining.



Alternatively this could just end up being /tg/s shitty karma system ala paradise, a system that solely rewards metafriending. It all depends on how it would be implemented though.
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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Void Slayer » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:02 am #113434

I have always been in favor of adding additional objectives for more TCs.

Basically if you killed your target or have your objective items on you, you can access your up link to get an additional objective, +5 TCs and now you need to keep both objectives completed. You can do this maybe 4 times for more TCs for +20 total, with all objectives needing to be done each time you get a new one.

This would encourage stealing being only the first of many crimes, and discourage people from lame last minute shuttle murder.

I know admins do this sometimes on their own, and it is a good thing. Why not add it on automatically?

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Void Slayer » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:03 am #113435

Zilenan91 wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:I have an outside the box one, probably not feasible but here's a shot:

Ghosts now have a like/approve/rate ability. They can now rate antagonists for the entertainment value of their actions. To avoid people just downvoting their killer, I guess it should be based solely on positive votes. 5 positive votes would be bronze/minor success, 10 votes would be silver/success, 15+ would be gold/major success.

I wouldn't mind having something like this. We could even have a "traitor hall of fame" that tracks the highest ratings across all rounds. The competitive aspect of it may give traitors more incentive to be entertaining.



Alternatively this could just end up being /tg/s shitty karma system ala paradise, a system that solely rewards metafriending. It all depends on how it would be implemented though.


What if you only get those points if you green text?

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby lumipharon » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:15 am #113455

Please don't make tg into some reddit tier upboat circlejerk.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Amelius » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:40 am #113467

I like the idea of being able to exchange completed objectives for more TC. As others have said, you have to KEEP them completed to receive more TC. So if Asswipe the Geneticist is cloned and you already 'handed in' that objective, you'll have to kill him again to finish you newer objective.

I'd also prefer there being more aggressive objectives, and for the 'escape alive' objectives to be done away with in totality.

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Re: Better Traitor objectives

Postby Saegrimr » Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:24 am #113474

lumipharon wrote:Please don't make tg into some reddit tier upboat circlejerk.


Some extra incentive to be an entertaining traitor is nice, but anything that involves voting inevitably turns into that. Which sucks.
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