Low pop murderboner/armory/no sec

[onleavedontatme]

So low pop murderboner has always been a problem. (And I know I'm a broken record but slower speed made guns a lot stronger, and the crew has less stuns, so unarmed people are at a major disadvantage).

Autorifles+the backpack changes that let you hold hundreds of rounds of ammo have not helped much either.

So what can we do, other than having an admin spawn an ERT every time a traitor walks into an empty armory and loads up on a thousand rounds of ammo to kill everyone?

Despawn some of the armory at low pop? Something crazy like all crew getting a shitty gun? Prevent certain things that are hard for unarmed crew to fight (like adrenals) on low pop?

Hopefully someone has better ideas than I do.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Low pop greytiding the armory and becoming a vigilante can remedy this problem.

[TheNightingale]

Rule One bwoink the murderboner-er when they kill everyone without calling the shuttle?

Spoiler:

We could always make going out of your way to murder people for no raisin disallowed. If they're your target or in your way, or you have some grievance against them, all bets are off, though.

[Miauw]

not having lowpop fixes this issue.

ss13 isnt fun with populations that are out of the range 25 to 50, imo. lowpop murderboner is just a small part in that.

if there is no sec, you can also just revolver people to death, the armory isnt even a necessity.

[Scones]

The solution is to not have lowpop.

However population-based Armory scaling would be interesting if someone wanted to take a crack at it.

[CPTANT]

The solution is to not have lowpop.

However population-based Armory scaling would be interesting if someone wanted to take a crack at it.

Tricky when at certain times the population literally doubles or triples during a round.

[PKPenguin321]

Rule One bwoink the murderboner-er when they kill everyone without calling the shuttle?

Spoiler:

We could always make going out of your way to murder people for no raisin disallowed. If they're your target or in your way, or you have some grievance against them, all bets are off, though.

nah, traitors are exempt from this kind of thing and if you recall the last time they tried to make traitors not allowed to murderbone at all, you'll remember that it was shit

[Steelpoint]

The game is designed around there being not only a certain level of population but also some members of security.

If antagonists on lower pop actually realised that many low pop rounds have no sec the round would end in a blood bath much quicker, fortunately that's not the case.

[invisty]

Scale antagonists by round start sec+cap+hop count :3

That'd get people playing.

[Steelpoint]

If you want more security players then encourage people to play security.

I think the security rules being relaxed heavily (which did happen) will be a major contributor in helping bring people back into playing security. By not being under such strain and being able to better act under your own free will is a positive change.

I can't recall if antagonist selection was changed to give people with a security role set to high a equal chance as anyone else or not, but if that's not the case I think changing it so your antagonist position is picked before your job selection would be a great change.

Scaling antagonists by security is a bad idea, I won't rant on it but I'll summate in that if you did the math with how many round start officers there are you could figure out how many possible antagonists there would be. It would also likely force people to play security.

No one should be forced to play security, the Captain gets away with it since more often than not you need a Captain in a round.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

This should be in the feedback forum really.

[Tornadium]

Even at 60+ pop, less than 3 Security at round start is pretty damn common.

[callanrockslol]

The game is designed around there being not only a certain level of population but also some members of security.

If antagonists on lower pop actually realised that many low pop rounds have no sec the round would end in a blood bath much quicker, fortunately that's not the case.

There was usually more antag lynching going on by the crew rather than sec when everyone could roll around with stungloves at sanic speed and would just wreck them with their own gear.

[onleavedontatme]

Still a big problem I think. Two rounds in a row I was able to just walk in via emag and fit every single gun in my bag/on my belt or armour.

Adding adrenals to this just makes it more unfair/unlikely that anyone is gonna stop you.

Maybe the problem is how many guns a single person can hold. Maybe its the unstun button with zero drawbacks. Still shouldnt have almost every real gun in a single room.

[Zilenan91]

One egun behind a shutter in every departmental sec checkpoint? That's what people were suggesting with shotguns.

[Raven776]

Adrenals aren't TOO OP. Just headbottle them and light them on fire. It's hilarious. Most lowpop murderboners are too silly to even grab a helmet.

Fire makes every situation better, and it's a tool almost anyone can get access to.

[TheNightingale]

It's quite hard to headbottle them if you can't get in melee range without being stunned and/or gunned down. Earlier today we had Amelius with an L6 (summon guns - they were a survivor) and reactive armour killing about half the crew before the borgs got them. (Reactive armour is remarkably good.)

People will always find ways to kill everyone, even if we make it harder. A policy solution might be needed - "Don't go out of your way to murderbone". (Of course, then you get the "Y-you can't restrict antags! Git gud!" crowd complaining.)

[Wyzack]

Still a big problem I think. Two rounds in a row I was able to just walk in via emag and fit every single gun in my bag/on my belt or armour.

Adding adrenals to this just makes it more unfair/unlikely that anyone is gonna stop you.

Maybe the problem is how many guns a single person can hold. Maybe its the unstun button with zero drawbacks. Still shouldnt have almost every real gun in a single room.

Why dont we do that thing i suggested like a gorilion years ago and make lasers more powerful but make them require two hands like the chainsaw. That way a single douche cant take all of them in one trip

[Steelpoint]

Most of the time on lower pop rounds all it would take is a few seconds for someone with a emag to loot the entire armoury as there's no one in there to defend it.

[invisty]

IMO the armoury ought to take time to loot.

Why not put all the guns in little fire-axe style locking units that can be unlocked with sec-level access or with a multitool? (or "break in emergency!").

[Zilenan91]

Or just put the guns all in little safes. All you'd need is a multitool to reset the combination for them with the Warden being able to set their combos at round start.


We could also port the gun cases from Hippie. They're essentially locked lockers, they get unlocked with armory access, then by clicking on them you draw a gun out of them, to close right click, swipe ID to lock. Reason being is that they jut look so much better than having all our guns in this weird pile if we were to put them in a locker.

[lumipharon]

As others have said, this is first and foremost a pop issue.

I don't think you can game mechanics wise ever make the game balanced well for both low pop and high pop in this regard.

But I also think admins telling people to stop being shitter murderboners in lowpop under rule 1 should be considered.
Lowpop murderbone is fun for typically 1 fucking person, while everyone else sits in deadchat for 90 minutes watching them stroke their throbbing boner, or simply leaving.

[Steelpoint]

Last time someone tried to put the armoury guns inside locked lockers it resulted in a massive flame war and the PR being closed by the author.

Seriously, for the amount of salt produced from trying to put the guns in a locker, not even a fucking lockable one, its simply not worth the effort.

[Steelpoint]

I swear people on one hand detest how easy it is to break in and steal all the armoury's guns, yet they go mad when someone tried to put the guns in a locker spouting along the lines how its some kind of god given right that the guns should be easy to steal or something once someone is in the armoury.

[Incomptinence]

Obviously they want the happy middle ground of having no armoury at all, hell no sec tasers either so they can show how robust their assistant is with improvised stuff in peace.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Its a big ask, but install a turret into the armoury that fires rubber bullets/stun bullets via a built in stun revolver (switchable?) with the warden + Sec/Cap having access to the turret wall console similar to the AI upload (If the HoP gives themselves access too, but if they do that they are probably valid anyway and should be shot)

It wont work on sleeping carp gang members for balance but It'll stop syndicate agent and most antag rushing meta and save the warden a little extra work. There are often enough racks in the armoury to keep shooting unobstructed, the only issue is targeting distance as it would need to cover the armoury area and not shoot outside of those confines into the surrounding rooms depending on map especially if using bullet ammo you dont want to break any glass.

[oranges]

just spawn everyone with a .357 revolver in low pop

if everyone has guns then criminals will be stopped

checkmate liberals.

[Gun Hog]

This can be potentially solved with map rotation. For low-population, use a map with a more secure armory and more securitrons which replace the human security force. For high population, we can keep things as we have them now. There is no good way to balance this aspect for all population levels. It is better to use a differently balanced map to deal with a different population level, rather than try to balance it for all levels, and end up making it universally poor across the board.

[Shaps-cloud]

There's no real way to make raiding the armory impotent enough to stop murderbones with it at lowpop, yet keep the armory effective during highpop short of scaling the number of guns. I'd agree that dedicated lowpop maps would be a good solution, but then we'd still have issues on the current maps

[Super Aggro Crag]

all guns in the armory are stripped and have to be completely reassembled before being fireable.

[Zilenan91]

We could make there be a plasma cutter in the armory at round start so proactive wardens can put loyalty pins in the guns instead of electric pins.

[Steelpoint]

It would be easier, and less viable to """"unbalance"""" rnd research to just make a unique item that has the ability to remove firing pins and put that in the armoury.

But again, the salt.

[invisty]

We could make there be a plasma cutter in the armory at round start so proactive wardens can put loyalty pins in the guns instead of electric pins.

Just let players freely change the firing pin in the weapon by pushing a new one in where the old one is.

Naturally, there should be a shortage of loyalty firing pins (say 3?), and they would require the warden to hand them out. These two factors would make "killing a sec officer for their taser" a bit unpredictable.

[Gun Hog]

I could drop the tech requirements for loyalty firing pins from Combat 6 to Combat 5, to make them more common. Sec would probably be more likely to take pre-pinned weapons as well. I predict a great amount of backlash if I do this, however. It could be considered a nerf to conversion based antagonists.

[TheNightingale]

Give Combat 7 a Dredd firing pin that explodes when anyone other than the original user touches it, and a loyalty pin Origin Tech of Combat 6. So if you can get a hold of combat shotguns and decon them for a loyalty pin, you can then decon that for Combat 7... and explosive DNA pins.

[callanrockslol]

Give Combat 7 a Dredd firing pin that explodes when anyone other than the original user touches it, and a loyalty pin Origin Tech of Combat 6. So if you can get a hold of combat shotguns and decon them for a loyalty pin, you can then decon that for Combat 7... and explosive DNA pins.

Yes.

Also ban lowpop murderboner.

[Steelpoint]

I thought loyalty pins were combat 6 already?

[lumipharon]

their origin is 5.

Also we already have dredd pins in the game afaik, they're just admin only.

[Saegrimr]

Semi related there's also the "ultra funny clown pin" or something like that which explodes and honks if anybody but the clown fires it.

[Gun Hog]

The Loyalty Firing Pin has no origin tech, no pins do - this is likely an oversight.

In order to build a firing pin, you must have Combat 6, Materials 6, and Power 3. It takes silver, uranium, and diamond as materials.

My proposal is to lower its combat requirement from 6 to 5, making it much easier to get. The diamond requirement will still keep it quite restricted however, as the less robust miners often deposit everything except diamond.

[onleavedontatme]

>emag into armory
>take the loyalty implant box
>take every gun and the crew can't do jack shit to stop you because they aren't even allowed to use guns if they get their hands on them now
>can't easily hand out guns for blob/xenos/away missions/anti nuke op militias

Just causes more problems

[Helios]

How about an unrecallable shuttle is called after 75% of the station is killed. That means if enough people get murderboned then they won't have to wait too long, about 16 minutes for a new round.

[Lumbermancer]

Make a trigger that will cause NT to call out the murderer through announcement after certain check is passed. if population <50% and dead population 50%=> and security <2 then "Hello station, you seem to have murderboner problem, the murderer is %antag's name% he currently is at %location%. Also we are calling the shuttle".

Or something.

[Jacough]

How about an unrecallable shuttle is called after 75% of the station is killed. That means if enough people get murderboned then they won't have to wait too long, about 16 minutes for a new round.

I had an idea for a GTA event a while back where as crew members started dying increasingly stronger security forces would start popping up on the station. Maybe make it so as players start dying there's an increasing chance of spawning a four man ERT with a max of three ERTs per round? Good way of encouraging discretion and preparation before going loud. Also gets people back in the round as well.

[Steelpoint]

How about some shitty system where there are 'automated station security measures' that only take effect based on round type and population still alive.

So certain game modes (Anything outside of Traitor or Pure Changeling) can spawn in security systems as the population dies off.

So for example, if 25% of the crew die the station may deploy three Securitron's around the station set to patrol and arrest anyone based on weapon ID's. If 50% of the crew die turrets may appear at key junctions.

Whatever.

Realisticly low pop murderbone can only be solved with admins, if there are no admins on then your out of luck.

[Helios]

I mean, the auto shuttle call is technically a solution.

[imblyings]

auto shuttle call at a certain percentage of dead, below a certain total pop threshold maybe the one where ID's get extra access.

also oranges idea is alright, give everyone revolvers. An armed society is a polite one.

[lumipharon]

Yeah, making loyalty pins easier to get doesn't address this issue at all sine 99% of people that lelstealarmourymurderbonelowpop just use emags.

[Lumbermancer]

also oranges idea is alright, give everyone revolvers. An armed society is a polite one.

Except the lack of consequences.

[callanrockslol]

How about an unrecallable shuttle is called after 75% of the station is killed. That means if enough people get murderboned then they won't have to wait too long, about 16 minutes for a new round.

auto shuttle call at a certain percentage of dead, below a certain total pop threshold maybe the one where ID's get extra access.

Do this.