Hardsuits for the RD and CMO!

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:42 pm #120546

Bottom post of the previous page:

There's a big difference between a suit on the other side of the station, and a suit in your office.

That said, I do think the CMO should get the medical hardsuit, to like, you know, do medical things when there's no air (which is often).

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:47 am #120561

I feel like crying. It seems that the only thing to come from this thread will probably be the CMO getting the hardsuit, and nothing changing for the RD at all...

Post by **lumipharon** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:06 am #120565

RD can just telesci anything in space, suits are for peasants.

Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:13 am

Gun Hog wrote:I feel like crying. It seems that the only thing to come from this thread will probably be the CMO getting the hardsuit, and nothing changing for the RD at all...

why does the rd even need a space suit
and dont say "because almost every other head has one" because that doesnt actually mean anything

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:27 am #120569

Why does the CMO need a hardsuit? Why does the HOS need a hardsuit?

The only head that is actually justified in having a personal spacesuit is the CE.

AnonymousNow · Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:46 am

I'm glad that the CMO's (long, long overdue) spacesuit is being added.

In regards to the RD, it leaves me to think of an old suggestion which garnered much support, and then never got mentioned again - the equipment, and capability, for a station to have a one-man-per-major-department away team in thematic suits.

Why not just add what is usually the RD's spacesuit of choice, the NASA Voidsuit, to research? You could fiddle with its values and remove Head of Staff EVA, then. No net number change, none of these (unsubstantiated) complaints of space being trivialised.

Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:51 am

Scott wrote:Why does the CMO need a hardsuit? Why does the HOS need a hardsuit?

The only head that is actually justified in having a personal spacesuit is the CE.

1. to recover spaced corpses/recover corpses from bomb breaches (which isnt even necessary, i dont even know why people want a cmo hardsuit so badly but hey at least they have an okay reason for it)
2. so that sec doesn't instantly lose as soon as a traitor with a space suit shows up
did you really not know that

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:32 am #120595

Since people are questioning the justifications for each, here they are:

CE: Obvious, nobody questions this
HoS: Because traitor spacesuits and ops are a thing. Sec needs a way to pursue criminals in space.
CMO: Dead bodies show up in space all the time
RD: For when Toxins inevitably blows something up

Note that all the heads of staff already have access to spacesuits. OP is merely suggesting that the two available spacesuits be specialized for the CMO and RD.

lumipharon wrote:There's a big difference between a suit on the other side of the station, and a suit in your office.

That said, I do think the CMO should get the medical hardsuit, to like, you know, do medical things when there's no air (which is often).

If it's that big of a problem, just replace the two suits in Command EVA with the CMO and RD suits.

newfren · Post by **newfren** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:56 am #120597

Stickymayhem wrote:Make space worthy chems you h u g b o x medfags

Any CMO that can't make leporazine, styptic, and silver sulf without looking at a guide should be job banned.

That said making those drains your chem dispensers and takes some time so whatever.

Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:28 am

Luke Cox wrote:RD: For when Toxins inevitably blows something up

that's a terrible reason honestly
by that logic you should give everybody down to assistants space suits

Not-Dorsidarf · Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:02 am

Luke Cox wrote:Since people are questioning the justifications for each, here they are:

HoS: Because traitor spacesuits and ops are a thing. Sec needs a way to pursue criminals in space.

Thats what the sec hardsuits are for, dingus.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:36 am #120657

CMO has had access to a space suit for ages, in command EVA. He doesn't need a hard suit to recover corpses, because he already has a soft suit.

Likewise, HOS has access to the ones in the armoury. Since he's one of only two sec people with armoury access, more often than not he ends up using it.

The only thing that's different which is being proposed here is the RD suit (because that would be bombproof, and the only spaceworthy bomb suit on station AFAIK). bomb suits right now are a bit shit, because if you get blown up it can easily be the space wind and pressure that kills you, not the actual bomb.

The RD hardsuit is a reasonable idea, because it creates gameplay changes. The other two are just adding unnecessary hardsuits to the game, while at the same time removing the soft suits for command staff that don't get one (like the HOP) and for everyone that breaks into command EVA (like everyone in malf). The only argument I've seen for a medical hardsuit is, as far as I can tell, that because it exists in the game and has a nice sprite the CMO ought to use it. Because he can already recover corpses.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:40 am #120658

A Medical Hardsuit would make it quicker and easier for the CMO to act in dangerous environments to rescue and recover people trapped in space, being proactive means you have to run to the other side of the station, get into Command EVA, suit up and then run to the nearest airlock you can access. Whereas being able to immediently suit up in your office is far quicker which means a faster response time.

The RD suit being space proof is needed because when it comes to surviving bombs in a bomb suit its usually the space and space wind that kills you and not the explosion. You still get knocked out by the bomb and while you might be alive your still dying to space exposure. The RD being able to resist that (if he's quick) is fair.

The HoS hardsuit is more harder to justify, in addition I have a clear HoS bias towards him. Nonetheless the reasons why Security have hardsuit access have been well explained.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Steelpoint wrote:A Medical Hardsuit would make it quicker and easier for the CMO to act in dangerous environments to rescue and recover people trapped in space, being proactive means you have to run to the other side of the station, get into Command EVA, suit up and then run to the nearest airlock you can access. Whereas being able to immediently suit up in your office is far quicker which means a faster response time.

The RD suit being space proof is needed because when it comes to surviving bombs in a bomb suit its usually the space and space wind that kills you and not the explosion. You still get knocked out by the bomb and while you might be alive your still dying to space exposure. The RD being able to resist that (if he's quick) is fair.

The HoS hardsuit is more harder to justify, in addition I have a clear HoS bias towards him. Nonetheless the reasons why Security have hardsuit access have been well explained.

People left in space will always die before you suit up and slowly tramp across the station to wherever the hole is and fill them with mix. The only way a medical hardsuit would work is if it went into the CMO's backpack and he spent the whole round in the medbay lobby with a pocket full of "survive in space"-mix, waiting for the bomb to go off so he can rush there with epiphrene at sanic speed, get into the breach, and /maybe/ get the guy out alive.

Most people who survive breaches in crit are pulled out by the bystanders.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:24 pm #120670

Besides, good luck getting someone out of a big hull breach fast without some sort of anti-wind system, like magboots.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:08 pm #120681

Why does everyone need access to extremely easy suits (which they already have in command eva)? Dying in vacuum exposed hallways desperately trying to reach eva, only to discover it is already looted is very much part of the fun.

Fragnostic · Post by **Fragnostic** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 4:58 pm #120713

CPTANT wrote:Why does everyone need access to extremely easy suits (which they already have in command eva)? Dying in vacuum exposed hallways desperately trying to reach eva, only to discover it is already looted is very much part of the fun.

The proposal is only to give Heads of Staff a much needed hardsuit. Sec has them for their goddamned officers, why not RD and CMO who have actual uses for them besides 'GET DEM VALIDZ'?
CMO will retrieve bodies floating just outside the station, RD will defuse bombs, manage bomb retrieval, and other EOD/hazmat duties. In exchange, remove Reactive Teleport armor for RD.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 7:04 pm #120734

Fragnostic wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Why does everyone need access to extremely easy suits (which they already have in command eva)? Dying in vacuum exposed hallways desperately trying to reach eva, only to discover it is already looted is very much part of the fun.
The proposal is only to give Heads of Staff a much needed hardsuit. Sec has them for their goddamned officers, why not RD and CMO who have actual uses for them besides 'GET DEM VALIDZ'?
CMO will retrieve bodies floating just outside the station, RD will defuse bombs, manage bomb retrieval, and other EOD/hazmat duties. In exchange, remove Reactive Teleport armor for RD.

How is a hardsuit much needed for the CMO or RD WHEN THEY ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO SPACESUITS?

And good job reducing sec to "get dem validz" again. Sec actually having a way to prevent the armory from getting looted for the millionth time is of course such powergaming. And actually officers don't even have access to the suits. Only the warden and HoS have access to them.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:32 pm #120747

Understand that there's also a cosmetic element to this. The CMO hardsuit is essentially just a spacesuit with a light on the helmet. The RD hardsuit is the only one that includes any real new functions.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:Since people are questioning the justifications for each, here they are:

HoS: Because traitor spacesuits and ops are a thing. Sec needs a way to pursue criminals in space.

Thats what the sec hardsuits are for, dingus.

And those offer less protection. It's the HoS, it makes sense that it should be slightly more armored, just like the coat.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:20 pm #120926

TL;DR summary of proposal:
- Add RD hardsuit, which is a space suit + bombsuit + emergency firesuit.
- Add Medical hardsuit to Box map for the CMO. It has a lesser slowdown. (already PR'ed)
- Remove command EVA, keeping the total space suit count equal.

Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:18 pm

i still don't see why the RD needs a hardsuit

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 2:41 am #121104

CMO has a reason to have a suit, savin plebs in hostile environments.

RD does not. Bombs have the firing range to explode at - if you somehow fuck up massively and blow up science, that's a job for engineering to fix, not the RD.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:37 am #121160

lumipharon wrote:CMO has a reason to have a suit, savin plebs in hostile environments.

RD does not. Bombs have the firing range to explode at - if you somehow fuck up massively and blow up science, that's a job for engineering to fix, not the RD.

RD already has a suit, we just want to make it pretty and give it some bomb protection. Why is it so fucking hard for you people to get it through your heads that BOTH THE CMO AND RD ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO SPACESUITS, AND THE HOS HAS HIS OWN SUIT ON META. This will not give EVA to people who don't have it already. Most of this is just flavor and aesthetics.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 7:41 am #121161

In addition its removing the two command EVA suits and just giving them to the CMO and RD. So its not adding in any more suits to the station.

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Sep 25, 2015 8:05 am

Luke Cox wrote:
lumipharon wrote:CMO has a reason to have a suit, savin plebs in hostile environments.

RD does not. Bombs have the firing range to explode at - if you somehow fuck up massively and blow up science, that's a job for engineering to fix, not the RD.
RD already has a suit, we just want to make it pretty and give it some bomb protection. Why is it so fucking hard for you people to get it through your heads that BOTH THE CMO AND RD ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO SPACESUITS, AND THE HOS HAS HIS OWN SUIT ON META. This will not give EVA to people who don't have it already. Most of this is just flavor and aesthetics.

Hardsuits are objectively better than spacesuits in every single way. Plus people want to put it in their actual office or something.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 12:02 pm #121200

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:
lumipharon wrote:CMO has a reason to have a suit, savin plebs in hostile environments.

RD does not. Bombs have the firing range to explode at - if you somehow fuck up massively and blow up science, that's a job for engineering to fix, not the RD.
RD already has a suit, we just want to make it pretty and give it some bomb protection. Why is it so fucking hard for you people to get it through your heads that BOTH THE CMO AND RD ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO SPACESUITS, AND THE HOS HAS HIS OWN SUIT ON META. This will not give EVA to people who don't have it already. Most of this is just flavor and aesthetics.
Hardsuits are objectively better than spacesuits in every single way. Plus people want to put it in their actual office or something.

Whats so much better about hardsuits except the hardsuit specific (like rad protection for engineering, fire protection for atmos) bonuses?

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

CPTANT wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:
lumipharon wrote:CMO has a reason to have a suit, savin plebs in hostile environments.

RD does not. Bombs have the firing range to explode at - if you somehow fuck up massively and blow up science, that's a job for engineering to fix, not the RD.
RD already has a suit, we just want to make it pretty and give it some bomb protection. Why is it so fucking hard for you people to get it through your heads that BOTH THE CMO AND RD ALREADY HAVE ACCESS TO SPACESUITS, AND THE HOS HAS HIS OWN SUIT ON META. This will not give EVA to people who don't have it already. Most of this is just flavor and aesthetics.
Hardsuits are objectively better than spacesuits in every single way. Plus people want to put it in their actual office or something.
Whats so much better about hardsuits except the hardsuit specific (like rad protection for engineering, fire protection for atmos) bonuses?

You only have to carry around the suit, rather than a suit and helmet, and they have built-in plash protection, and have less slowdown than EVA suits.

Oh and most of them have more armor but I don't think the proposal includes damage armor on these ones.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 1:17 pm #121220

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: You only have to carry around the suit, rather than a suit and helmet, and they have built-in plash protection, and have less slowdown than EVA suits.

Oh and most of them have more armor but I don't think the proposal includes damage armor on these ones.

Having the helmet inside the suit was part of a nerf by Paprika to stop people taking only the helmet for its protections without the downsides of wearing the suit (heavy slowdown).

EVA suits and station hardsuits have the same base slowdown of 2, the only exception to on-station space suits would be the medical hardsuit at a slowdown of 1, its only advantage.

My proposal for the RD's suit [melee = 10, bullet = 5, laser = 10, energy = 5, bomb = 100, bio = 100, rad = 60] offers no combat related increases over the base hardsuit. It is a bomb suit, emergency firesuit, and slightly higher radiation. These values are based entirely on my typical experiences as RD, within my own department.

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:11 pm

Gun Hog wrote:
Not-Dorsidarf wrote: You only have to carry around the suit, rather than a suit and helmet, and they have built-in plash protection, and have less slowdown than EVA suits.

Oh and most of them have more armor but I don't think the proposal includes damage armor on these ones.
Having the helmet inside the suit was part of a nerf by Paprika to stop people taking only the helmet for its protections without the downsides of wearing the suit (heavy slowdown).

It wasn't a nerf to hardsuits by paprika, it was a nerf to powergamers. The actual hardsuits became better for the change

Scones · Post by **Scones** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:13 pm #121274

I miss helmets being separate.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:41 pm #121310

I think what I am going to do, is PR the RD hardsuit, and if that makes it through the gauntlet that is Github PRs, I will request a PR which adds them to the map. At the very least, I am hoping I can get it on the Metastation map, which already contains the Medical Hardsuit for the CMO. It might get flooded with anti-comments, it might get closed, but I have little to lose by trying.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 2:01 am #121349

Gun Hog wrote:I think what I am going to do, is PR the RD hardsuit, and if that makes it through the gauntlet that is Github PRs, I will request a PR which adds them to the map. At the very least, I am hoping I can get it on the Metastation map, which already contains the Medical Hardsuit for the CMO. It might get flooded with anti-comments, it might get closed, but I have little to lose by trying.

Best of luck. All I can say is that the autism is real.

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:18 am #121388

as much as i understand the desire for space to be dangerous i really think everybody should arrive on the shuttle with a standard eva suit in there hands that way that can put it in there workplace so they have a chance of being near one when everything goes to shit.

theres suspension of disbelief and then theres a space station without enough spacesuits for all the crew

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:24 am #121389

and as much as i know that there would be very very few people that agree with me on the above i cant be the only one that thinks medical should get several harduits in medbay storage its argurably needed more then the cmo needs one the cmo is not meant to be a paramedic.

Sun Sep 27, 2015 1:32 am

@tuypo1

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32

tuypo1 · Post by **tuypo1** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:08 am #121531

i know give everybody on station a suit is a shit idea but i stand by what i say about medbay needing some the cmo does need a suit but the other doctors need them even more cmo is not a paramedic with a decently staffed medbay the only times the cmo should leave his department are something injuring a lot of people in one place, a bunch of wounded scatered around the station so help cant get to them in time otherwise as the docters are to busy in other parts of the station, teaching the new guy or going to the bridge (these arent things you should go out of your way to do im making a case for medbay storage getting a pair of spacesuits not writing a guide to cmo) the cmo still needs a suit as the main thing that causes those mass woundings is bombs but bombs arent the main cause of patients in low pressure enviroments for those situations doctors need spacesuits. (i would put this next part in a new paragraph but my phone is shit) on the topic of of med spacesuits its vital they not be able to hold defibs in exosuit storage.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:55 am #121533

Please try to write more coherently. Your posts are painful to read.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Gun Hog wrote:Please try to write more coherently. Your posts are painful to read.

but why would he need to type coherntly in tgstauin|1Z dont you no that twhrtn on the itnernwebs everything is erasily chohent and very good to read also I like tjhis suiggestion )1

Mon Oct 05, 2015 11:07 pm

there's a line and you've clearly crossed it

Void Slayer · Post by **Void Slayer** » Thu Oct 08, 2015 6:25 am #124247

Uhhh if you want to safely get the bombs, just get heat aura from genetics and grab a bombsuit.

RDs should know this stuff.